Proposing new bullet for ROA (and Italian clones 44 cal.)

hawg said:
Nothing like trying to see. It would be interesting to see how the O ring affects accuracy with the heat and flame and friction from going down the barrel.
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My thoughts exactly. I guess a super high-temp O-ring would survive... but how pricey would they be?
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Has it ever actually happened? (lube over bullet?)
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See this video Chain fire in cap & ball revolvers the fix - YouTube , time 5:45.

As for removing burr on chambers, and making a nice bullet fit, things could still go wrong if camber is wider deeper down more than on mouth, or out of round in same area. In that case, a nice tight fit and sealing at the beginning of chamber wouldn't be any more when bullet goes deeper.
 
1KPerDay said:
Pretty sure expanding BP gases are hotter than 250 degrees. Let us know what happens!
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Condition No. 1; chambers should be chamfered. I will do using no more than 60 degrees chamfering tool. The best available IMO is 11 degrees for barrel forcing cone. I would rather press whole bullet in the chamber, than shaving it. Can't ask for better fit! Apparently, ramming force is even smaller.

So, even if there is something wrong with a chamber, and bullet to chamber fit isn't 100%, amount of gas and its temperature after passing bullet IMO shouldn't burn O-ring, that is constantly deformed and pressing against chamber's wall.
 
Hopefully. But every firearm I’ve ever seen in slow motion has some gas blow-by that exits the muzzle in front of the bullet.
 
Onty said:
amount of gas and its temperature after passing bullet IMO shouldn't burn O-ring, that is constantly deformed and pressing against chamber's wall.
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I tells ya, it's the dwell time. Like passing your hand quickly through a welding torch to amaze others. Try holding the torch on your hand for one second, that's a different story.
 
1KPerDay said:
Hopefully. But every firearm I’ve ever seen in slow motion has some gas blow-by that exits the muzzle in front of the bullet.
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That is one of reasons bullet has hollow base. O-ring is just to seal the chamber from moisture, lubricant (if applied on front side of bullet) and hot gases. Also, although in smaller percentage, to hold bullet in the place, to prevent it from "walking" forward under recoil.

As for recoil, see this video . Well, not as much as when shooting full power 44 Magnum using 300 grain bullet, but still, it is considerable.
 
Did anyone notice the flame at the rear of cylinder at 38 seconds on the 3rd shot?
Looks like this could have caused a chain fire???
Just asking....;)
 
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Hmmm… maybe it’s just me Onty but I’m still still unconvinced. I believe you’d be time and money ahead just buying two Lee conical molds. One for the Ruger and one for the Italians. They’re accurate, they fit the intended revolvers bores, hit with authority, allow plenty of space for an adequate powder charge, and they don’t walk under recoil.

Like the punchline to an old American joke goes… “The bear taps the hunter on the shoulder and says, “You’re not in this for the hunting are you…”” All the best in your endeavors Onty.
 
I am not saying that chainfire from the aft side is not possible. Of course, it could happened. However, from what I found, majority of chainfires started from the front.

Talking about flame propagation from the back, that is the reason I like idea of using those elastic sleeves over primers. And if I am not mistaken, elastic sleeve reduces cup's disintegration. Unfortunately, I cannot find video.

However, I found something else; option using small pistol (boxer) primers with plastic sleeves, instead of percussion cups Cheap Black Powder Shoots - Quick Tips - YouTube . That elastic sleeve should hold a primer in the place, and also prevent flame from igniting primers (and powder) in other chambers. Very neat idea. Searching now stores in my area to find suitable elastic tube. If my Ruger Old Army could take small pistol primers, a big problem will be solved. Those percussion cups are sometime hard to find. On top of that, in my area, they are 10 times (yes, TEN TIMES) or even more, expensive than small pistol primers.
 
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Onty said:
I am not saying that chainfire from the aft side is not possible. Of course, it could happened. However, from what I found, majority of chainfires started from the front.

Talking about flame propagation from the back, that is the reason I like idea of using those elastic sleeves over primers. And if I am not mistaken, elastic sleeve reduces cup's disintegration. Unfortunately, I cannot find video.

