Please explain the "Scout Rifle"

[35 Whelen]

I haven't tried one but it just seems odd to me. Off balance.

This concern has been echoed in this thead quite a bit, and made me wonder. So, tried it and here's what I found:
(It sort of appears that I'm gripping the rifles, but I'm not. It's just sort of hard to balance them AND take a picture all at once)
First, my 35 Whelen built on a Mauser action very similar to the one my Scout's built on. 24" barrel, 4X Burris:


Next, my Remington Mod. 700 220 Swift. 24" barrel and a 3-9X40 Burris:


And finally my Scout. '98 Mauser action, 18 1/2" barrel:


Much to my surprise the Scout actually balanced further to the rear than the others. I think this is due in part to the shorter barrel.

So much for the scope throwing off the balance of the rifle!

35W

 

[Ranger30-06]

I have always liked the scout rifle concept. I like short, light, handy rifles, and if you really think about it, scout guns make excellent backpacking guns.


What's unique about the scout rifle concept is that because of the forward mounted scope, you can get off shots much quicker than a normal bolt action. You also have the option of higher powered calibers in a lighter rifle.


A scout rifle project I would like to do one day is a Remington 7600, re-barreled to a 16" .35 Whelen barrel, with ghost ring sights and a forward mounted red dot sight. The weight would be around 7lbs, and if I could make some decent hi-caps for the gun, I think I might have a pretty nice gun there!

 

[Kendal Black]

Now what I would really like to see is a scout scope with a ranging/bullet drop compensating reticle along the lines of the ACOG reticle. I think it would really fit the concept of the Scout rifle well... getting quick first-shot hits on targets in the field at unknown distance. And plus it would let me take this heavy ACOG + cheek riser setup off my M1A and run a scope that can sit low enough that it doesn't need a cheek riser, and would let me have my stripper clip guide back!

The Leupold Custom Shop will put long distance dialing on a scout scope, if you want, but that's not what you are looking for.

The trouble with a reticle of the kind you describe, one that relates target size to distance to trajectory, is that as soon as the backroom boys improve the bullet, your sight is out of whack and you end up holding off anyway. You are also off if you are shot at by a fat man, or a thin one, or one who is hiding.

 

[35 Whelen]

The trouble with a reticle of the kind you describe, one that relates target size to distance to trajectory, is that as soon as the backroom boys improve the bullet, your sight is out of whack and you end up holding off anyway.

Yep. Remember a Scout rifle isn't intended to be a super long range rifle. A .308 running a typical 150 gr. bullet at 2800 FPS or so MV, sighted 2.75" high @ 100 yds. is only about 6.5" low at 300 yds. This drop, or holdover, is easily "calculated" using the step on a duplex reticle. And actually a top of the back hold on deer size game at 300 yds. should put the bullet right in the boiler room.

35W

 

[HorseSoldier]

+1. If the ACOG were just intended for 0-300 meters or so, it wouldn't require any BDC just a minimal understanding of holdover for the specific barrel/cartridge combination. The LAPD issue ACOGs, for instance, just have cross hairs, as they (like most or all) law enforcement agencies don't want anyone this side of a SWAT sniper trying for shots at ranges where the BDC matters, due to liability/civilian casualty concerns.

 

[Kendal Black]

The Sniper Springfield's capabilities, somewhat bettered, but with the heft of an M16. Or less.

That is the idea, gentlemen. At least that is how it seems to me. I do not believe in seances, so there is nothing further to be contributed by the inventor. The artifact is the thing. There it is: take it or leave it.

If I thought I might need a rifle, but I wasn't sure what for, I'd take it.

 

[Art Eatman]

The Ruger Scout that I shot, belonging to a very satisfied friend, balanced okay with the forward mount. The only negative for me is the magazine concept, since I like to carry a rifle at the balance point.

If the mag isn't a problem for somebody, I see it as a good little truck gun or brush gun.

