Questions for NY and NJ based members

[chaim]

I know this post is going to get a lot of "don't do it" responses. That isn't helpful. Please stick with the actual questions.

I am considering a move to NJ or the NY area (not NYC). I'm looking at Passaic NJ, Lakewood NJ and Monsey NY (in Rockland County). The reasons aren't really appropriate for this board so please don't try to get into a discussion of why I would do it (to defend the idea means getting into things that are far from gun related- they are better suited to an Orthodox Judaism discussion board).

Gun considerations are one concern of course. I know both NY state and NJ are bad, but how bad compared to MD? What do I have that I'd have to get rid of? What hoops would I have to jump through?

-"Assault weapons": What is and is not allowed? I'm pretty sure both states have AWBs. My AR is a HBAR, does this make a difference? Here in MD HBAR is not treated as an "assault rifle" and has no additional regulations that any regular rifle doesn't while a regular AR is a controlled firearm with all the stuff we have to go through for a pistol. So, would I have to sell my AR? How about the SKS? Would my fixed mag (tubular mag) Marlin 60 be a problem since it holds 14 rounds?

-Mag limits? In MD we are limited to 20 rounds. What is the limit in NY and in NJ? Assuming my AR is okay, would I be able to keep my 20 rounders? Would I be able to keep my 15 round mags in my SIG 226 and CZ and my 12 rounders in my SIG 229 or would I have to use just 10 rounders?

-Registration and licensing? I know that NY requires a permit to own a gun and it is a local thing (some areas actually give carry permits, NYC makes it almost impossible to even own a handgun). Does anyone know how long the process would be for Rockland County NY? What requirements does NJ have? Would I be able to bring my guns with me, or in either state would they have to stay in MD until I got permission from the state to possess them? Do rifles, shotguns and handguns have the same requirements?

-Carry?: I know NJ is as bad as MD. NY is a local thing. What are the chances to be allowed to carry in Rockland County NY?

-Misc.: Are all areas of NYC treated the same? I know NYers think of Manhattan when you speak of NYC, but there is much more that is politically part of the city. I assume Brooklyn is the same as the rest of NYC, how about Queens or Long Island? Are the more suburban parts of the city treated any differently? I know NJ has some weird law banning JHPs- last I heard it is against carrying them but you can have them at home. Is this the case?

-Is there anything I need to know that I'm leaving out?

 

[ZeSpectre]

NY Laws regarding guns/ccw
§ 400.00 Licenses to carry, possess, repair and dispose of firearms.

First pretend the "assault weapons ban" never sunset. The restrictions listed there are pretty much still in effect. No more than ten rounds in a pistol and I -think- it's something like no more than 5 rounds in a rifle (though I could be misremembering that).

Second, you might as well sell your pistols. Getting the permit varies widely from county to county (for example if you said you were moving to my old home area...Broome County, I'd say just forget it right now) but it takes a lot of TIME and EFFORT to get one assuming you get a friendly judge.

Actually being able to carry that pistol.... Who do you know and what justification can you give to the issuing authority? If you aren't a Judge, LEO, or someone who regularly transports large sums of cash or valuables... good luck <sigh>.

I was born and grew up in upstate NY, then moved to MD then to VA. You are going to get a bunch of NY folks saying "I've lived here all my life, it's not that bad"... sorry, yes it is. I didn't actually realize HOW bad until I moved to VA. (Not to say VA is perfect, but it sure beats NY where the RKBA is cncerned).

You don't want to hear "don't do it" so I won't go any further on that topic, I'll just wish you luck and hope that the rude surprises of living in NY don't hit you too hard.

 

[shield20]

Re NY, start here:

section 265 & section 400
http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/statelaws/26thedition/newyork.pdf


Highlights:

-AWB in effect; hi-cap mags (more than 10rnd) and typical "AW features" must be pre-Sept/94
-No carry/guns on school grounds
-May issue CCW permits - depends on county, unfamiliar with Rockland, others depend on the judge in office; doesn't seem to be anything special for Rockland restriction or permit-wise
-forget NYC - and I assume that means the 5 boroughs only

 

[Prince Yamato]

From the little I know about NJ, you have to register pistols, there's limited AWB and mags are limited to 15 rounds.

