Questions for NY and NJ based members

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SIG, I hope to get a job outside the city- I'm a special education teacher so getting a job in one of the 'burbs shouldn't be too hard so pay is the only thing I can think of that would put me in NYC for work. For commuting, the most likely yeshiva (which would only be during the summer so a long commute for a limited time, 2 months, wouldn't be too bad) is in Monsey. If I worked locally and went to this yeshiva, living in Monsey would mean no real commute for work or during the summer for yeshiva (but Monsey isn't cheap and it would probably require a commute for grad school). As for grad school, there are several potential schools in NYC, but there are also several in NJ and a couple in CT. If I live in NJ I can probably arrange not needing to commute for work or for grad school, but yeshiva in the summer would require a commute. That seems the best option since it would mean commuting only part of the year (though if several schools have satellite commuter campuses in Monsey that may be ideal- I know a lot of schools in the DC area do this). I'd prefer not having to drive into the city at all (though I've driven in Manhattan on a Sunday and it wasn't bad at all), and during the week I don't want to go into NYC if I can help it. Living, working and going to grad school in NJ may be best, during the summer I could go around the city to get to Monsey for yeshiva.

SIG and Tom, I know Pittsburgh and Phily aren't particularly pro-gun cities, but they are in a pro-gun state. I didn't know they were lobbying for a one a month law, and I didn't know that NJ was trying to pass it (I assumed NJ would have it)- MD already has it so moving someplace that added it would just be one more bad law I didn't get away from.

S4, my AR is by Bushmaster.

Oh, I guess I should ask a few more questions:

-One a month law? MD has one. I guess if NJ is trying to get one, they don't currently have one (though that purchase permit system sounds like it can be even more limiting). How about NY?

-Shell casing law? MD requires all new guns to have a fired shell casing that was fired from the manufacturer. I know NY also has it. This can be very limiting when buying online. Does NJ have a similar law?

-Built-in lock law? MD has it. It can severely limit what guns are available (though it isn't as bad now as it used to be). Does NY or NJ have one?
 
The one gun a month law failed in New Jersey this time, but they will probably try again. If you want twenty purchase permits at the same time, they have to give them to you.

You can get a spent casing for a used handgun by having the dealer fire it for the New York State Police. The FFL will arrange this. I'm not sure what they charge. It doesn't add too much time to the process in New York. Even after you get your handgun permit there, a judge has to amend the permit with the model, serial number, and caliber of each handgun you own. This takes a week or so, so they have time to collect the spent casing. New Jersey does not have this requirement. You have to have a lock with each handgun transferred by an FFL in New Jersey. You can buy one for a used gun, or you can bring your own and show it to the dealer to satisfy the requirement. The lock can be separate from the gun. This does not apply to long arms.

Your best bet for a job as a special ed teacher in the area is probably the public school systems in Bergen County. These have the most money, get the most grants, and the programs are well maintained. The school systems are totally decentralized there. Bergen County has seventy townships and I have no idea how many school districts. Often, towns operate one system for the elementary school children and another for the high school kids. Districts may involve several towns, or only one town. If you live in one state and work in another, you will pay two state income taxes. There are credits for taxes paid to other jurisdictions, but it will still be an extra percentage of your paycheck.

Driving on Sunday in Manhattan is not comparable to the rest of the week. It's not as bad in the summer, but it still has bad traffic. There are also tolls and parking costs, so the train is still the best bet. Your car will be damaged and broken into in New York City. There's no way to avoid it. If you lived in New Jersey and had to study in Monsey, you wouldn't have to go anywhere near New York City to get there, so the traffic wouldn't be as bad.

I assumed that you would commute for education, not work. New York City is going to offer the best education opportunities, as well as networking. Since you're going to be there, you might as well take advantage of it.

If you do go there, good luck. The area has many attractions and great beauty, gun grabbing nit wits aside. I hope that you can teach some of the orthodox Jewish community around New York that their right - their obligation - to defend themselves is not to be trifled with. They seem to have forgotten what "Never Again" means. JPFO used to use a Rabbi in Brooklyn to answer the Ask the Rabbi questions. He seemed like an interesting man. It might be a fun afternoon to go meet him one day.
 