 

[Kendal Black]

The Ruger Scout that I shot, belonging to a very satisfied friend, balanced okay with the forward mount. The only negative for me is the magazine concept, since I like to carry a rifle at the balance point.

If the mag isn't a problem for somebody, I see it as a good little truck gun or brush gun.

3 round mag is shortly to be available. 5 also. Wait...I heard that here.

A good thirty-thirty will do 90% of what a man could ask of a light rifle. A scout will do slightly more.

 

[henschman]

It's not intended to be a super long range rifle, but IIRC he did intend it to be used for hits on man-sized targets out to 500 yards, or to the range at which the shooter can accurately make a hit in the vital zone. The .308, even out of a shorter barrel, is certainly capable of that and more. Anything past about 300m and you need an elevation adjustment or risk a miss on a vital area. And as we have said, one point of the scout scope is to allow for quick sight picture. I say the ability to quickly range the target and simultaneously get an accurate aiming point for that range would be nice on a Scout rifle.

And though it isn't a scout rifle, it would certainly be nice on my M1A... I could get rid of that adjustable cheek rest contraption and use stripper clips.

 

[HorseSoldier]

The Scout Rifle concept is a 90% sort of solution. Equipping it for 1% or less of engagements -- ranges out past 300 isn't -- isn't really in keeping with the concept. Even with ACOGs, PID and effective engagement out past normal gun fighting ranges in places with even modestly restrictive ROE isn't very common. Likewise, not a lot of guys out there hunting and taking 500 meter shots with less than 3x scopes.

 

[MachIVshooter]

IMO, a scout rifle is just a guide gun with the scope in the wrong place.

I understand the principle behind forward mounting, but it absolutely kills FOV. As other posters have said, a standard scope on a low power setting is plenty easy to acquire a target rapidly with. If you need peripheral, open your other eye.

Though I don't own one, the gun I'd choose to fill the "scout rifle" role would be a Remington 673 guide gun in .350 Rem mag with a 2-7x scope, mounted normally.

 

[Mr.Blue]

I consider my Ruger Gunsite Scout as one of the two rifles that my wife and I would take with us in the event we needed to evacuate. The other would be my M4.

I would trust the bolt-action Scout to be more reliable in harsh conditions. The Mauser action's strength and simple design make it a better choice for long periods in the bush.

The 10 round capacity is nice if you had to fight off malevolent mobs of people. The low power forward mounted scope allows you to take out targets/game faster at short/intermediate distances.

I like the concept for any SHTF scenario.

 

[Dr T]

I have a Ruger Frontier in 308. This was the predecessor of the recent Ruger scout rifle. Last year, I hunted with it with the forward mounted scope. It did provide fast target acquisition, and it did allow me to keep track of the deer easily after I dropped the hammer. However, it did not work well in low light, or bright to low situations when I was looking into heavy brush. With this rifle and scope combination, I was able to shoot 1.25 inch groups
This year, I have re-scoped this rifle with the Burris 2-7 fullfield with E1 reticule. This has vastly superior low light capabilities, and my groups have shrunk to 0.75 inch.
This rifle has balanced well with both the forward mounted in conventionally mounted scopes. Now all I need to do is take it out hunting to complete my field test of the configuration.

 

[fal762x51]

A scout is like golfing with nothing but a 6 iron. You can do it, but why?

 

[sKunkT]

well, not exactly, it's pretty hard to make 20 yard shot and a 300 yard shot with a 6 iron without adjusting your swing.

 

[fal762x51]

If part of the idea for a scout rifle is to allow a scout to make a decisive shot, and then be light enough to flee, wouldnt it make sense to suppress it? One shot from a 308 might attract a lot of unwanted attention for a scout.