For upstate NY: The Federal AWB is still inieffect up there. So whatever you could own (or would pass) under the old AWB, passes in upstate NY. Your AR-15 is AOK in NYS. Note however, that some localities, like the city of Rochester, NY have there own more comprehensive AWB. For pistols and CCW, it's a crapshoot. Find a CCW friendly county. If the move is certain, start contacting the county gun range and make some friends who can act as character references, because those are needed in almost ALL NYS for unrestricted pistol permits. Usually it's 3-5 people who aren't related to you, each-other, and they can't be LEOs or judges.

Alternatively, if you wanted to be near NYC, you could live in gun-friendlier CT. I thinking Sleepy Hollow, NY is kind of gun friendly too and there's a train that will take you to NYC in an hour.

 

[Antipasta]

New Jersey? Forgetaboutit, or take up fishing.

 

[chaim]

If I do NY, it would be Monsey which is in Rockland County. It is not in NYC, but it is a NYC suburb (about 40min away). How far away do you usually have to travel to get away from the NYC craziness? I.E. would owning my handguns in Monsey be feasible, or would I be looking at a 6mo-1yr delay on the permit and possibly needing to hire a lawyer to help get through the maze of regulations?

I will quickly state one of my reasons for considering this.

I am a teacher. I am off summers. I am an Orthodox Jew. I'd like to take 4 or 5 summers and learn Torah full-time in a yeshiva. To do this, the only places around where this would be a real possibility (with a summer and not long-term commitment) would be the NYC area and Israel. Since I am a teacher I can't really afford to support two households during the summer (most apartments require a yearly contract- not 10 months- so I'd need to keep my apartment and find a place in NY or Israel) so moving there is the only real way to make it happen. Moving to the NYC area seems more reasonable than Israel to me. There are other reasons (like more schools for School Psych than in most areas, and some that I could do part-time while working as a teacher unlike most other programs), but my other reasons are similarly long-term but temporary (it would be a few years). If I was looking at NY/NJ gun restrictions for the rest of my life I wouldn't consider it (I was near ready to leave MD due to our restrictions). However, as a temporary measure to advance myself in other areas, I can live with it for a few years.


Anyway, I have another question.

MD laws are pretty restrictive. However, if you bought a gun legally when living in another state, you can bring it here when you move even if you wouldn't be able to legally buy that gun here. Since I bought all my guns legally in MD, would I be able to bring them to either NY or NJ, or do they not grandfather them in like MD?

Would I be able to keep my "high-cap" mags that were legal during the national AWB (i.e. they were made before the ban took effect)?

 

[chaim]

Alternatively, if you wanted to be near NYC, you could live in gun-friendlier CT.

I wasn't thinking about this option. There are Orthodox communities in CT so there would be places I could live. How far are most of the population centers from NYC? From Monsey? Monsey is where the yeshiva I'd most likely attend is located (Brooklyn is another option) so I'd like to be no more than an hour drive from there if possible (maybe an hour and a half, that is my current commute and I hate it- but just for the summer wouldn't be too bad).

 

[Tom488]

In NJ, there is no concept of "pre-ban" vs. "post-ban". We have a named list of firearms that are prohibited (see statute 2C:39-1w, at the below link), and a general set of "guidelines" to define firearms that are "substantially identical" to the list of banned firearms. In essence, that means:

A semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine can have only ONE of the following features: pistol grip, collapsible stock, flash suppressor, threaded barrel that can accept a flash suppressor, bayonet lug, grenade launcher.

If your AR does NOT say "AR-15" or "CAR-15" on the receiver, and only one of the "evil features" in the above list, then you're good to go. Your SKS is fine, and so is your Marlin.

Magazines are strictly limited to 15 rounds or less - pistol, rifle, doesn't matter. Your 20-round AR mags would have to go. All others, as long as they're 15 rounds or less, are fine. We have a source here in NJ for 15-round AR magazines, so that's not a problem.

As for registration, there is no mandatory gun registration in NJ. You are allowed to bring any NJ-legal firearm with you when you move here. You are allowed to keep them in your home, and transport to/and from a range (unloaded, locked in a case or the trunk, ammo separate).

In order to purchase firearms, you have to apply for a Firearms ID card. The cost is around $60 ($54 for fingerprints/background check, $5 for the card), you apply at your local PD, and the time is anywhere between 30 days and 6 months, usually (more likely towards the latter end of that scale). The law says 30 days - but the law in this case matters not. It takes as long as it takes.

