Perceptions of the US by Middle Eastern immigrants

Status
Not open for further replies.
Given the nutjobs running Iran, teaching women from there how to shoot is absolutely a good thing. Ugh...

Travis makes a good point if she's concerned. A little bit of "I'm on your side" can go a long way towards loosening other folk up if she's worried. That said, I don't know as she'd have much to worry about. Heck, thirty years ago folks would have been looking funny at you wandering about an American range, but now you're an American Icon. :p


-K
 
Pre 9/11 I am in a school for mid grade military officers. About 1/3 of our class are allied officers from various nations. One day we are sitting around chatting and one thing that the Turkish and Egyptian officers keep bringing up is that in their countries only flunkies and lackeys drive pick up trucks. The other thing is the American fascination with firearms they don't get it. Finnally I let fly; I own 11 firearms and drive a pick up truck.

I swear I thought the Turkish was going to wet his pants. His total demeanor changed towards me and he actually looked afraid of me for the next two months until he left. The Egyptian guy I actually took the range later he had a great time. I don't think anyone ever gave us a second look. It was pre 9/11 though......
 
At the turn of the last generation German-Americans were feared and shunned due to the selfish and desperate actions of the Kaiser across the ocean. 25 years later, Japanese-Americans were feared and stripped of their rights due to the selfish and desperate actions of Tojo across the ocean. The fear and hate of latinos and blacks was due to the actions of the few selfish and desperate. I never could figure out what the prejudice against Jews was all about. Now Americans and other westerners fear and shun all those of Arab decent or those who identify themselves with a certain peaceful religion, again due to the selfish and desperate actions of few.

In a lot of ways gun owners have a lot in common with those groups. We all are feared and shunned as a group due to the selfish and terrible actions of a few. If we were more visibly identifiable to the public in our daily lives (like the above people), we'd probably have it worse.

Fear and hate are easier than understanding and compassion. It seems fear and hate are the default actions of human beings sometimes. It is easy to see someone who does evil as being non-human without a thought to them having fears and hopes and feelings and family who love them. It is then easy to identify all who look the same, come from the same place or have similar beliefs as also being sub-human. As humans, we look for patterns to protect ourselves(in all aspects of our lives, it's how our brains work). Understanding and compassion take work, hard thought and deliberation.

Fear and hate are the tools of evil. They are the means of our destruction, all of us. The actions of a few like Pearl Harbor, 9/11, or a wacko shooting up a school are mere sparks that ignite a fire. Fear and hate are the flames that consume us and leave humankind with nothing but misery.

Personally, I think Americans should remember two things:

An individual is innocent until proven guilty.

All human beings have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
 
I dealt with this issue before, not with shooting, but with airsoft.

I wanted to bring my Indian friend airsofting, but my friend wouldnt let me. He said that something bad would probably happen, since most of the people playing are ex-military, and dont like middle eastern looking people too much.

I guess just go bring whoever you want shooting. It's a pretty diverse sport, I think.

I remember the second time I ever shot a gun, in Florida. I went to the range, and this hot chick just a few years older than me was shooting a few lanes over, and then these 2 black guys were shooting with a Glock 22, getting practice for a CCW, and a Hispanic guy was shooting, too. They were a bit foulmouthed, but they were pretty safe and conducted themselves pretty well. However, the Italian/Hispanic guy took my lane, which lead to a funny conversation in the lane over.

"Hey, some guy downstairs claimed that lane."
"I'm that guy downstairs."
"Oh."
"Well the guy who was shooting there is gonna be pissed."
"Oh..."

The guy left his Beretta and a box of ammo there, I didnt touch it, being not my gun and all... But he came back, bitched about the owner, and just shared a lane with someone.

It was interesting to me, as I thought shooting really was just for strange crazy white folk like myself, but this opened my eyes a lot. Crazy gun nut white folk, black people, hispanics, ect, all shooting together and having fun. I liked it, I dont think that happens as much in CT as I saw in Florida. I also realized I need to move out of CT, and that Florida is pretty sweet. And Ruger Mk. 1s are fun.

If any of you are in Florida, go check out Big Al's Gun and Pawn, it's a nice store. I wanna go back there so bad when I go take another trip to Florida.
 
Pax there's still the matter of right and wrong. Profiling may 'work', if you detain a thousand Iranians and catch a dozen Iranian terrorists by doing so. But that does not justify it.

Seriously, if the ends justified the means then the police would be justified in randomly searching everyone's homes, just like they do cells in prisons, because that's an effective way to locate weapons.
 
I did not mean to imply that profiling is right, just that it's human instinct. It would be a sophisticated (and, I pray, rare) criminal indeed that thought about these things ahead of time and sought to evade the 'profile'.

And besides, if profiling saves just one life... :barf: ah, kidding.


For future reference, Pax is Pax. If my forum nick requires a nick, go with hso's recommendation and call me "PJ". or, sir would always work :rolleyes:
 
A friend (and coworker) of mine is a Muslim from Bangladesh. He was really interested in learning to shoot, and he eventually wanted to buy a gun...but then he started worrying about being put on a government list, and he's never brought it up again. In today's climate, he might be right. Maybe someday.
 
Until bombs start blowing up in the streets in the USA, I think Americans will be quite tolerant of anyone of Middle Eastern descent. You start having bombs blow up with any frequency such as is happening in Iraq these days geared toward killing civilians, all bets are off. I hope this situation does not develop in the US. I like peace and I like to feel safe. Middle Easterners here should try to ensure that this does not happen. I want them to feel safe too. They have this power if they are willing to exercise it.
 