However, I found something else; option of using small pistol (boxer) primers with plastic sleeves, instead of percussion cups Cheap Black Powder Shoots - Quick Tips - YouTube . That elastic sleeve should hold a primer in the place, and also prevent flame from igniting primers (and powder) in other chambers. Very neat idea. Searching now stores in my area to find suitable elastic tube. If my Ruger Old Army could take small pistol primers, a big problem will be solved. Those percussion cups are sometime hard to find. On top of that, in my area, they are 10 times (yes, TEN TIMES) or even more, expensive than small pistol primers.
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Methinks that if a regular percussion cap fits tight enough, no flame can get through. I found that with a very tight cap, water does not get in. It is a fine line to walk, and the cap has to fit very tight, but at the same time fully seat with some extra pressure. Either a dowel, or as I do, just fully seat them with the hammer. (and no, don't point it at your best friend or a child when doing that!) The way to achieve that is to start with cones that are too big/tight, and turn them down in a drill press until you get the perfect fit. Once pressed on with the hammer or dowel, one should not be able to get it back off with a thumb nail, should require the pocket knife or a small sharp screw-driver. Then it will be both water and flame proof.

It certainly is a faster way to load the gun, especially in the field, compared to messing with plastic sleeves, cartridge primers, etc.
 
lv2tinker said:
Did anyone notice the flame at the rear of cylinder at 38 seconds on the 3rd shot?
Looks like this could have caused a chain fire???
Just asking....;)
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Indeed, when you fire a revolver on camera, in slow-mo, one will see lots of fire and flame at the rear. (and a lot of hammer bounce-back) However, people experimenting with leaving caps completely off the nipples of charged chambers are not getting chain fires. ? To me at least, it is still a mystery.

When I got my one and only chain fire with my 1860, it was after many years of shooting the pistol with pinched caps, and ball over powder, no wads. And no shaved ring-O-lead. So I'm not sure if you can do that experiment even dozens of times and come to a conclusion. My pistol fired hundreds of rounds in that pinched cap and no wads condition, before a chain fire occurred. In my case, it was the one and only time I tried 777. But I have not seen where any others have had chain fires only with that powder. ? So again, I'm only 98% in the camp that chain fires come from the front. I think they do...but...? I guess I would say that a chain fire from the rear is not an "impossibility". Just not likely.

After my chain fire, I still loaded the gun the same for a year or so, thinking 777 was the cause, but then started using lubed wads until I found they did contaminate the powder, then wax wads until I found they did stick to the ball all the way to the target, and now my "final evolution", which is tight fitting caps and lube over ball. (LUBE PILLS!!! NOT greasy kid stuff)
 
lv2tinker said:
Did anyone notice the flame at the rear of cylinder at 38 seconds on the 3rd shot?
Looks like this could have caused a chain fire???
Just asking....;)
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Actually, flame is visible also at second shot, 33 seconds. Considering all this, IMO ideal situation will be having a cylinder with back plate and firing pin, using shotgun 209 primers. This primer, if soft enough, will instantly seal a chamber upon firing, no flame going backward. I would say flame propagation impossible. And no percussion primers' fragments to lock mechanism. Last thing I want is canting revolver on right after every shot. I had seen that on few videos.

Well, I tried, but... Any interest for smokeless powder cylinder with 209 primers for Ruger Old Army? | The High Road. To give you idea, it should work like charm with black too.
 
Onty said:
Last thing I want is canting revolver on right after every shot. I had seen that on few videos.
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Methinks, no proof or documentation, that many of the old timers flipped the revolver up and back when cocking, to throw off the spent cap. I did that for years with my 1860. It worked. I don't think canting the revolver is as effective. (and to me, looks kind of dumb) Certainly not as dramatic as bringing the revolver up and back, but that of course would horrify the range-officer. In the wilderness or my back yard, there is no range-officer. However, a cap-post and action shield will solve the cap-jam problem, even if hammer blow-back is the main problem.

As far as modern primers, back plates and firing pins, why not just shoot a cartridge gun? That, to me, seems like re-inventing the wheel, but making the wheel square...or octagon. And making it ten times more complicated. I have come to believe, but may be wrong, that very tight fitting caps, and lube over ball will prevent any chain fire. As Hawg as mentioned, and also makes sense to me, a bullet with it's long bearing surface and lube grooves will also stop chain fires from the front.
 
Would thicker primer's metal cup solve problem of disintegrating primers? Apparently, old primers in heydays of C&B revolvers had thicker cups, and didn't have this problem.
 
Onty said:
Would thicker primer's metal cup solve problem of disintegrating primers? Apparently, old primers in heydays of C&B revolvers had thicker cups, and didn't have this problem.
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I have heard both, that they were thicker, or much thinner. ?? The thinner theory being that they flaked/fell off better when they were more disintegrated. ?? But I have no idea, must be collectors out there who have original tins of caps. ?
 
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