That FID gets you the ability to purchase long guns. To purchase pistols, you apply for pistol purchase permits (you can do that in conjunction with the FID application). You can apply for several at once, though some departments may try and limit you to a certain number - again, no basis in law for this. And again, depending on the department, it could take anywhere between a week (for the lucky ones) to 4-6 months. You need one permit for each pistol you purchase.

Carry? Forget about it. Better chance of getting struck by lightning in February. You need your chief of police, and a superior court judge to "agree" that your "justifiably need to carry a handgun" is legitimate. Won't happen.

Hollow-points: yeah, this is weird. Legal to purchase, legal to transport home, legal to possess in your home, legal to transport to/from range. Legal to defend yourself with (so long as the act of self-defense is legal). Illegal to possess anywhere else. Well, since you can't carry, the hollow-point law is almost meaningless. Just don't leave a box in your car and go driving around. Oh, you will be asked for ID upon purchase, and will have your ID recorded by the seller. Whatever...

All NJ firearms laws can be looked up here: NJ Legislature. Click 'Statutes' on the left-hand side. Title 2C, Chapters 39 and 54 deal with firearms.

 

[Tom488]

From the little I know about NJ, you have to register pistols

No, you don't. They get automatically "registered" when you purchase them in-state, but any that you bring with you from out-of-state are perfectly legal.

2C:39-6e covers the OP in transporting his handguns into NJ:

Nothing in subsections b., c., and d. [covers possession of handgun, rifles/shotguns, and other weapons] shall be contrued to prevent a person from keeping or carrying [...] between one place of business or residence and another when moving

Of course, the weapons must all be unloaded, and locked in the trunk of the vehicle (or in a locked case if the vehicle has no trunk), with ammunition stored in a separate case.

 

[sig226]

I lived in northern New Jersey most of my life and sold guns there for nine years.

First of all, don't live in Passaic. It is a hellhole. If you must live in that area, take a look at Ridgefield Park, which is east on Route 46 from Passaic.

I lived in Franklin Lakes, Ramsey, and West Milford. Franklin Lakes and Ramsey are expensive. West Milford is relatively cheap, and the police are pretty good with the gun paperwork, but driving to the Passaic area is a long ride through heavy traffic on bad roads. The last I heard, Ridegefield Park also was pretty good about gun paperwork, but that may have changed.

If you plan to live, hunt, or shoot in New Jersey, you should get a copy of Evan Nappen's book Nappen On New Jersey Gun Laws. New Jersey has two statutes that deal with firearm posession. Chapter 2C:39 controls posession of firearms. Chapter 2C:58 controls the permits and the ugly gun law.

NJ has a list of guns banned by name in the ugly gun law. Your Colt HBAR is not named, so legality is controlled by the list of features maintained by the NJ State Police. A rifle becomes an illegal ugly gun (assault weapon) when it has three or more of these features: detachable magazine; pistol grip; folding or telescoping stock, flash suppressor, bayonet lug. The pistol grip on an M14 rifle stock is not a pistol grip under the NJ rules. They mean the AR and AK style pistol grip.

If your Colt has a muzzle brake, it may be considered a flash suppressor in New Jersey. If you have a clean muzzle and a fixed stock, you're okay.

One version of the SKS rifle is named in the ban. The SKS rifle (detachable magazine type) can not be made legal in NJ. It's on the list.

New Jersey limits magazine capacity to 15 rounds, not ten. If you have an old Marlin Model 60 with a 17 round tube magazine, it is illegal in NJ. You have to get the 10 round magazine tube insert before you can bring it into the state. Some other old .22s have the same situation, so check your guns. If you have an old Winchester semi automatic that can function with .22 Short cartridges as well as .22 Long and Long Rifle, it's illegal. Yes, they do prosecute this offense.

As long as your guns are legal in New Jersey, you do not need to do anything to register them or obtain permits to have them there. You can have them at or in your home, while hunting, target shooting, while travelling to and from a place of hunting or target shooting, and going to the gunsmith or gun store. Any cop who tells you otherwise is just plain wrong. There is a list of exceptions at the end of the firearm posession law in chapter 2C:39, I just listed them.

Hollowpoint ammunition is legal in NJ. You can buy it, take it to the range, shoot it, hunt with it, and keep it in your house. What you may not do is drive around with a box of hollowpoints in your car. If this sounds silly, it's because it is. The law was written so that politicians could say they were doing something.

