Over oil a gun?

[Insp Evans]

Many years ago (during my Army days), we were turning in M-14s for storage. First, we had to get all the oil off of any surface. I mean they checked it with a white glove and even the slightest amount of grease or dirt meant you had to start over.

After we got the M-14s oil-free, then we had to slobber as much oil over the metal as we could get to stick.

I wouldn't do that myself, but that's what the Army folks had us do. I suspect the wood did soak up oil, but maybe that was part of the expected effect. Don't forget, old timers used to rub many, many coats of coal oil (kerosene) into their wood stocks to keep the water out. Plus you could have a dandy fire if you needed one.

I've had very good luck with long term storage of metal things with LPS3. Not quite as nasty as cosmoline, but works as well.

 

[Jim K]

With all respect, I don't think they used coal oil (or at least they should not have). More likely they used linseed oil which won't rot the wood and still provides an excellent means of waterproofing a wood stock.

Jiim

 

[Bula]

I'm a little confused. Do some really oil to the point of dripping wet? I bet most clean and wipe down with an oiled patch on friction parts. Not sure I know ANY shooter that pours 3 ounces of oil into an action between mags. Seems kind of obvious to most I'd think. If lube is dripping, you are doing it wrong. With the exception of oil migrating to the trigger for a slight wipe down. Long term storage for me just means I revisit an unfired firearms for a field strip and a fresh wipe down with an oiled patch and maybe an oiled qtip. This is especially true for carried a lot and shot few firearms. I love YouTube, but this argument just confuses me. We're (for the most part) smarter than this.

 

[Warp]

I'm a little confused. Do some really oil to the point of dripping wet? I bet most clean and wipe down with an oiled patch on friction parts. Not sure I know ANY shooter that pours 3 ounces of oil into an action between mags. Seems kind of obvious to most I'd think. If lube is dripping, you are doing it wrong. With the exception of oil migrating to the trigger for a slight wipe down. Long term storage for me just means I revisit an unfired firearms for a field strip and a fresh wipe down with an oiled patch and maybe an oiled qtip. This is especially true for carried a lot and shot few firearms. I love YouTube, but this argument just confuses me. We're (for the most part) smarter than this.

"...More importantly, the need for lubrication is huge. I am known for a lack of maintenance to my weapon systems. I do joke about this; however, if you look at my weapons, they are all lubed above and beyond the normal mount. I keep the barrels extremely clean, and the rest of the weapon well lubed. If the weapon is to be carried daily, I still apply generous amounts of lubrication, not excessive , but very generous. This results in a few clothes ending up with oil stains. This is just the price of doing business with a weapon"

-SGM Kyle E Lamb
Stay in the Fight


FWIW



..highly recommended BTW, I'll add that and link it since I quoted a paragraph

http://www.amazon.com/Fight-Warrior...8363/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454383632&sr=8-1

 

[Valkman]

Back when I shot Bullseye we ran 'em very wet with no ill effects. I would not do that where wood stocks would get wet or striker channels get oil in them. I've never run my guns that wet with oil since but when I sold a Ruger MKII with many thousands of rounds through it the buyer swore it had never been fired.

 

[susieqz]

on the other hand, i keep all my weapos dry n they work fine.
what does that tell you?

 

[Warp]

on the other hand, i keep all my weapos dry n they work fine.
what does that tell you?

Well...who are you? What weapons? What uses? Can you tell us what you mean by dry? Cleaning frequency?

 

[Gun Master]

What It Tells Me ?

You're a high plains dryer/drifter.
If it works for you, great.

Otherwise, if it's not dripping, oil is fine.
Lube but also clean, and don't let it collect dust/gunk/sludge.

 

[susieqz]

yeah, high plains means no rust worries
but for how the guns function, they do fine n i wipe off all the oil i can.
revolver, semi auto n rifle.
when i'm working with a gun, that means 300 rounds/week.
revolver gets cleaned weekly, semi auto monthly, rifle, never?

 

[Bula]

"...More importantly, the need for lubrication is huge. I am known for a lack of maintenance to my weapon systems. I do joke about this; however, if you look at my weapons, they are all lubed above and beyond the normal mount. I keep the barrels extremely clean, and the rest of the weapon well lubed. If the weapon is to be carried daily, I still apply generous amounts of lubrication, not excessive , but very generous. This results in a few clothes ending up with oil stains. This is just the price of doing business with a weapon"

I can dig that. I've got some gun oil stained under shirts, but not oil stained pant legs or britches. Sometimes oil does collect at the rear of slides or around the barrel bushing after a range visit. Point taken.

 

[Gun Master]

Always leave a light coat of oil, but clean first.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

how often are you wallowing around in the mud with your firearms?

