Question for those in "Right to Carry" states

[marklbucla]

I just wrapped up a trip to see the in-laws around the Houston area. While there, I saw a sign outside of a convenience store that said that it's a felony of some sort to bring a weapon into a place where they sell or serve alcohol. Whether or not this is right, it does make me wonder what you all do in states that have more restrictive CCW laws. Do you holster/unholster everytime you get into the car? If so, where do you put it? Just carry inside anyway? Not carry at all?

 

[Cousin Mike]

I'm from Ohio...

Ohio has some of the dumber carry laws - my main gripe being our "plain sight while in a vehicle," clause. That's a royal pain in the ass sometimes, moving it from this holster to that holster, just so I can put it back in the first holster when I get to my destination. Hopefully that will change soon. FWIW I'm the only person I know with a CHL that actually follows that stupid rule.. Most just keep it concealed while driving. Me?

I'm not chancing it.

As for alcohol - can't carry anywhere alcohol is served for consumption on the premises (certain restaraunts), or anywhere that the sale of alcohol = more than 51% of the total income... In other words, no bars, clubs, or liquor stores. You CAN, however, carry into a store that sells alcohol, so convenience stores, grocery stores / supermarkets and quickie-mart type places don't apply to that.

If I'm going somewhere and I KNOW I can't carry there, I just don't carry.. It's really that simple. I don't chance it. I also try to limit how often I go to those places. Considering that I don't drink very often at all (maybe 3 times a year, if that), and don't go out to eat very much (about as often as I drink), it's something I almost never have to worry about.

 

[Pro_Gun]

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/

As I read it it unlawful to carry at business that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcohol for on-premises consumption

 

[FTF]

In GA you cannot carry at any establishment that sells alcohol for consumption on the premesis. Applebees, Chilis, Outback... off limits. Do I feel safer in a restaurant that serves alcohol, if I am not drinking, than one that doesn't?

That being said...

No comment.

 

[Nitrogen]

The sign you saw in a convenience store in Texas said that it's a felony to carry there without a CHL. (Usually its a misdemeanor.)

Texas allows you to carry, licensed, anywhere where alcohol is served or consumed as long as 51% or more of the revenues of the place are not derived for on premise consumption. Meaning Joe's Bar is off limits, but Joe's liquor store is not. Also, resturants like Cheesecake factory, or Chilis that have bars are just fine to carry.

Now to answer your question, avoid places where I cannot carry as much as possible. I am not the type to visit bars, unless i'm entertaining clients and they insist. I hope I never have to show up in a courthouse, as well.

And if any business decides to post a legally binding sign prohibiting carry, I'll take my money elsewhere. For a sign to be legally binding, it has to meet exacting standards. (The lettering must be contrasting, must be at least 1" high, and the text must match whats in the texas statutes, and be in english and spanish.)

 

[TexasRifleman]

Yes, the sign you saw said the unlicensed carrying of a firearm is a felony in those places.

That's pretty standard stuff.

The other sign relevant in Texas is the 51% sign seen in places that get more than 51% of their revenue from alcohol sales (bars).

No carrying in bars, which is fine since you probably won't be in a bar unless you are drinking and if you are drinking you shouldn't carry anyway (though you will get endless debate otherwise).

 

[mljdeckard]

In Utah, you can be where alcohol is consumed, but you cannot carry while intoxicated. The legal standard for carrying drunk is the same as for driving drunk.

 

[armedpolak]

Florida

Law says: "any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption", and according to Jon Gutmacher's "FLORIDA FIREARMS Laws, Use & Ownership" I'm fine if i'm in a restaurant with a bar section, as long as I don't step into the bar area, I can even have drinks while having dinner, as long as not at the bar.

AMC Movie theaters have a sign "No weapons allowed"... this is how much I care... see, there legally, they have no grounds, as long as I leave if asked, then again, they whould have to know I'm packing

 

[Bruce333]

NC law prohibits any kind of carry where alcohol is sold for consumption on the premisis. I don't drink and we very rarely eat out. I also have one of these in both vehicles, in case I do have to go in somewhere that is posted/off limits by law.

I mostly avoid places I can't carry, that said, my work is posted:banghead: and it's in the employee handbook too (no chance of getting that changed either, HQ is in Illinois).