AN IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT ELIGIBILITY TO OWN FIREARMS IN NEW JERSEY:
New Jersey does not classify crimes as felonies and misdemeanors. It uses four degrees of "crimes." A fourth degree crime in New Jersey is the same as a misdemeanor in other states. A person who has been convicted of a crime (even a misdemeanor) may not legally own a firearm in New Jersey. This includes air guns.

Monsey, New York is another story. You do not need any permits to buy long guns, but you need the New York State carry permit to own handguns. New York will give you the permit, but they will restrict it to activities like hunting, fishing, target shooting, etc. I'm told that Rockland County no longer allows "hiking" as a carry permit activity because anywhere you take a walk could be considered hiking, and they don't want you packing in the county.

I'm not up on the details of the New York ban, except that they grandfathered the preban stuff while New Jersey did not. Monsey, however, might not be an attractive place for you to live. It's expensive, the downtown area has lots of crime, and it's in Rockland County. They hate gun owners there. Rosie O'Donnell lives in Rockland County. Orange County, New York, is more friendly to shooters and the real estate is not as expensive. Orange County has a Gander Mountain and several other good stores. There are also some good clubs in Orange County.

 

[sig226]

Additional point: I was guessing orhtodox Jew since you specified Monsey. It still stinks. Kiryas Joel is an othodox community in Orange County.

There were still a few Kosher delis in Fair Lawn, New Jersey, too.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Since I bought all my guns legally in MD, would I be able to bring them to either NY or NJ, or do they not grandfather them in like MD?

For NY,
Long guns - yes
Pistols - Unless it's changed, NO. You have to send them to yourself via an FFL (which means de-facto registration as well as attendant fees and taxes).

 

[chaim]

Tom, thanks. It sounds like NJ isn't that much different from MD (other than the permit for each pistol purchase). With the permit, do you need to list the gun you plan to buy or is it generic- good for buying a pistol? I tend to have a few guns on my list when I go to buy, and often end up buying something else. If the permits aren't generic but gun specific, what do they cost (if anything)? If they are gun specific, and not too much money, I guess I could apply for a permit for 4 or 5 of the guns I am most likely to buy on that particular trip to the gun store, and just not use the others. If I did that, how long are the permits good for?

So, no mandatory registration but automatic registration of all new purchases? Sounds like MD handgun law. I would only need the FID to buy a long gun or to be able to get a pistol purchase permit? I wouldn't need it to possess already owned guns?

A semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine can have only ONE of the following features: pistol grip, collapsible stock, flash suppressor, threaded barrel that can accept a flash suppressor, bayonet lug, grenade launcher.

It sounds like my AR is NJ legal. It is a HBAR, it is "post-ban" bought about a year before the AWB sunset so no bayonet lug, no flash suppressor, no threaded barrel, no collapsible stock, etc. I'm not crazy about the idea of going to 15 round mags in it, but that's better than no AR. Heck, I'd probably just go with 10 rounders, probably cheaper. In case of a new future AWB I'd probably leave my 20 rounders at my parents house in MD so they can be grandfathered in.

 

[chaim]

SIG226,
Has Passaic been improving? I know a lot of Orthodox Jews have been moving there the past few years. It is really big for Orthodox singles- it almost seems that most Orthodox people from the East Coast who have been dating more than 2 or 3 years without getting married move there (another reason I'm thinking about it). Maybe it is just the real estate prices that's drawing people- it is one of the more affordable places around NYC. I could consider Teaneck but it is probably out of my price range (I am a teacher after all). If the main problem with Passaic is crime, remember I'm from Baltimore- it is awfully hard for someplace to be worse than Baltimore (maybe Philly comes close).

I've heard about the crime in Monsey/Rockland County, I didn't know it was anti-gun. With so many Orthodox Jews (most of whom are non-shooters, but right-wing and Republican) I'd at least expect it to be neutral on gun issues.

Kiryas Joel is an othodox community in Orange County.

I've thought about Kiryas Joel and New Square, but these towns are built by, and are made up of about 99%, Satmar and Sqver Chassidim respectively. While I lean in the Chassidic direction, I am also a bit Modern Orthodox. At any rate, I couldn't live in either town very easily as I am neither Satmar nor Sqver.

 

[Tom488]

With the permit, do you need to list the gun you plan to buy or is it generic- good for buying a pistol?

Generic - the seller fills in the make/model/caliber/serial number at the time of purchase.