The one gun a month law failed in New Jersey this time, but they will probably try again
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I don't think it failed... I just don't think it came up in the Senate last go-around. It did pass the Assembly. I don't know if the Assembly has to re-pass it this coming session, or if it can just go right to the Senate. Either way, I'm sure it will be no trouble for the good Assemblymen and women of this state to vote it through again.

You have to have a lock with each handgun transferred by an FFL in New Jersey.
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Yep - I have a bunch of them. I like when I buy Rugers - they come with nice, sturdy MasterLock-like padlocks. Most others use those cheapy cable-lock types. Either way, I find them quite handy in locking my rifle cases when transporting to the range... keeps them out of the 'Terry Stop' exceptions to the 4th amendment in the unlikely event of a traffic stop. Just because I know the law, doesn't mean the officer/trooper pulling me over does, and I'd rather not be discussing the finer points of 2C:39 from the back seat of a Crown Vic.
 
Al the tech stuff is being answered, but I would avoid Lakewood NJ. It is a few miles south of me , and there is a lot of violence there. It eems to be developing into the new area gang ground. Especially f you have kids and need to send them to school. The nicer sections are drying up fast.
 
You can get a spent casing for a used handgun by having the dealer fire it for the New York State Police. The FFL will arrange this. I'm not sure what they charge.
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I have never, ever, heard of this having to be done. Must be a downstate thing.

And as far as gun laws go, NY > NJ by FAR. Even the Brady's prefer NJ to NY, if you look at the grades they give to gun control by state.
 
Would my fixed mag (tubular mag) Marlin 60 be a problem since it holds 14 rounds?
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Yes in NJ - it is considered an Assault Weapon under NJ law by the state because some models can hold over 15 rounds. Although not specifically mentioned, posession could cause you a lot of problems.

A good source for info on NJ gun laws is a book by attorney Evan P. Nappen - you can find it at www.evannappen.com
 
Pistol purchase permits are good for 90 days and can be renewed one time for an additional 90 days.
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Actually, this depends on the issuing authority. My township will not renew an expired pistol purchase permit. But as they are only $2 per permit, (not to mention that I have never not been able to find a pistol I wanted within the time frame) it's not really much of an issue.

Also, some towns do restrict the number of permits you can apply for each time.
 
In a continuing legal eduation seminar I attended a few years ago, Evan Nappen referred to NJ's firearms and knife laws as, "a full employment act for Evan Nappen."

FWIW, NJ also has among the highest auto insurance rates in the country, maybe the highest. Factor that into your decision.
 
You don't need a permit to own a gun in NYS, only to own a handgun. There is not registration or permitting for long guns. There IS a mirror of the federal AWB from 94 written into state law, only the state one doesn't expire. Anything that you could own in 1994-2004 you can own now in NYS, that includes pre-ban mags over 10 rounds. If your long arms are AWB-compliant, then just bring them into the state when you move.
As for your handguns, there is one way to legally get a handgun into NYS, and that is by one FFL mailing it to another FFL.
Keep your handguns out of state until you get your NYS handgun permit. Then, have them mailed from an out-of-state FFL to an FFL of your choice in NYS, pick them up and then you're done and all legal.
My brother in law did this when he moved from Virginia, he dropped his pistol off at a Virginia FFL with instructions to mail it to my FFL in NY. I picked up the pistol from my FFL, registered it on my permit. I was gonna hold it for him until he got his permit, but he owed me some money so he told me to just keep it. :)
 
NY "shell casing law" only applies to new guns coming from the manufacturer to FFLs in the state. It does not apply to used guns coming into the state from private party transfers. Also, the FFL takes care of that, so you don't need to worry about it.

Also, we do not have a gun rationing program here (one gun per month).

We also don't have a lock law.
 
chaim, Have you considered South Florida? It's like Jew central down there! Hard to spot orthodox walking around, but by the # of hasidim there I would guess there's a significant orthodox community as well.

I'm from N.J. and moved out of the state specifically and wholly because of the gun laws and culture. It's much worse than Maryland. I went to school in MD and bought my first guns there. MD is annoying but nothing like N.J. - I'd go to Israel. In addition to great gun laws, you'll have an experience to treasure for the rest of your life.