 

[HerrWolfe]

Tennessee restricts CC anywhere alcohol is served, plus a few other places. I make it a point to not carry if I must go to those places, otherwise I just do not go there, i.e. if a restaurant serves alcohol, I do not go to that restaurant. In the few instances where I am carrying and must go to a location or into a building where state law disallows concealed carry, I leave the firearm in the vehicle, unloaded, and I take the clip/magazine with me. I believe it absurd that the laws on CC are written in this manner, but there are other laws just as absurd, and I still get along. When retail establishments realize they are missing out on some revenue (which CC folks can affect), they might be inclined to get with the program and reality.

 

[marklbucla]

Yes, the sign you saw said the unlicensed carrying of a firearm is a felony in those places.

I waited in the car and stared at the sign for a couple of minutes. I'm certain that it didn't say anything about provisions being made for people with permits. I could be wrong, but I'm 99.9% certain that it didn't.

Either way, it's I'm curious as to what people do when they are not legally allowed to carry.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I'm sorry, you simply read the sign wrong.

Here are the relevant regulations from the Texas Alcohol Beverage Commission on this.

If you did indeed read it correctly then the store is in violation and could lose their liquor license.

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/help/General.htm

What signs are required to be posted at an off-premise establishment such as a convenience store or grocery store?

Three signs are required to be posted at an off-premise retail establishment:

* Weapons Warning Sign: It is unlawful to carry a weapon on the premises unless the person is licensed to carry the weapon under the concealed handgun law.
* Consumption Warning Sign: It is a crime (misdemeanor) to consume liquor or beer on these premises.
* Public Interest Information Sign - if you have a complaint about the sale or service of alcoholic beverages in this establishment, please contact the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission, PO Box 13127, Austin, Texas 78711-3127, or phone 1-888-THE-TABC.

# I have seen two types of signs posted in retail establishments regarding concealed weapons. What is the difference between the two?

All alcoholic beverage retailers must post one of two firearms signs.

The 51% sign is required to be posted on the premises of establishments where the possession of any concealed weapon is illegal. These are establishments that are licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption whose alcohol sales constitutes more than half of their gross receipts. These signs have 51% in large red letters superimposed over the warning which notes that possession of a concealed weapon on the premises is a felony.

Establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premise consumption or establishments licensed to sell for on-premises consumption whose alcohol sales are 50% or less of total gross receipts are required to post a sign that warns that the unlicensed possession of a concealed weapon is a felony. The holder of a concealed handgun license may lawfully possess a concealed handgun on these premises.

Either way, it's I'm curious as to what people do when they are not legally allowed to carry.

Well in Texas it's very rare that it comes up to be honest. Unless I am going to the Courthouse for something I don't run into the problem.
For the rare retail store that posts the proper sign I simply spend my money elsewhere.

Picking the kid up from school isn't an issue in Texas either, since parking lots and streets are not "school premises" as defined in the Penal Code.

And I'm not afraid of the Post Office either, regardless of the endless debate on THAT topic.

So if it does come up I just drop it in the glove box for the short time needed and keep the leather on.

 

[marklbucla]

Now, I do have a bit of a cold, and may not have been seeing things correctly, but I don't think it was any of the above.

It said that it's a felony to carry a weapon on premises, and then it made a reference to some legal code.

If it helps at all, it was on the west side of Austin Highway 6 near HBC between Sugar Land and Missouri City, if anyone here lives close by. I didn't have my camera phone handy.

Anyway, I do take your word for it. But that along with other signs people have mentioned in other states made me wonder how good these "Shall Issue" permits really are.

 

[TexasRifleman]

made me wonder how good these "Shall Issue" permits really are.

Absolutely and a good question.

In my opinion it's having reciprocity with other states can be the dangerous part.

I for example am very familiar with Texas law, but if I go to a state that Texas has reciprocity with, I would be subject to THAT states' statutes which I might not know very well at all.

What might be perfectly legal in Texas might get me tossed in the can in another state, even if my permit was honored.

 

[UglyGlock]

in Washington, "that portion of a resteraunt or estableshment that is off limits to persons under 21 years of age" is also off limits for the concealed pistol. It's not much of a problem, because i don't go to bars anyway. and if i do go to a bar, then i would be drinking and would leave the gun locked up somewhere.

 

[mnrivrat]

marklbucla

Is there a difference between states that have "shall issue" permits and the permits of the states that do not have the shall issue ?

I think all states put some restrictions on where you can carry. TexasSIGman makes a good point about the restrictions being different between states that recognize each others permits. One has to be careful to know the laws of the state you are carrying in at the time.

Minnesota allows carry within places that serve alcohol as long as you do not exceed a .04 blood alcohol . ( 1/2 the legal driving limit ). Posted signs have regulations regarding what size they have to be, lettering size, and ignoring the signs means that you are subject to being asked to leave. It is only if you do not leave when asked that you are subject to a mistimeanor (sp?) .

