Proposing new bullet for ROA (and Italian clones 44 cal.)

Boy, I'm glad my revolvers all function accurately with the molds, bullets and balls that I have. Never knew that reaming the chambers was such a problem. !!! My 1862 put four out of five bullets into the same hole the other day.

So, as far as I know, barrel re-lining is not quite the rocket science that chamber reaming seems to be...what about re-lining the barrel to a smaller bore diameter? I realize that the hollow base bullet sounds like a simple solution, but will one ever get the desired level of accuracy from such a miss-match, hollow base or not?
 
I will be happy getting from Ruger Old Army 2" at 25 yards and velocity 900 fps, with noted 255 grains bullets. Of course, Triple 7 needs to be used.

If FFFg black powder is used, capacity in ROA with 255 grains bullet is about 30 grains of FFFg black powder. In Uberti 1858 Target cylinder chamber is shorter for about .030", so capacity is bit less than in ROA.
 
Getting 2" on 25 yards would be something. However, if you open those videos on post #16, and others here https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Ruger+Old+Army+Powder+projectile+test , you will find some 2.5" groups. So, I am assuming that with good bullets and some powder load tweaking, 2" might not be too difficult to get.

As for 900 fps, it could be done with Triple 7, see second video on post #16. Regarding FFFFG, not available in my area, just FFFG. As for Triple 7, I will have to go to Slovenia and get it. I've heard that some shooters don't like it, but some do. A fellow shooter here, who also shoots in UK, told me that he even prefers Triple 7 over Swiss BP. He shoots just round balls and that might make difference from shooting conicals.
 
I’ve had good success with T7… it’s compression sensitive so your loading technique is important.

Here in the states it’s easily forgotten that parts and materials which are common and easily sourced may not be in other parts of the world. WRT reaming chambers, I’ve done it by hand, holding the cylinder in a vice and the reamer chucked in a battery powered drill, (worked but not recommended.) if I have to do a cylinder now I clamp the cylinder in my mill vise on the drill press table, chuck the reamer in the press and hand turn the reamer. This works extremely well. Again, if I screwed something up perhaps cylinders are more readily and cheaply accessible here. (They don’t necessarily require a gunsmith to fit them.)

As always, your mileage may vary. Best of luck with your project.
 
I'm good with minute of wolf at 50 yards in my 44's. I've always thought that about a 220 grain bullet would be about "optimum", as far as having good bullet weight, but still leaving room for lots of powder. My only mold is the LEE 200 grain, and I'm getting around 30 grains under it. Maybe 35? I forget. However, looks like the 250's+ you guys are shooting are packing a good punch.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
I'm good with minute of wolf at 50 yards in my 44's. I've always thought that about a 220 grain bullet would be about "optimum", as far as having good bullet weight, but still leaving room for lots of powder. My only mold is the LEE 200 grain, and I'm getting around 30 grains under it. Maybe 35? I forget. However, looks like the 250's+ you guys are shooting are packing a good punch.
Click to expand...
Everything is a compromise with these old guns. Some of them shoot the heavies very well with good power. Some are best suited for the middleweights, and some need a plain old ball to really shine. It’s good to have options.
 
I'm a little more familiar with the .36". I have a good variety, a bunch of 142 grain Kaidos, a bullet that's based on the Colt bullet, but with flat nose/metplat, and another based on the Remington bullet, but with a flat nose. Also the Lee 130 grain RN is a good one in the .36", but dang if I can find the mold for it. Then I have a bunch of bullets that the "Outlaw Kid" cast up for me, which is "kind of" based on the LEE REAL. It's the best shooter I have in my Remington .36.
 
I've got some .36 bullets someone gave me that are copies of the Richmond Laboratories bullets made by the south during the war but I haven't tried them yet. I need to, I want to see how they do. They were cast in an Era's Gone mold.
 
We would appreciate if you could make a nice pictures of those 36 caliber bullets, lined to show them sideways, and second picture of bases, if any has a hollow one.

My next BP revolver will be 36, 1858, target, stainless, made by Pietta. As far as I know, they are the only one making them. They suppose to run one batch beginning of last spring. Unfortunately, despite all my efforts, I couldn't arrange export from Italy in my place because of all those agreements, restrictions and unwillingness to help from distributors. Will see when next batch is going and will try again.

Here is one sold in UK, see the price in link bellow:

36-pietta-remington1858-army-inox-target-stainless-muzzle-loading-revolver-used.jpg

https://www.shootingandscuba.co.uk/...inox-target-stainless-muzzle-loading-revolver
 
hawg said:
I've got some .36 bullets someone gave me that are copies of the Richmond Laboratories bullets made by the south during the war but I haven't tried them yet. I need to, I want to see how they do. They were cast in an Era's Gone mold.
Click to expand...

I think I saw a video by the the Eras-Gone guy shooting them, and they did well.
 
