MicroBalrog
member
Actually, the research IIRC also included earlier federal restrictions.
Please help! Good guy arrested in Ohio
- Thread starter Ian
- Start date
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Actually, the research IIRC also included earlier federal restrictions.
Another update:
A comprehensive page has been put up on the Liberty Round Table site for people wishing to donate to the defense fund, and it includes snail-mail, e-Gold, and PayPal info.
As the situation currently stands, he will be arraigned on Fedruary 2nd. Ohio requires grand jury indictments for all felony charges, and grand juries meet monthly in Ashland County (where he was arrested) - hence the delay in the arraignment. His lawyer is currently working on several motions, including one to return at least some of his possessions from his vehicle.
Again, my thanks (and Hunter's) go out to everyone who has offered their support, in whatever form.
A comprehensive page has been put up on the Liberty Round Table site for people wishing to donate to the defense fund, and it includes snail-mail, e-Gold, and PayPal info.
As the situation currently stands, he will be arraigned on Fedruary 2nd. Ohio requires grand jury indictments for all felony charges, and grand juries meet monthly in Ashland County (where he was arrested) - hence the delay in the arraignment. His lawyer is currently working on several motions, including one to return at least some of his possessions from his vehicle.
Again, my thanks (and Hunter's) go out to everyone who has offered their support, in whatever form.
grampster
Member
Well......it has been an interesting hour or so.....reading all the comments here. Those comments cause an emotional ebb and flow with me, and with a number of you also, it seems. But......the crux of the matter.....
Here's a guy who had some guns locked up, and a pistol on his person along with some knives locked up and on his person.... He is stopped for speeding in Ohio and leo sees some gun stuff with his eyes on the seat, without searching the car. This gives him the right, actually the obligation to find out what the story is. He has "reasonable cause" to pursue the matter further. He would be derilect in his duty to not look into the situation.
Leo has a process he can go through to find out what the story is from the involved person as well as by radio checks, consultation with superiors etc. He then has a choice to let the man go because he has a plausible story with no intent to break a law, or if a law appears to have been broken, felony or misdemeanor in the leo's presence, he can arrest. He did so in this case for whatever reason.
Mr. Jordan submitted. Now it's up to the legal system to work or not.
The question is......do you want to help him in his time of trouble....regardless of whether he did a bonehead thing or not? After all, he did not hurt anyone, only did something stupid. ...All the ancilliary BS notwithstanding.....Period. Actually, whether you sympathize with him or not....you could help him anyway....depends on how you feel, I guess.
I'm sending money. I think he was stupid for not having all his stuff locked up or hidden in such a fashion that if he got stopped for a minor trafic infraction, he would not have anything to worry about. If it could not be seen, so no reasonable cause to search or cause suspicion. Have I done stupid things? Yup. Don't make me a bad guy or not worthy of my friends, acquaintances and anyone else with a soft spot helping bail me out.
I'm up for it.....In fact makes me feel better that I can help someone I don't know, who thinks like me, but does something stupid once in awhile.
the Good Samaritan did not ask any questions nor argue about ambiguities....he merely helped. Rather be a Samaritan than argue about nits.
grampster
Here's a guy who had some guns locked up, and a pistol on his person along with some knives locked up and on his person.... He is stopped for speeding in Ohio and leo sees some gun stuff with his eyes on the seat, without searching the car. This gives him the right, actually the obligation to find out what the story is. He has "reasonable cause" to pursue the matter further. He would be derilect in his duty to not look into the situation.
Leo has a process he can go through to find out what the story is from the involved person as well as by radio checks, consultation with superiors etc. He then has a choice to let the man go because he has a plausible story with no intent to break a law, or if a law appears to have been broken, felony or misdemeanor in the leo's presence, he can arrest. He did so in this case for whatever reason.
Mr. Jordan submitted. Now it's up to the legal system to work or not.
The question is......do you want to help him in his time of trouble....regardless of whether he did a bonehead thing or not? After all, he did not hurt anyone, only did something stupid. ...All the ancilliary BS notwithstanding.....Period. Actually, whether you sympathize with him or not....you could help him anyway....depends on how you feel, I guess.
