Polymer pistol snaps at handle during fall.

[GLOOB]

I'd be ready for this, $40 and I can buy a replacement grip frame for my Beretta Nano, haha.

I believe Glock will usually replace a broken or worn out frame for $150.00, as long as you didn't alter it intentionally.

I wonder what HK will do.

 

[Skribs]

Gloob...$550.

(Not sure if that's accurate, just HKs are expensive)

 

[Nushif]

I kinda find this remarkable.

So, what we have is a crash that left an officer "broke" for all intents and purposes. Out, done gone, inop, whatever you want to call it. And we're sitting here putting forth the point that it's a liability that the pistol broke, since it's his main means of defense? Defense while ... incapacitated?

I think at a certain point the iron versus plastic debate is moot. Any gun this officer was carrying would have been no good afterwards. Whether it breaks at the grip or warps it, or loses its blackpowder, or bends a pencil barrel or breaks a flint holder or loses its energy cell is immaterial. Poor sucker probably landed on it ... and it broke. Along with him.

 

[Fastcast]

If this unfortunate fellow would be up for just one more test run, we could put this to rest....My money is going on the steel pistol being banged and tattered but still operable!

 

[coalman]

Yep, plastic can break. IMO this is why all metal handguns are a better general issue choice for troops. I'm a big Glock fan for LE and CCW, but, in service, I do not believe a plastic gun would last 20+ years like the 92fs has or 40+ years like some 1911s did. Flamesuit on.

 

[XD 45acp]

Well you can bank on one thing... the manufacturer will darn sure want it back to study it. Things like this is how we learn where improvements are needed.

 

[TG13]

eh.. some super glue and it will be just fine..

 

[sargents1]

You can break anything if you try hard enough.

With that said, I think HKs are junk. I have no facts or experience to back that up, I just think they are ugly, over priced and stupid.

Since I am always right, and I have stated that HKs are junk, this has now become FACT.

 

[One_Jackal]

The only pistol I can think of that might have survived is a Bond Arms derringer. Not that it's a better gun, barrels are harder to bend. The pistol prolly would have stabbed the driver. Better off with the HK. I have never bought any gun based on how it handles a header off a 4 wheeler. Well I did buy a hi point to beat up.

 

[hentown]

Chance are, Glock would replace that frame free, given the circumstances. (Well, if it were a Glock; they wouldn't replace the HK frame!) Writing off polymer for a military issue sidearm, because it "might" not last 20 years is absurd. Think!! Besides, there are lots of Glocks that are over 20-yrs-old, and they work just fine.

 

[Skylerbone]

It's been 30 years since Glock unleashed his polymer wonder on the masses and in that time eyes have been watching, nay sayers naying, critics applauding. If the concept didn't work, an entire industry would not have followed suit. Polymer works, it's durable and, this incident not withstanding, it is rugged.

 

[Walking Dead]

This accident also sent the BP agent to the hospital. Maybe we should stop making humans out of flesh and bone.

 

[Don357]

I can't believe there are so many "kool-aide" drinking, Glock fanboys that actually think that Glock pistols are indestructable. Are they good? Yes, they are. Are they accurate? again, yes. Are they reliable? Yes, again. Are they the great, 'all that'? No. Not by a long shot! Are they indestructable? By no means. Would I trust my life to one? As much as I would a S&W, 1911, Sig, Kel-Tec, Highpoint, Taurus, etc. You guys need to grow up and quit playing these child like "Mine is better than your's, because it's a ________ !" games.

 

[Weevil]

Well it is kinda interesting how everyone is talking about Glocks.

In case you guys hadn't noticed the pistol in question that actually broke is an HK, NOT a Glock.

Would a Glock have survived?

Who knows.

Does HK use the same polymer as Glock?

Does HK build their frames to exactly the same dimensions and thickness as Glock?

Yeah a polymer framed gun broke under extreme stress, but since it was NOT a Glock why is everyone arguing about the durability of Glocks???

When you have evidence of an actual Glock frame breaking apart then perhaps we can draw some actual and factual conclusions on the durability of Glock frames.

But an HK breaking tells us no more about a Glocks durability than it does about an XD, an M&P, Sig, Taurus , Ruger, Kel-Tec, or any other polymer frame.

They're all made by different companies with their own recipe for the polymer, their own dimensions and thickness for the frame, and none of them are exactly the same.


But yet the internet experts feel qualified to use one gun from one company failling under extreme conditions as proof of the inferiority of ALL polymer frames.

 

[Kiln]

I have little doubt that a fall that hard would have left even a steel gun damaged, obviously it wouldn't have snapped in half but it might have bent enough that it would be a single shot if not completely unsafe to fire.

 

[Slamfire]

The author of that piece has a bias against polymer pistols. So what, the incident proves nothing other than you can roll an ATV on a person hard enough to kill the person (or in this case injury them) and bust their equipment.

Who can doubt that you can slam a Border Patrol agent with sufficient velocity against a hard barrier that will flatten both the agent and his all metal sidearm?