Not me, but I read the USMC did that a lot in WWII, especially at Guadalcanal, and it was important to them.


I myself am of the school of wet lubing obvious points of metal-on-metal contact with Mobil 1 or other well established lube (including RemOil, CLP, Hoppes oil -- the gun oil, not the #9 solvent), leaving a light anti-oxidant coat elsewhere (as in clean, oil, and wipe), and keeping dry, very dry, all surfaces directly exposed to hot gas operation.

I did shoot my son's new AR M4gery build one season in local club military modern rifle matches. I did not run it "wet" but ran it basically dry with the bearing surfaces clean and lubed. I had no problems in 210 rounds for score not counting shots for sight adjustment, handload test, assembly adjustments, etc. One year, seven monthly matche events, maybe not a big sample, but nearly 500 rounds all totaled.

Using Marlin M60, Nylon 66, CBC 7022, M1 carbine, Kalashnikov, AR, C96, CZ52, Ruger MkII, M1911A1, H&K USP, over the years I have had no problems following these rules on semi-autos:
(a) wet lube metal-on-metal bearing surfaces,
(b) dry all surfaces exposed to hot gas or powder fouling,
(c) clean, oil and wipe almost dry everywhere else.

But I do not support the idea of "running wet" even though my son's mentor is of the "run all AR's wet" school. To me, CLP Break-Free is fine in moderation, but too much is too much.

I am also of the "run AKs dry but cleaned and lubed on metal-to-metal contact" school. Just because most AKs can be neglected is no excuse to neglect them. I have an acquaintance who has deliberately ran his AK w/o clean or lube to see how much it will take to stop it. I think mine will last much longer with very little more care. Why break it, if you may bet your life on it working?

I will lube with a good oil and am trending toward advocating Mobil 1 as long term use as better and cheaper than the more expensive brands. I will use for penetrating and cleaning off crap a lot of lesser oils including 3-in-1 and WD40 as cheap penetrators. Face it: the only thing that dissolves the wax left behind by WD40 is fresh WD40.

And I have memories of reviving a S&W Chief Special 36 immobilized by varnished oil. It was inherited by a relative from a relative who had retired from the the sheriff's department and the gun had not been fired in at least a decade. Some oils over time will oxidize and turn to a gumby varnish consistency.

 

[Warp]

yeah, high plains means no rust worries
but for how the guns function, they do fine n i wipe off all the oil i can.
revolver, semi auto n rifle.
when i'm working with a gun, that means 300 rounds/week.
revolver gets cleaned weekly, semi auto monthly, rifle, never?

Wiping oil off =/= dry

 

[benEzra]

It depends on what type of oil you are using. A bunch of petroleum distillates that polymerize into gum and varnish over time are a different animal from a full synthetic, which doesn't, or from a cleaning solvent/lubricant mix like CLP.

I've had very good results running an AR wet with Mobil 1 EP 5W30, and I can vouch from personal experience that an under-oiled Russian SKS can turn into a single-shot.

2. Since only a few rounds were fired from each gun, the test didn't address the real problem of overlubing - which is the oil mixing with carbon, unburned powder & other firing residue & creating a thick sludge that can slow the firing pin's travel & other parts that require proper timing in an auto. Firing 10 - 20 rounds proves nothing because that's not enough firing to create that situation.

Use a good synthetic, and the oil mixing with the carbon keeps it runny enough to flow out of the way instead of turning to carbon concrete.

 

[Baron_Null]

I feel as though the biggest issue when it comes to discussing over/under oiling is the ambiguity of the terms and the subjective nature of reporting your own experience.

In this thread members have defended over-oiling by talking about how they oil and wipe down the excess, and other members have defended running a gun dry by citing the same procedure.

I feel like this discussion would benefit greatly if members were to have some sort of consensus on what constitutes dry vs. wet vs. lightly lubricated ect.

 

[Gun Master]

It depends on what type of oil you are using. A bunch of petroleum distillates that polymerize into gum and varnish over time are a different animal from a full synthetic, which doesn't, or from a cleaning solvent/lubricant mix like CLP.

I've had very good results running an AR wet with Mobil 1 EP 5W30, and I can vouch from personal experience that an under-oiled Russian SKS can turn into a single-shot.


Use a good synthetic, and the oil mixing with the carbon keeps it runny enough to flow out of the way instead of turning to carbon concrete.

Well said. OK, which ones turn into concrete or varnish, and which don't ?

 

[Warp]

I feel as though the biggest issue when it comes to discussing over/under oiling is the ambiguity of the terms and the subjective nature of reporting your own experience.

In this thread members have defended over-oiling by talking about how they oil and wipe down the excess, and other members have defended running a gun dry by citing the same procedure.

I feel like this discussion would benefit greatly if members were to have some sort of consensus on what constitutes dry vs. wet vs. lightly lubricated ect.