If I did that, how long are the permits good for?

Once obtained, permits are good for 90 days, and can usually be renewed for an additional 90 days (at the discretion of the Chief of Police)

would only need the FID to buy a long gun or to be able to get a pistol purchase permit? I wouldn't need it to possess already owned guns?

Correct.

Heck, I'd probably just go with 10 rounders, probably cheaper.

Arms N Ammo sells the 15-round magazines for $20 each. They also sell the modified base plate to convert your 20-rounders to 15-rounders for $3 each.

 

[DogBonz]

Chaim

Another NJ resident checking in here. Tom pretty much covered the NJ stuff except one thing. You will need 2 people who are NJ residence to vouch for you (I kid you not). On the form for your FID it will ask for two references. Make sure that you have their current addresses (no PO Boxes). They will get a letter in the mail that they have to fill out and return. If one of them does not return the affidavit, you get denied. Mess up huh? Lucky for me when I moved back to this stink hole I had friends and family here. I am not sure if this is state wide, or just an additional hurdle for the privilege of living in Princeton.

Well good luck. I guess that you just have to choose the lesser of the two evils. I feel your pain in this regard, but for now, we do what we gotta do.

PS. For what it's worth, I was told 6-8 weeks for my FID. I got it in 6 weeks and two days.

 

[Prince Yamato]

I'm not entirely familiar with Connecticut geography, but I know that "greater NYC" encompasses a portion of CT. Again, like Sleepy Hollow, there are many places where you can take an hour train ride into NYC.

Remember that regardless of where you live, you will probably be taking some form of train into NYC. You'll either be an hour on the subway or an hour on the rail from CT, NJ, or upstate NY. My parent's friends who live in Boston have mentioned that some NYers are encroaching into the suburbs of MA and commuting 2.5+ hours into NYC.

Also remember that even if you live outside of NYC, if you work in NYC, you have to pay NYC taxes... boo...

BTW, though you would in all likelyhood NOT get CCW in NYC, you could still keep all your handguns and your SKS (possibly sans grenade launcher). You would just need to spend a couple hundred to register all your guns in NYC. NYC has it's own assault weapons ban, which, aside from banning pistol grip rifles, is essentially a mirror of the NYS ban, which is in turn a mirror of the old federal ban... whew... Chiam, just find an Orthodox Jewish community in Texas, would ya?

 

[Tom488]

You will need 2 people who are NJ residence to vouch for you

Yeah, I guess I glossed over that part. Having lived here all my life, I have plenty of people who can, and do, vouch for me. I forget that sometimes it's hard for people who have just moved here.

Yes, it is a state-wide requirement. It's spelled out in the statues (2C:58-3e)

 

[chaim]

You will need 2 people who are NJ residence to vouch for you (I kid you not). On the form for your FID it will ask for two references.

I do know a few people who have relocated to Passaic. Heck, I have enough guns for now that I don't really need to buy anything and I can keep my wants in check long enough to get to know a few people to vouch for me. Still, it would be better not to have to (here is one area where MD is better than NJ). BTW- is that FID permanent or do you need to periodically renew it?

Also remember that even if you live outside of NYC, if you work in NYC, you have to pay NYC taxes

I will do everything I can to avoid working in NYC. I am a teacher and all localities will have their own school systems. I am a special education teacher so finding a job shouldn't be too difficult. If all goes well I will not be working in NYC.

Chiam, just find an Orthodox Jewish community in Texas, would ya?

Well, after I have a couple years of learning in a yeshiva under my belt, my masters degree (and maybe a doctorate) and I'm married- IOW once I have finished everything I have to do and I'm ready to get on with my life- I'd very much like to settle in Pittsburgh, Phily, Cleveland, Norfolk, Richmond, or Minneapolis (cities with good gun laws, easy CCW permits, and small to medium Orthodox communities). In about 5 years I should be finished everything (and more than ready).

 

[sig226]

If you're okay with Baltimore, Passaic shouldn't be a problem. Passaic has one massive advantage over Lakewood and Monsey. If you have to go into New York City every day, the train goes through Passaic. You can walk to it. It does not go through Monsey. You have to drive to the station. This sounds simple enough, but there is nowhere to park a car because all the other commuters want to park there, too.