Good luck
 
If you want to come to Passaic, NJ go ahead.
It sounds like the gun laws aren't that different, you'd only loose your 20 round mags.
I work in the area of Passaic and live close too. The Passaic Park area which is the Jewish neighborhood is not bad although there are many bad parts of Passaic. You can shoot all of your guns at the bullet hole 10 min. from Passaic (with traffic) but if you want to shoot more than 25 yds you have to drive far. For the best gun laws you might consider the Monroe NY area which I believe is Orange county NY and they have a big Jewish community there.
It would probably be easier to get a job in NJ.
 
chaim,
If you're already thinking about settling in PA, I'll throw this out. I had a job offer in NYC and tried to work out the logistics of staying in gun friendly PA while working in NY. I came up with Levittown PA. Now I couldn't make the job work with my SO's career, but I did the logistics.

Levittown/Langehorn/Yardley PA are right across the Delaware River from Trenton. Drive across, and Amtrak or NJ Transit will get you from Trenton to Penn Station in New York in about an hour. You'd be in Bucks County, which is way better than Philly in terms of gun culture, shall issue, and not a whole lot of restrictions. You'd be near I95 and within an hour of half the population on the east coast. The transportation cost and cost of living would be high (but you'd have to look at the differential with Jersey), and you'd spend at least 3 hours in transit a day (the train plus the drive back across). But it's doable and you wouldn't have to give up your weapons. Just a thought.
 
I have never, ever, heard of this having to be done. Must be a downstate thing.

And as far as gun laws go, NY > NJ by FAR. Even the Brady's prefer NJ to NY, if you look at the grades they give to gun control by state.
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Master Class Shooter's Supply in Monroe will do it. I think The Firing Line in Pearl River will also do it. Both of these are near the area he plans to go.
 
Actually, this depends on the issuing authority. My township will not renew an expired pistol purchase permit. But as they are only $2 per permit, (not to mention that I have never not been able to find a pistol I wanted within the time frame) it's not really much of an issue.

Also, some towns do restrict the number of permits you can apply for each time.
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Your town is violating 2C:58. Any town that restricts the number of permits that they will issue is also breaking the law. Sounds like Hackensack.

Of course, there is no penalty for this action, and there might be one judge in the state who will tell them they're not allowed to do it.
 
Yep - I have a bunch of them. I like when I buy Rugers - they come with nice, sturdy MasterLock-like padlocks. Most others use those cheapy cable-lock types. Either way, I find them quite handy in locking my rifle cases when transporting to the range... keeps them out of the 'Terry Stop' exceptions to the 4th amendment in the unlikely event of a traffic stop. Just because I know the law, doesn't mean the officer/trooper pulling me over does, and I'd rather not be discussing the finer points of 2C:39 from the back seat of a Crown Vic.
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Here's a fun New Jersey story:

I had a guy come in around 2,000 asking about New Jersey's gun laws and posession of a shotgun. He was a New Jersey resident and owned a cabin in upstate New York. Years before, he took up deer hunting and bought a shotgun from a dealer in New York. He never brought the shotgun into New Jersey and never obtained a New Jersey Firearms Purchaser Identification Card.

He passed through a DWI stop in Mahwah, New Jersey, and one of the officers noticed the deer leg sticking out of his trunk.

"Do you have the gun you used to shoot that deer?"
"Yes."
"Do you have a firearms id card?"
"No."
"You are under arrest."

His lawyer was about to plead him guilty to a 2C:39 violation which would have destroyed his life, but he came into our store and asked if the lawyer had it right. Fortunately, Nappen was answering his phone that day and we got the guy a meeting. So here were a police department, a prosecutor, a judge, and a defense attorney all about to convict a guy for a crime he did not commit.

That kind of crap happens all too often in New Jersey.
 
So, if I do NY the shell casing law has the "loophole" that if the gun doesn't come with the shell casing the dealer can have someone shoot it for the casing. Very nice. MD used to have that "loophole" but they closed it, now only guns with casings from the manufacturer can be sold here severely limiting us from certain brands. The lock law being a gun lock and not a built-in lock will also be a welcome relief (another limit on the types of guns we can buy here).