 

[henschman]

For sure, a suppressor would make a whole lot of sense for the scout concept. I suppose it might tip a rifle over the weight requirement, but it would be worth its weight in gold in the field. I guess when Cooper developed the scout concept there weren't a whole lot of good rifle-caliber suppressors out there that didn't feel like attaching a hog leg to the end of your rifle. That market has matured a lot in recent years.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Again, a Scout is nothing more than a general purpose rifle. It wasn't envisaged as a military tool, but as a civilian all purpose rifle. It began as an academic discussion among Cooper and his rifle crank friends and grew from there.

The Lion Scout was the African (or Alaskan) scout, based on the .350 Rem Mag, which was the only heavy round of the time that fit in a short action.

The "Scout" itself was the general North American rifle based on the .308, also because it fit in a short action.

As a general purpose rifle it's an admirable concept. If you want a specific fighting rifle or a specific hunting rifle and don't mind lugging around extra weight, you can do better.

 

[fal762x51]

As a general purpose rifle it's an admirable concept. If you want a specific fighting rifle or a specific hunting rifle and don't mind lugging around extra weight, you can do better

I agree, and my question is not so much about the rifle design, as the logic behind it.

You should generally have some idea as to what you are going to be doing with a rifle, and therefore be able to plan accordingly. I have never been in a situation where I have simultaneously found myself wandering in the woods, hunting large and small game at the same time, while being chased by zombies, avoiding Chinese communists, and scouting enemy positions in a stealthy manner. I admit I am probably unprepared for such an outing, but if you have a scout rifle, undoubtedly you would do fine.

I do not like the general purpose, one size fits all, concept.

 

[KodiakBeer]

I do not like the general purpose, one size fits all, concept.

Well, it depends on your needs. Where I live, deer hunting depends on climbing near vertical ridges after fighting through alder belts that are as thick as any jungle environment, so weight and length are very important. And you do all of this in country with one grizzly per square mile. You might need to take a 300 yard shot at a deer, or face down a 1000 pound grizzly at 10 yards in the alders.

Coopers Lion Scout (.350 Rem Mag) makes sense here, so I had one built. I grew up stand hunting in Michigan, and I wouldn't need it there. But here, in real wild country with real dangers, it makes perfect sense.

I took this picture on a deer hunt in August and I post it here to give you an idea of the country. We're up on top, but to get there we had to climb through an almost jungle environment loaded with bears.

 

[Fringe]

I am in the infant stage of my Scout, I got an old Yugo 24/47 some guy had started doing and sport job on it,..I am placing a 7.62 Nato barrel on it, In fact I just placed an order for the barrel today, Next week getting the bolt bent.. & will not even have $200 in it yet, Going with the XS mounting system.. Reusing the font sight & found a nice little M1 carbine peep sight for the rear..Now as for a scope ? Still on the hunt for that.. Not sure as to what to get, Now if any of you guy have an idea as to what would be a good scope for the price.. I am not a tight wad but wan what is good & do not like paying huge amount of cash on just a name brand.. I like a solid product at a fair price.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

"A scout is like golfing with nothing but a 6 iron. You can do it, but why?" Once you have to pack all the irons and woods on a 20 mile march, you will figure out which clubs you don't need.

 

[Art Eatman]

MachIVshooter: Field of view is no problem, with both eyes open.

I don't recall the name of the event, but at Gunsite there was (is?) a course of fire where you move along a trail with somewhat-hidden targets off to the side at varying distances. It's a hits and time deal. The great majority of winners in the competition used Scouts. At the time I read about it, the Steyr was the only one available.

 

[35 Whelen]

Now if any of you guy have an idea as to what would be a good scope for the price..

I have two Burris Scout scopes. Wouldn't take for them. One I JUST bought here inthe For Sale forums. Took my time and waited and waited and got a nearly new Burris for $150.

Once you have to pack all the irons and woods on a 20 mile march, you will figure out which clubs you don't need.

thanks for saving wear and tear on my keyboard.

35W

 

[fal762x51]

Once you have to pack all the irons and woods on a 20 mile march, you will figure out which clubs you don't need.

I am curious, how many times do you go on a 20 mile walk with a rifle?