There are buses to NYC from the area, but the train is the way to go. The bus has to sit in traffic, which is similar to the I-95 loop around D.C., but worse. The train is faster and the riders tend to be more yuppie. There are less unpleasant interactions on the train. The train stops in Hoboken, where you take the PATH train across the Hudson River. The Path goes to up to
33rd Street in Manhattan, and also has access to the subways if you have to go to Brooklyn.

Passaic is more of a city than Monsey. Residential Monsey is a suburb. You can walk to the business district of Passaic to get what you want. It is also close to Teaneck, as you noted. Englewood, Fort Lee, and Fair Lawn are also close to Passaic. All of these have significant Jewish populations and shuls (sp?). Englewood has the advantage that if you find a nice girl there, chances are her daddy is loaded. Wayne, New Jersey is also close. It has a large Jewish community, but I think they are mostly reform and modern. Still, the town has a YMHA. It seems to me that Passaic would be your best choice since there is a singles scene for you, it has a larger community of like minded folk, and it offers the best commute into New York City. Lakewood is a long and painful ride into New York. Your need to go to school in the city rules it out.

I wouldn't bring up gun ownership in the orthodox community in the New York City area until you get to know people well. They might have voted for Reagan, but the anti gun sentiment is rampant everywhere around New York City.

The only active range I know of in the area is The Firing Line, in Pearl River, New York. There were no public ranges in that part of New Jersey when I left in 2005. There are several good gun stores around Passaic. Luciano's in Lodi, Meltzer's in Garfield, Ramsey Outdoor in Paramus, and Ramsey Outdoor in Ramsey all sell guns.

You'll have to join a club to shoot rifles in the area. The New Jersey NRA affiliate runs the Cherry Ridge Range. It's an hour drive from Passaic. It might be longer. There is a good club in the Lakewood area. I can't recall the name, but the need to be able to commute into the city really overrides the benefit of being close to the club. You learn to drive a long way when you want to shoot in New Jersey and New York.

 

[sig226]

New Jersey Firearms Purchaser Identification Card does not have to be renewed, but it is not considered valid unless it has your current address on it. Pistol purchase permits are good for 90 days and can be renewed one time for an additional 90 days. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are not pro gun places, even though they are in Pennsylvania. Those two cities are trying to get a one gun a month law passed, among other things.

 

[Tom488]

Those two cities are trying to get a one gun a month law passed, among other things.

So is NJ.... screwed no matter what.

You learn to drive a long way when you want to shoot in New Jersey

Yep - I learn to drive to Pennsylvania (which, fortunately, is only a 30 minute drive)

 

[DogBonz]

Well...

BTW- is that FID permanent or do you need to periodically renew it?

It is permanent... Until you move. Then you need to get it renewed with your new address.

There are several good gun stores around Passaic. Luciano's in Lodi, Meltzer's in Garfield, Ramsey Outdoor in Paramus, and Ramsey Outdoor in Ramsey all sell guns.

Yes. My friend in Northern NJ likes Meltzer's and Ramsey outdoor. From what I hear they are very good for NJ.

 

[S4Lee]

"It sounds like my AR is NJ legal. It is a HBAR, it is "post-ban" bought about a year before the AWB sunset so no bayonet lug, no flash suppressor, no threaded barrel, no collapsible stock, etc."

Not sure, but there is this part of the list in 2C:39-1w:
(2) Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed above.

I'm kinda new to this myself, but looking up the Colt HR, to me it looks like it fits the category of being 'identical' to the AR-15. However, I was actually in Meltzers the other day for the first time and they had AR-style rifles on display, and I picked up a catalog for Bushmaster. I didn't ask if they were LE-only. (If I'm wrong, can someone clarify why - thanks.)

BTW, The Bullet Hole is a public indoor pistol range in Belleville, a few miles down the road (Rt. 21) from Passaic.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Tom488's comments on NJ law are concise, correct, and have saved me much typing.

For people asking about the "substantially identical" language, the language was struck down for vagueness.

To the extent it can be defined in NJ, "substantially identical" means equivalent in form and function...and a post ban format AR is NOT equivalent in function to a pre-ban format AR because, for example, you cannot mount a bayonet to it AND have a pistol grip AND feed it with a magazine.

You can do any TWO of those functions in a post-ban, whereas you could do all THREE (or more!) in a pre-ban.


The full extent of NJ's AWB is the 19 or so named armaments, autoloaders having more than 2 "evil" features, and a couple of misc guns like streetsweepers.