I'm sending money. I think he was stupid for not having all his stuff locked up or hidden in such a fashion that if he got stopped for a minor trafic infraction, he would not have anything to worry about. If it could not be seen, so no reasonable cause to search or cause suspicion. Have I done stupid things? Yup. Don't make me a bad guy or not worthy of my friends, acquaintances and anyone else with a soft spot helping bail me out.
I'm up for it.....In fact makes me feel better that I can help someone I don't know, who thinks like me, but does something stupid once in awhile.
the Good Samaritan did not ask any questions nor argue about ambiguities....he merely helped. Rather be a Samaritan than argue about nits.
grampster
Gmac
Member
Grampster yours is a welcome voice of reason!Bill St. Clair
Member
I second the motion. Thanks, Grampster.
jimpeel
Member
Took a lot of posts to get here. Good to be out of the ditch and back on The High Road with a little help from Grampster's Towing Service.
"I'm sending money. I think he was stupid for not having all his stuff locked up or hidden in such a fashion that if he got stopped for a minor trafic infraction, he would not have anything to worry about. If it could not be seen, so no reasonable cause to search or cause suspicion. Have I done stupid things? Yup. Don't make me a bad guy or not worthy of my friends, acquaintances and anyone else with a soft spot helping bail me out."
Well put Grampster. Ditto on the donation.
Well put Grampster. Ditto on the donation.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Grampster, Atticus, et al ..... Sure he screwed up but ... I think now is ''his hour of need'' ... and however much I might be criticized for so doing ... I have sent $100 in that direction.
Knowing legal costs I doubt that will buy an attorney a cup of Folgers!
I have to imagine if my son had gotten into deep water ... screwed up and been foolish ... would I defend him and back him? ... of course I would. Criticize ''Hunter'' all you will .. he needs help right now.
Knowing legal costs I doubt that will buy an attorney a cup of Folgers!
I have to imagine if my son had gotten into deep water ... screwed up and been foolish ... would I defend him and back him? ... of course I would. Criticize ''Hunter'' all you will .. he needs help right now.
Gramps said: "his gives him the right, actually the obligation to find out what the story is. He has "reasonable cause" to pursue the matter further. He would be derilect in his duty to not look into the situation."
Sheriff Dan Beck of Allen County (Lima, Ohio), has instructed his deputies that they are not to arrest individuals they find carrying concealed but otherwise peaceable citizens.
Rick
Sheriff Dan Beck of Allen County (Lima, Ohio), has instructed his deputies that they are not to arrest individuals they find carrying concealed but otherwise peaceable citizens.
Rick
Ryder
Member
WOW!!!
I think any gun owner that crosses the state line of enemy territory is wrong. Those states don't get one cent of my money. Regardless, I sent out a substantial check for Hunter's Defense this AM as promised.
GIVE EM HELL HUNTER!
Sergeant Bob
Member
Microbalrog
That was his response to my statement:
Although I didn't get into it with him, I expect it would be the "usual" gay bashing, rascist, anti immigrant "social issues" people who believe in the Constitution are often stereotyped with. He was throwing a red herring at me and I wasn't catching it.
Then he went in the completely opposite direction with:
Trying to intimate that by "freedom" I meant people should have the freedom to molest children.
That's aside from the fact that
WildMr.lawabidingcitizeneverythingshouldbesettledbyjudgesAlaska has already convicted "Mikey Jackson" without him even having his day in the courts which he is so fond of.
Wow! You guys are awesome - over $5000 have already been contributed to the defense (about half of which has been used already in atty fees).
Also, there's something else that could be a big help - this is from Sunni Maravillosa again:
Her email address is sunni at free-market.net.
Also, we've gotten a fantastic piece of coverage from the Mansfield News Journal, an Ohio paper in the area: Gun-toter has 'Liberty' on his side. Letters to the paper thanking them for their balanced reporting would be very helpful. The contact info provided for the article's author is [email protected], or (419) 521-7274.
Again, thank you all!
Also, there's something else that could be a big help - this is from Sunni Maravillosa again:
Her email address is sunni at free-market.net.
Also, we've gotten a fantastic piece of coverage from the Mansfield News Journal, an Ohio paper in the area: Gun-toter has 'Liberty' on his side. Letters to the paper thanking them for their balanced reporting would be very helpful. The contact info provided for the article's author is [email protected], or (419) 521-7274.
Again, thank you all!