If you have an Pistols and plan on Rockland

http://www.rocklandcountyclerk.com/p...license.html#1
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Ouch:

$10 processing fee
$25 fingerprinting fee
$99 New York State Department of Criminal Justice Services fee

You have to go FFL to FFL to transfer your own guns you already know into the state (not just guns you are buying now) :what: ?! Around here the cheapest transfer fee that I know of at an FFL that would be at all convenient to use is $35 and $50-100 is more normal (most are $75). I assume the cost will be similar (possibly a little higher) up there. Best case is around $70 total in FFL fees, as much as $150-200 isn't out of the question.

So lets see: $10+99+25+70 is a best case scenario of $204 (worst case of $280-300) per gun...I'm getting indigestion just thinking about it. I'd definitely be selling a bunch of handguns before I'd make that move (heck, I'd have to sell a few just to finance the transfer fees).

NJ is looking better all the time.
 
Here's a fun New Jersey story...
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So I guess the moral of the story is that even though I wouldn't need the FID to possess the guns I bought when living in another state, it would still probably be smart to wait until I got the FID to take them out of the house...Not the greatest situation, but about what I'd expect for NJ.
 
Oh, almost forgot:

-What are the gun storage laws (if any)?

-Are there any good private ranges near Monsey or Passaic that don't require that you come to a Saturday meeting to join? Saturday is the Sabbath for Jews so I couldn't go to a Sat meeting, I'd need a club where members are allowed to join during weeknight meetings.

-Some have already mentioned some good N. NJ gun dealers, how about in the Monsey area? Indoor pistol ranges?
 
Chaim,

So lets see: $10+99+25+70 is a best case scenario of $204 (worst case of $280-300) per gun...I'm getting indigestion just thinking about it. I'd definitely be selling a bunch of handguns before I'd make that move (heck, I'd have to sell a few just to finance the transfer fees).
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The $10 processing fee; $25 fingerprinting fee; and $99 DCJS fee are all one time fees. Once you have your license the State takes a $3.00 fee to add any pistol to your license.

Hope your stomach didn't get too upset.

When is comes to gun ownership in New York State, things are actually pretty good, once you get out of NYC and its suburbs.

New York State does not have any storage requirements. Safe storage is recommended, but not mandated by law. However, keep in mind that liability lawsuits are alive and well.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire
 
NJ Gun storage laws:

-Dealers must provide locks with guns
-Can't store a loaded gun such that anyone under 16 has access to it.
-Strict liability for actions of people under 16; defense is that they stole it, breaking through some security to get it.
 
Prof. A. Wickwire, thank you that was helpful. My stomach is much better :D. BTW-as a cat person, I must say I love your sig line:
Cats are fun and magical when you can't smell their poop! Fresh Step!
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NJ Gun storage laws:

-Dealers must provide locks with guns
-Can't store a loaded gun such that anyone under 16 has access to it.
-Strict liability for actions of people under 16; defense is that they stole it, breaking through some security to get it.
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Well, since I don't have any kids I wonder if a locked front door (knob and deadbolt) would count as security since the purpose of locking your door is to keep people out of your stuff. A locked closet? Or would I need to keep the trigger lock on the gun or use a gun safe? Right now I just put a lockable exterior door knob on my closet and it gives some degree of security (at least it keeps them out of the hands and eyesight of petty criminals and the curious).
 
Chaim,
I southern NJ resident here, Cherry Hill to be exact. We have a thriving Orthodox community here. I am familiar with the Lakewood area also and do business with some Orthodox home builders in that area.

I recomend Lakewood because you are closer to the gun friendly Pine Barrens area, Ft. Dix and some really good ranges in the central Jersey area.

You can join the range at Ft. Dix as a civilian and shoot everything there. There are some good ranges in the jackson area, some Wildlife Mang. Area with ranges in the Colliers Mill area. That section of Jersey has always maintained a strong pro 2a stance... to bad they are totally outnumbered population wise with the north and philly area suburbs.

Everyones previous responses above were right on the money. I moved here from Ga about 18 months ago. I am happy, but I could be gun happier. There is a small and dedicated groupd of gun owners in the states and t really gives you a sense of working for a cause if you get involved.

Come on up here... I will take you out to my club which has trap, indoor and outdoor pistol, rifle range and archery. Only 10 minutes from my house.
 
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