This is correct.

It's not dry if you are wiping off excess oil, or wiping it down with a patch or rag that is oiled up.

And it's not over-oiling if you don't get oil somewhere it shouldn't be (IMO), obvious examples have been given, such as striker channels or gas tubes...oil does't belong there

 

[benEzra]

which ones turn into concrete or varnish, and which don't ?

Oils distilled from crude oil (petroleum distillates) are more likely to oxidize and turn to gum over time. 3 in 1, and WD-40, are both pretty famous for this. At the other end of the spectrum, polyalphaolefins (aka full synthetic oils) don't. So look for an oil with a good synthetic base stock, and if petroleum distillates or mineral spirits are a major ingredient, it's probably not the best choice as a long term lubricant. (These can make decent protectants for externals, but aren't as good as lubricants).

Carbon residue accretes into a hard solid if it's not oiled at all; basically keep carbon residue wet with a good oil and you can wipe it off at your leisure.

 

[Gun Master]

Many thanks.

 

[Slamfire]

I was watching The Armory Channel on YouTube and Pete made a statement that the worst thing you can do to a gun is over oil it.

I think this comes from an Army memory of combat in Korea. I had a number of Vietnam Veteran buds tell me they had been told not to lube their guns. Korea can get very cold, and oil gets thick at low temperatures. Korea War vets learned to wipe off all lubricant to keep their guns functioning. Whereas, in hot, wet, environments, it is best to keep your gun lubed.

I don't have any particular sympathy for those who allow crud to build up, and then blame the lube. You don't keep your weapon clean, and lubricated, you are going to have malfunctions. Your rifle does not come with an oil pump or oil filter, it is up to you, the operator, to clean your weapon after each firing session. All powder residue and used lube should be removed, either chemically, or with wipes. Once surfaces are clean of crud, they should be re oiled.

 

[Warp]

I think this comes from an Army memory of combat in Korea. I had a number of Vietnam Veteran buds tell me they had been told not to lube their guns. Korea can get very cold, and oil gets thick at low temperatures. Korea War vets learned to wipe off all lubricant to keep their guns functioning. Whereas, in hot, wet, environments, it is best to keep your gun lubed.

I don't have any particular sympathy for those who allow crud to build up, and then blame the lube. You don't keep your weapon clean, and lubricated, you are going to have malfunctions. Your rifle does not come with an oil pump or oil filter, it is up to you, the operator, to clean your weapon after each firing session. All powder residue and used lube should be removed, either chemically, or with wipes. Once surfaces are clean of crud, they should be re oiled.

My experience (as well as many others) has been that cleaning after every firing session is wholly unnecessary. Some exceptionally knowledgeable and experienced folks will say the same thing

 

[Vern Humphrey]

There are several things that can happen when you over oil a gun:

1. The oil can congeal or gum up and cause malfunctions.

2. The oil can attract dust, grit and grime and cause malfunctions.

3. The oil can penetrate the primers and cause misfires.

4. Excess oil in the chamber and barrel can raise pressures.

 

[AK103K]

I don't have any particular sympathy for those who allow crud to build up, and then blame the lube. You don't keep your weapon clean, and lubricated, you are going to have malfunctions. Your rifle does not come with an oil pump or oil filter, it is up to you, the operator, to clean your weapon after each firing session. All powder residue and used lube should be removed, either chemically, or with wipes. Once surfaces are clean of crud, they should be re oiled.

I agree. If you take care of your stuff, it has a much better chance of being there for you when you need it. Neglect it at your own risk.

My experience (as well as many others) has been that cleaning after every firing session is wholly unnecessary. Some exceptionally knowledgeable and experienced folks will say the same thing

Id have to question the knowledge and experience of those who dont maintain their weapons.

I can see the thought (well....., no I cant ) if youre going to be using the gun again soon, in a short period of time, and maybe you let it go, especially if it wasnt shot much. But not cleaning it for a longer period, or after its been used a good bit, especially in weather, is just asking for trouble.

Ive seen the results of doing just that, and it wasnt good. Even in the short run, it can be bad.

Perhaps growing up in the age of corrosive ammo, and being taught by those who were accustomed to dealing with it, have a bearing on the thoughts of some of us on this.

 

[Warp]

Id have to question the knowledge and experience of those who dont maintain their weapons.

Maybe you are in a position to question the knowledge and experience of guys like Kyle Lamb...but I'm certainly not

 

[Lord Teapot]

only thing i can think would be a problem would be if the oil swept in contaminants sufficient to clog the firing pin area. also heard it can deactivate primers and discolor some stock materials. i doubt it would cause any serious damage, though, didn't they use to store guns in vats of oil? only problem was cleaning the crud off when you took it out.