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Sportcat
Member
Pretty balanced story, except for the "assualt-style" comment.
The Undertoad
Member
Ian - sounds like a good guy got a raw deal. I'll scrape together some cash and send him a MO. I'm actually in Ohio right now...definitely not my favorite state.
Cosmoline
Member
That's harsh. I hope he's able to get out of Ohio.
Myself, I never leave Alaska anymore.
Myself, I never leave Alaska anymore.
Blackcloud6
Member
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2002
- Messages
- 608
I've been following this thread from the start. I have felt that what Mr. Hunter did was not prudent and I still hold this belief. At first it came across to me that he entered Ohio fully aware of what he was doing and thumbing his nose at the law; this also is not prudent.
But after reading all this and linking to the Liberty Round Table, it appears that Mr. Hunter just made a mistake by not putting his pistol away before entering Ohio... and speeding while transporting firearms in Ohio which is notorious for pulling people over.
I hope he prevails as he does not deserve to be a felon for this simple error of omission.
I still feel that if one carries, one should obey the laws fully. There is just too much at risk. There's other ways to fight unjust laws.
I am sending a contribution to his defense fund. You reap what you sow.
But after reading all this and linking to the Liberty Round Table, it appears that Mr. Hunter just made a mistake by not putting his pistol away before entering Ohio... and speeding while transporting firearms in Ohio which is notorious for pulling people over.
I hope he prevails as he does not deserve to be a felon for this simple error of omission.
I still feel that if one carries, one should obey the laws fully. There is just too much at risk. There's other ways to fight unjust laws.
I am sending a contribution to his defense fund. You reap what you sow.
Wildalaska
member
Funny thing, my wife, who is not originally from from the US and who has never lived anywhere in the US but here, asked me if I was gonna bring a gun with me when we went to NY and when I said no, she said "not safety with no gun"...
Living in Alaska sure influences ones outlook...
WildeventheleftleaningmayorofAnchoragehasapermitAlaska
12-34hom
Member
If you carry a gun and start traveling through jurisdictions where thier state firearms laws differ from where you live, you owe it to yourself as a responsible gun owner to know what the laws are and comply with said laws to avoid situations just like this one.
I don't see it as capitulation of my beliefs, just common sense & respect for the law in general.
As in all walks of life there are those willing to futher thier goals on the backs of others. This should concern everyone who carries a gun for self protection. The repercussions have a ripple effect - for behaviour done not out of malice; none the less still have a toll, and reflect on gunowners as a whole - right or wrongly.
The name calling and finger pointing contained in this thread are meaningless....
Blame is reserved for God and little children.
12-34hom.
I don't see it as capitulation of my beliefs, just common sense & respect for the law in general.
As in all walks of life there are those willing to futher thier goals on the backs of others. This should concern everyone who carries a gun for self protection. The repercussions have a ripple effect - for behaviour done not out of malice; none the less still have a toll, and reflect on gunowners as a whole - right or wrongly.
The name calling and finger pointing contained in this thread are meaningless....
Blame is reserved for God and little children.
12-34hom.
Wow, that was a long thread to read through!
But I'm heading over to the other website to contribute funds.
That is, once I dig out that handcuff key I squirreled away years ago and put it on my keychain.
(The extra insight into some THR members' character was, well, interesting)
But I'm heading over to the other website to contribute funds.
That is, once I dig out that handcuff key I squirreled away years ago and put it on my keychain.
(The extra insight into some THR members' character was, well, interesting)
Dadman - He's written for both The Libertarian Enterprise and Sierra Times. You can find his article archive at vader.com down at the bottom of the page. He also has a recent piece on Doing Freedom! ezine. Besides these, he's a long-time member/contributor of the NRA, GOA, Second Amendment Sisters, Pink Pistols, JPFO (including being a doner to the Innocents Betrayed project), and probably a couple other RKBA groups I don't know of. He's also very active in local and state politics in New Hampshire, and teaches gun safety.
BTW, if anyone saw the horrible "lone nut with a gun" photo that a couple of the news stories have been running, here's what he looks like when not in the middle of a road trip and arrest:
BTW, if anyone saw the horrible "lone nut with a gun" photo that a couple of the news stories have been running, here's what he looks like when not in the middle of a road trip and arrest:
ctdonath
Member
Have you actually read your own state's gun laws? all of them? How about the gun laws of neighboring states? How many people ACTUALLY know the relevant gun laws? I read the NY gun laws every year - a time-consuming mind-bending task wherein I discover something new and significant each time; as such, I find it practically absurd to expect anyone else to do the same.