There are some area's that are prohibited - such as schools ,court house, post office, federal buildings that do not have to post signs as far as I know, and carry within them could get you in a heap of trouble. In cases like that ,the gun stays in the car , but travel to those restricted places seldom occures for me, so not much of a problem.

 

[Taurus 66]

While there, I saw a sign outside of a convenience store that said that it's a felony of some sort to bring a weapon into a place where they sell or serve alcohol. Whether or not this is right, it does make me wonder what you all do in states that have more restrictive CCW laws.

I'm not absolute as to the laws in upstate NY with a convenience store displaying a sign saying it's a felony to CCW inside. If I did see the sign before entering, they would lose my business. It's not much, but it would mean a lot more to me than to the corner store because I would be abiding by the law, thus retaining my freedom and RKBA rights. That's what's important.

Any establishments putting up these signs would be avoided. Apparently these businesses want criminals as their customers. I cannot facilitate their needs. Sorry ... I walk the High Road.

 

[Zonamo]

Arizona prohibits possession of a firearm on the premises of an "on-sale" retailer, which includes anyone with a liquor license. (ARS 4-244) Violation is a Class 2 misdemeanor, punishable by a maximum fine of $ 750.00. (ARS 13-802) The Arisona Concealed Carry Permit law does not mention misdemeanor convictions as a cause for revocation or supsension of the permit. (ARS 13-3112)

The Arizona Legislature passed a bill in 2005 to allow carry at all "on-sale" retailers as long as you don't drink. Bars could still post a "No Guns" sign if they wanted to. Text of Bill The media played up the "drunken gunners" angle, and the the Governor vetoed it because "alcohol and guns don't mix," even though it was still illegal according to the bill to mix them.

In 2006, an amendment to allow concealed carry at "restaurant licensees" was tacked on to a bill modifying restaurants licenses. Text of Amendment. Hopefully it will be reintroduced in the next Legislature. The governor will have a lot harder time using a veto on a bill for carry in restaurants only.

 

[Rickstir]

In Missouri, you cannot carry in a bar that derives more than 51% of their income from alcohol, except if you have the owners permission. Other places it depends. Sometimes I do not take the time to disarm, concealed is concealed. But I live in a small rural gun-friendly town (so friendly I often open carry in town) so it is not a big deal up here.

 

[GhostRider66]

I am actually familiar with the sign he's talking about. The Western Beverage down the street from me has one posted. I seem to remember the sign from the pre-CHL days. It essentially states that carrying a gun onto the premises (no mention of license or not) is illegal - 10 years, etc. I have not bothered to inquire about it cause it doesn't have any legal weight. The store is fairly new but their corporate office probably just keeps sticking the old signs on there.

On a similar topic, I have noticed quite a few places that don't serve alcohol at all on premises (convenience stores, Walgreens, etc) posting the sign you see in restaurants that serve alcohol (less that 50% sign). I know this is patently incorrect but my feeling is to not raise awareness of this because 1) it doesn't affect my carrying at all and 2) I'd hate for these people to become aware and start posting 30.06 signs if that is their true intent.

 

[TexasRifleman]

It essentially states that carrying a gun onto the premises (no mention of license or not) is illegal - 10 years, etc. I have not bothered to inquire about it cause it doesn't have any legal weight.

According to TABC they could lose their license for that, but I doubt anyone is worrying that much about it. That's probably what the OP saw in Houston, one of the old signs.

One more reason to really know the law in your state rather than trust to signs and such.

 

[Mainsail]

UglyGlock mentioned this:

…"that portion of a restaurant or establishment that is off limits to persons under 21 years of age"

I will clarify it with a bolding of the word portion. This means if I want to carry while eating at TGI Friday’s, I can, I just can’t walk into the bar area.
I can carry in the airport (just (duh) not past the security screening area.)

For as flaming liberal as this state seems to be, Washington has some of the better gun laws of the states.

 

[thumbody]

In Michigan you can carry in a convenience store that sells alchohol. You can also carry in a restaraunt as long as 50% or less of their business is from sales of alchohol. No carry in bars.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

In Arizona you cannot carry in any place that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises, even a restaurant that has a cocktail lounge. If going to one, depending on the circumstances I will leave the gun in my vehicle, or at home.

 

[Eyesac]

Thank goodness Nevada has no laws of this kind... There's no where you can't carry (except schools or federal buildings), even buisnesses that post a sign that saying no weapons are to be ignored.