Onty said:
We would appreciate if you could make a nice pictures of those 36 caliber bullets, lined to show them sideways, and second picture of bases, if any has a hollow one.

My next BP revolver will be 36, 1858, target, stainless, made by Pietta. As far as I know, they are the only one making them. They suppose to run one batch beginning of last spring. Unfortunately, despite all my efforts, I couldn't arrange export from Italy in my place because of all those agreements, restrictions and unwillingness to help from distributors. Will see when next batch is going and will try again.

Here is one sold in UK, see the price in link bellow:

View attachment 1107064

https://www.shootingandscuba.co.uk/...inox-target-stainless-muzzle-loading-revolver
Click to expand...

Could do that, won't be today. !!! Here's a pic of my .36". This was a sample gun that Uberti's daughter (or one of them) used to show potential dealers when she was the U.S. sales rep. She was friends with a friend of mine, and gave him this when she went back to Italy. He later sold it to me, still NIB.
remnvyotft.jpg
 
An answer to a problem that could be fixed by Italians effortlessly. All they have to do is drill oversized chambers. Then the bullet is already oversized when loaded into the gun and there is no need for hollow base - oversized bullet will engage rifling nicely on its own.

But I suppose, they do it on purpose. All their 'premium' guns have oversized chambers. Their serial guns do not to give you a reason to pay extra.

Hollow base makes sense in a muzzleloading rifle where you need to quickly push an undersized barrel through the bore and that bullet must expand to engage rifling. In a revolver you should be loading an oversized bullet in the first place but ... Italians.
 
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Time for update! I contacted MP-Molds https://www.mp-molds.com/ , and looks like that there is a chance that prototype mold for bullet, hollow base conical for or Ruger Old Army and Italian 44 clones, will be made. Here is the latest version:

mJ8HbKz.jpg

As you could see, aft side of lube groove has a two slopes, first 30 degrees and second one 10 degrees. Idea was to make easier for lube to get "injected" between bullet and barrel, to leave some sort of lube film behind bullet. I hope that this will prevent leading and to have some powder residue deposited on the lube, so it could be easier to scrape by next bullet.

For those who would like to read more how I came to this design, please go to https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...how-it-compares-with-multigroove-ones.912960/ .

Would this work? Well, the only way is to make a mold, cast bullets and fire them. Hope to have mold done and bullet tested within next few months. Will keep you posted...
 
After reading considerably about chainfire, including about experiment with loaded revolver, but no caps (and no chainfire), and latest here Chain fire on Walker | Page 2 | The High Road , I finally decide to go with this version of new bullet for Ruger Old Army and some Italian clones:

xVXwA1t.jpg

Just sent data to a bullet mold manufacturer, hope to see first mold some time this spring. Will let you know how it shoots.
 
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Onty said:
After reading considerably about chainfire, including about experiment with loaded revolver, but no caps (and no chainfire), and latest here Chain fire on Walker | Page 2 | The High Road , I finally decide to go with this version of new bullet for Ruger Old Army and some Italian clones:

View attachment 1140720

Just sent data to a bullet mold manufacturer, hope to see first mold some time this spring. Will let you know how it shoots.
Click to expand...

Awesome brother! Let us know how she shoots
 
Here are two interesting videos about chainfire, what is causing it, and how to fix revolver:

Cap and Ball Revolver CHAINFIRE MYTH We've All Been Told - YouTube

Chain fire in cap & ball revolvers the fix - YouTube

We assume that chambers in cylinder are nice, smooth, round, straight, etc. Unfortunately, that is not the case, those imperfections are, more or less, always there. Also, soft lead is not flexible, once bullet is pushed in the chamber, and chamber down 1/2" has tad bigger dia chamber than on mouth, soft lead CANNOT SEAL. Some propose a lubricant over bullet. Good idea, however, others say that lube itself is not enough, and if bullet is bit loose in chamber, chainfire is still possible.

To address this problem, I think that chamfering cylinder is an excellent idea, but, to make a really good seal, I left one small groove, so 1mm thick O-ring could be installed. Would this work as intended, I have no idea. But, as they say "proof is in the pudding". I keep my fingers crossed...
 
I have successfully used Lyman 450225, A hollow based semi wad cutter designed originally for the 1858 Remington. Looks like yours but shorter.IIRC, it weighed about 160 grains. I've also used the Lee 45-220R which was made for the ROA. Round nose, 220 grains. I think I'd like yours better than either of mine.
 
Onty said:
I think that chamfering cylinder is an excellent idea, but, to make a really good seal, I left one small groove, so 1mm thick O-ring could be installed. Would this work as intended, I have no idea. But, as they say "proof is in the pudding". I keep my fingers crossed...
Click to expand...

Nothing like trying to see. It would be interesting to see how the O ring affects accuracy with the heat and flame and friction from going down the barrel.
 
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