Easy for you (and others here) to say "just follow the law". HA! I have here the BATF book consolidating state gun laws into nearly 500 pages of dense fine print - and it admits to NOT including many laws highly relevant to this discussion.
I've read this whole thread - nowhere has anyone actually comprehensively quoted the relevant Ohio laws!
Gun laws in most states are so complex, and so muddled by varying jurisdictions, and written in a language incomprehensible to common folk - never mind impossible-to-find relevant court cases - that ignorance of the law due to obfuscation by the legislature should be an affirmative defense, especially when the offense in question has no victim, jeopardy, or intent.
"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." That's easy to understand. Everything that re-interprets that is, on the whole, incomprehensible (trust me, I've tried).
TheeBadOne
Member
Yes.
When the wife and I went on vaction I traveled through many states. I made sure I knew the laws before I left. In some states my pistol was loaded and on me, in others it was unloaded and cased in the trunk.
I encourage others to read them as well, knowledge is power.
When I did my road trip from Ohio to Arizona last spring, I called every state and several city (LEO) jurisdictions as well as going to packing.org, state web sites and my "Traverlers Gun Guide."
With the mish mash of CCW states (some with recip, some without) and open carry states and peaceful journey states and no-carry states there here was no way safe and *legal* way for me me to consistantly transport a firearm with me other than utilizing the 1896 FOPA (in the trunk).
I could CCW in Indiana, but one has to pull off the interstate to store it for Illinios... oops, did I just pass the state line or is it up there somewhere? Then you get into Missouri which is open carry but has no preemption. I was told by the State Police that they had no way to keep track of all the county, city, township, and village laws that may or may not be on the books.
As for Mr. Jordan, why would he not think that he would be a "prudent person" under Ohio law, as was Mr. Feeley, of Ohio v Feeley fame?
A few thousand dollars worth of weapons and ammo as well as a vehicle and money to protect, let alone his life. Wouldn't a "prudent person" as per Ohio Statute take steps to protect himself and carry concealed as the law suggests he is permitted to do?
Oh, yeah, that prior restraint thing of an affirmative defense that makes you prove your innocence in a court of law.
Just dandy.
BTW, a confession, all the whining I've done and I still haven't sent my $20 dollars yet. It's grant-writing season and I've been pullling 15 hours days and working weekends.
Forgive me.
Rick
With the mish mash of CCW states (some with recip, some without) and open carry states and peaceful journey states and no-carry states there here was no way safe and *legal* way for me me to consistantly transport a firearm with me other than utilizing the 1896 FOPA (in the trunk).
I could CCW in Indiana, but one has to pull off the interstate to store it for Illinios... oops, did I just pass the state line or is it up there somewhere? Then you get into Missouri which is open carry but has no preemption. I was told by the State Police that they had no way to keep track of all the county, city, township, and village laws that may or may not be on the books.
As for Mr. Jordan, why would he not think that he would be a "prudent person" under Ohio law, as was Mr. Feeley, of Ohio v Feeley fame?
A few thousand dollars worth of weapons and ammo as well as a vehicle and money to protect, let alone his life. Wouldn't a "prudent person" as per Ohio Statute take steps to protect himself and carry concealed as the law suggests he is permitted to do?
Oh, yeah, that prior restraint thing of an affirmative defense that makes you prove your innocence in a court of law.
Just dandy.
BTW, a confession, all the whining I've done and I still haven't sent my $20 dollars yet. It's grant-writing season and I've been pullling 15 hours days and working weekends.
Forgive me.
Rick
12-34hom
Member
Yes i have read and know what the laws concerning CCW here in Iowa, and the laws concerning the justified use of deadly force.
If i travel across state lines and plan on having a concealed firearm , i know what their laws are and comply with them.
It's merely a matter of common sense and what any reasonable and responsible gun owner should do.
12-34hom.
If i travel across state lines and plan on having a concealed firearm , i know what their laws are and comply with them.
It's merely a matter of common sense and what any reasonable and responsible gun owner should do.
12-34hom.
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