Fan boys love to take these isolated incidents to prove their prejudices. I remember going through the Cavalry Journals of the 1920’s. The US Army still had a large and vocal group of horse cavalry troopers determined to prove that horse cavalry was still not only relevant, but dominant, in the era of the combustion engine. I still remember one cover which showed a trooper and a horse tumbling down a sand dune precipice. The caption was “There will always be Cavalry”!

 

[Manco]

Yep, plastic can break. IMO this is why all metal handguns are a better general issue choice for troops.

But metal frames can break, too, or warp enough to render the gun inoperable. Obviously it depends on the amount of force applied and its direction. And perhaps some polymer pistol frames could survive forces of greater magnitude than typical metal frames without undergoing permanent deformation--we can't know without destructive testing (under controlled conditions).

I'm a big Glock fan for LE and CCW, but, in service, I do not believe a plastic gun would last 20+ years like the 92fs has or 40+ years like some 1911s did.

Glocks seem pretty tough to me--I bet that some would. HKs seem pretty tough, too, so the same goes for them.

Does HK use the same polymer as Glock?

No, HK's "polymer" frames are made of a fiber-reinforced composite--I don't know what its constituent materials are, but they're probably glass fibers in a thermoplastic matrix (i.e. fiberglass).

But an HK breaking tells us no more about a Glocks durability than it does about an XD, an M&P, Sig, Taurus , Ruger, Kel-Tec, or any other polymer frame.

That's right, as they're all different designs that use different materials in their frames, as you said. We have no way of knowing for sure, but it is within the realm of possibility that a Glock frame could have survived this incident because the plastic its frame is made of is less or not reinforced, which means that it can bend (temporarily) more than a highly-reinforced HK frame can without shattering. Then again, maybe such bending would have deformed (permanently) the magazine or other internal metal parts, rendering the gun inoperable even if the frame didn't break.

The only things we're told by the incident in question are that "polymer" is not indestructible and that composite frames can fail catastrophically when overstressed. That's it, nothing else, really, and nothing that we shouldn't already have known beforehand. Without more information, this incident does not necessarily reflect poorly upon HK's polymer pistols, let alone Glocks and every other polymer pistol out there.

 

[Skylerbone]

I would suggest that anyone wishing to test their theories on the indestructible nature of any firearm first unload it then proceed to the driveway to pound it magwell-first into the concrete. My guess is neither pride nor pistol will survive.

 

[dondavis3]

To compare a Glock to a HK is a joke.

 

[del4]

I don't have a lot of knowledge on metals but I know that frames on 1911's are fairly easily bent. a lot of care has to be taken when adjusting slide to frame fit and putting them in vices. I have seen them melt to foil just after a quick pass by a cutting torch.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

 

[FireInCairo]

I love steel framed guns as much as anybody, but I don't really think this is fair guys.

First, this is not just a fall. When I read the thread title, i thought a gun fell off a table or something and broke. This was a four wheeling accident that sent a man to the hospital.

Second, BPAs carry lots of stuff on their belts, like cops. Who knows if the gun hit a rock on one side when he landed, and a baton or cuffs or some other hard thing directly on the other side of the grip causing an extreme amount of force and hard-on-hard contact.

Third, it could very well be that while the gun broke it absorbed energy that otherwise would have been transferred into the officer's body had be been carrying a metal framed gun. For all we know, this saved him from worse injury and is the reason why his hospital stay was short.

Fourth, as some others pointed out, I have no idea if a steel gun would have come through unscathed either.

Fair enough, I should have been clearer when making the title. I don't know a ton about semiautos, and have a natural distrust of plastics due to the extent manufacturers have taken the term "non-durable." But I thought it was an interesting story for this forum to check into.

Really, I bet the gun endured a large amount of weight and pressure before it snapped. I bet a large man, backed by a heavy atv, at just the right point of pressure made it happen. Probably just a fluke.

I actually think that the fact that you can lighten up a weapon with polymer makes certain guns more attractive.

 

[huntershooter]

"Polymer"/plastic-whatever.....

 

[MarshallDodge]

Just in case anybody needed any evidence that a steel frame gun would have faired better, I want to use this example as a reminder that all guns have their weaknesses:

“About ten years ago, I was working as an armed-plain clothed-security officer. During a struggle with an arrested subject the Combat Commander I was carrying cocked and locked, holstered in a Bianchi “Pancake” on my strong side hip, struck the center door jam of a set of double doors. The center door jam was knocked loose, and two belt loops were torn off of my jeans. The hammer was bent inward and the safety would not move. A gunsmith had to press out the safety, hammer pin, and sear pin. The edge of the sear had cracked off, and a piece of one hammer hook also cracked off. The gun did not discharge upon that impact. I have carried several Colt’s, including that repaired Commander for most of my adult life, and have never once worried about the weapon (myself or someone else is a different story, but not the gun).”

Take care of your gun and it will take care of you.

 

[benzy2]

Freak accidents can turn any firearm unusable. Maybe a steal or alloy frame would have survived, maybe not. Maim sure there are some specific situations where a quality polymer frame comes out fine and a metal framed pistol comes out busted and the opposite as well. To state a single incident as fact why one design or even polymer type is better than another is misleading at best.

 

[dondavis3]

@ benzy2

So true.

They must have a hidden agenda.

I personally think people should use what they want.