Middle Easterners here should try to ensure that this does not happen...They have this power if they are willing to exercise it.
Click to expand...
Sure...about as much power as I have as a white person in 2007 to keep General Sherman from burning farms on his way to the sea.

I'm off this thread.
 
Personally, I encourage anyone who is interested to learn to shoot and to enjoy the shooting sports.
 
yeah, everyone looks at me and thinks one thing
Click to expand...

They think you're Dahler Mehndi, famed taxicab driver cum Bollywood pop artist, rocking out to some 80's anthem?

Wow. I wish I commanded that degree of presence.
Vishnu be praised, and pass the AR.
 
I was at the pistol range and was pleasantly surprised to see a young Muslim girl there today. Good for her. I think all women should be empowered to learn shooting and learn it well. I hope that I will see her again in the future. As far as teaching a Muslim, what difference would that make?? It is their choice in this country, if they didn't believe that, they would be somewhere else.
 
Muslim Women are not even allowed to drive in most countries. Guns are normally way off limits. I am really surprised that she was allowed to shoot a gun by her family. It was not that long ago that women in this country were treated as little more than chattel for the most part. Sometimes we forget how far we have come in 100 years.

Women in most Muslim countries are really treated like $h1+. Muslims I have talked to make various excuses about why women are treated this way and imply that it is not that bad, but it is bad and in a lot of cases worse than you might think.

If she is learning to shoot that is a very unusual situation unless they have been in the US for a very long time or are enlightened in some way.
 
I'd be interested to know if shooters of Middle Eastern descent get more glares at the range when they're alone or with other minorities as opposed to being there with a white friend, presumably under "white supervision" to prejudiced onlookers.
 
Wow. Just perused this thread. Think I'll bow out, as well. From the P.C. tone I sense, I doubt any comments on my part would be welcome. Carry on!
 
The more people that'd glare at them, the more justified they'd be for practicing there.

Incidentally, pics from Iran

(I can't find the one with them drawing their guns Israeli-style, and jumping out of a car)

IranianPolice04-031105.jpg
iran_women_police.jpg
 
I do not have photos of my ex-Bangladeshi co-worker yet, but he is coming to the range with his wife, son and daughter. I guess he's not practicing much domestic oppression.

Here's how Muslims I know look:

eva2.jpg
Married a Kurd, moved to Kurdistan (N.Iraq) with her husband, now lives in Nashville with him and two kids.

derek.jpg
His wife is a physician. I guess his past service in the US Army took so much effort that he got fell behind on both domestic abuse and domestic terrorism. Oh, and he runs this forum for us.

Muslim does not always mean "Middle-Eastern, bent on establishing the Caliphate on the Mississippi". It could mean "fifth-generation American" or "recent immigrant who wants to assimilate". The range trips I provide are part of the assimilation, together with the on-going introduction to Smith, Jefferson and Bastiat. The worst thing we can do is to snub these people and force them out of the mainstream. I've met people from Phillipines and Pakistan who wanted only to become American and not live as they did back home. That, by the way, is more than many European immigrants did -- remember the Irish and the German and the Jewish neighborhoods so common between 1890 and 1930?
 
I like the way you think, Oleg. Most of the Kurds I met in Iraq were great people, just sad. It's a shame the things people fight over (power). It is weird to me that people can hate a whole group of people just because a few of the more militant ones cause a problem. I hate terrorists, not Muslims.
 
If I saw a muslim at the range I would probably think about it for a second, make a joke in poor taste and move on. I am of the belief that if you come to America you should do your best to become an American. That means speak our language and practice our customs. Embracing the second amendment would be mighty high on my list of American things to do if I had just come from somewhere in the violent, turbulent middle east.

You really think terrorists would do something like go to a public range and draw that kind of attention to themselves?
 
I find Prof Ks comments interesting. I have been in the military a long time and haven't met a lot of people who 'dont like middle eastern looking people'. Usually the race problems I run across are B anti W/ W anti B. Even that is becoming more of rarity but you still see it occasionally. I think it is much less so than in the rest of American society.

I have been to Iraq, Q8, and SA and in all those countries women are treated like straight up dirt 90% of the time. Since Islam is the only state authorized religion it is not hard to associate all of Islam with bigotry. In this country is less so but it still happens quite a lot.

Seeing those pictures of the Iranian women reminded me IIRC they started that during the Iran / Iraq war when the talented Iranian Generals began advocating 'Human Wave' attacks into the machine guns to overcome the Iraqi forces (unsuccessfully). Treating people like human garbage resulted in huge numbers of killed and wounded and a man power shortage that forced them to look elswhere for fresh meat.
 
Understood, Delta608. I was just thinking more along the lines of "how many people would've freaked out if they saw a middle-easterner at flight school vs. how many people would've freaked out if they saw a middle-easterner at a shooting range." Granted there were hijackings before 9/11, but how many times did the terrorists actually fly the plane? Usually they just hold a gun to the pilot's head and tell him to land the plane or take them somewhere they can hold the passengers hostage until their friends are released from prison.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
  • Locked
Took some Eastern Europeans to the Range
Replies
21
Views
2K
Sleeping Dog
S
H
  • Locked
Why You Should Take An Immigrant Shooting: Ten Reasons
2 3 4
Replies
93
Views
5K
electronrider
E
F
  • Locked
ITAR dont protect you and kill us.
2
Replies
36
Views
3K
frenchbushmaster
F
B
  • Locked
Firearms handling advice from my 5yo
2
Replies
27
Views
2K
Packman
P
C
  • Locked
Foreigners understand the 2A better than we do.
Replies
11
Views
720
meinbruder
M
Back
Top