Rebuffed scammers call the law on victims

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steelerdude99

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Does anyone have advice on what to do a law enforcement show up at your home saying they received a 911 call about "a man with a gun"? Police may want to enter and "look around".

This article is from a town not far from me. I have been known to hard on potential SCAM'ers. Now they seem to be SWATing those who do not cooperate (or maybe just those who make them have a bad day). I doubt that they can make a habit of SWATing all of those who don't play, but keep the non-emergency local law enforcement number report SCAMS.

http://www.fredericksburg.com/news/...cle_88114908-897d-5ee1-8b11-36482215b0af.html

chuck
 
http://culpepersheriffsoffice.com/
Culpeper County Virginia Sheriff's Office
Culpeper County Sheriff’s Office continues to receive reports of IRS scam operations, and Sheriff Scott Jenkins is warning residents that there is a new element to the scam: “swatting.”

The crime of “swatting” is making a hoax call to 9-1-1 to draw a response from law enforcement, usually a SWAT team, and CCSO had an incident of it this weekend, when deputies responded to an unfounded report of a person with a gun in the 14600 block of Carrico Mills Road at about 6 p.m. Friday, May 15, 2015. When deputies arrived, they found that the resident did not call 911, but they had received an IRS scam call in which the caller told them that they owed thousands of dollars to be brought immediately to a Washington, DC address or they would be arrested. When the victim told the caller they would borrow the money from their Police Officer friend, the call disconnected, and the caller sought revenge by reporting a person with a gun at the victim’s residence.

Residents are encouraged to report IRS scam calls to Culpeper dispatch (540.727.7900) so that dispatchers can give the additional information to responding deputies if they receive a subsequent “swatting” call.
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I have found that "Swatting" via false man-with-gun 911 reports is a reckless and endangering revenge tactic used by street guerrilla types. It is a dirty tactic that can be used against anyone, gun owner or not.

Tennessee Handgun Permit classes teach how to defuse an interaction with police over man-with-a-gun response. But, most people are totally unprepared for what to do if the SWAT shows up on their doorstep. Swatters are counting on that in their revenge "pranks".
 
Sir,
how does Tennessee recommend one defuses a "Swatting" directed at you?
C-
 
I too would be interested in the Tennessee method if you don't mind elaborating a bit further, steelerdude99.
 
We don't open the door for anybody. If it's a law enforcement office of any kind wanting entry, we explain that he or she can just please wait while we call the sheriff's office for help and confirmation. If they attempt forced entry with us making no attempt to run away, that would bring on very serious "talk".
 
If they attempt forced entry with us making no attempt to run away, that would bring on very serious "talk".
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??? I think you need to clarify that one a bit more.
 
Sounds self explanatory to me. If cops force their way into your house without a warrant then what else are they willing/planning on doing? Wearing a badge doesn't give you the right to do as you please.
 
ironworkerwill said:
That is a disgusting tactic by the shysters. I would like to see justice for making a false 911 call.

"Man with a gun" probably wouldn't fly around my parts. Everyone has a gun.
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Here either, in fact a neighbor a couple miles down has three(3) WWII era tanks and a halftrack.

It was only a matter of time before someone of criminal intent used the LEO habit of overreaction to their advantage though.
 
No warrant = no entry
We can talk on the front porch.

But my understanding of swatting is that it started in the online gaming community, basically getting retaliation after they got mad because of something in the game. And from what I understood they act like they are in the house, so I'm not sure a warrant would be in order. Can't they just bust in if you (or someone that clams to be a resident) call and tell them your in danger?

They'll end up making this a serious felony, if they haven't already.
 
DeepSouth said:
No warrant = no entry
We can talk on the front porch.

But my understanding of swatting is that it started in the online gaming community, basically getting retaliation after they got mad because of something in the game. And from what I understood they act like they are in the house, so I'm not sure a warrant would be in order. Can't they just bust in if you (or someone that clams to be a resident) call and tell them your in danger?

They'll end up making this a serious felony, if they haven't already.
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911 should be able to see exactly where the call is coming from -- directory of phone numbers (including unlisted) for landlines, GPS for cellphones, so if the scammer says they are in the house 911 should come after them instead.
 
"...a scammer pretending to be an IRS agent..." Is impersonating a Federal Agent not a crime? Making false statements to police is too. At least it is here.
"...911 should be able to see..." Not everywhere.
 
SIMPLE SOLUTION: DON'T ANSWER YOUR PHONE IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE CALLER. The IRS doesn't call taxpayers except to return a taxpayer's call or in connection with a matter already being discussed, and they have prominent warnings on their website about fake phone calls and fake emails. If you hear someone leaving a voicemail who claims to be the IRS (or anyone else who you don't usually talk to but would pick up for if the call were legitimate), first wait to see what they say on the message -- you can pick up in the middle or call back.

I guess the possible downside to this advice is that it might be a bad guy calling to check if anyone's home, although out here they usually do that by ringing the doorbell and then doing something innocuous like asking for directions if you answer. If you install metal security doors the second scenario is neutralized because you can open the wood door and talk through the security door.
 
IMHO, there should be some technological way to better decipher where calls come from and who makes them. I understand law enforcement NOT wanting to "blow off" any caller is distress. However, with SWAT'ing incidents occurring more and more, there should be a way to better scrutinize the legitimacy of 911 calls.

To me, the bottom line is avoidance of a "stand off" is of prime importance; regardless if I think I'm right. It's too easy to end up dead.

1) The author of the original article has a good idea of calling the non-emergency number after a attempted SCAM. I would add if the scammer knows knows too much personal info: where you work, spouses name, SSN ... his or her "foot is figuratively in the door". Being a permit holder, it makes it more important to make sure it does not end law enforcement response by me initiating contact first.

2) Call screening based on caller-id.

3) any others?

chuck

PS: The "phone company" is no longer one entity as it was 35 or so years ago before AT&T's breakup. As such there needs to be a better way to prevent one from the proverbial "crying wolf".
 
SIMPLE SOLUTION: DON'T ANSWER YOUR PHONE IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE CALLER.
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You have a point but:
Spoofing the number they are calling from is a standard practice for scammers.
Software can make the caller ID show the call is coming from anywhere they choose.
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They can call you from your own number if they wanted to, or at least that's what the caller ID will show. I actually got called from a telescammer that called me from a number that was 1 digit off from my work number.
 
ironworkerwill said:
You have a point but:

They can call you from your own number if they wanted to, or at least that's what the caller ID will show. I actually got called from a telescammer that called me from a number that was 1 digit off from my work number.
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There is the Caller ID, which is what consumers get, and also the ANI (automatic number identification), which is what businesses with call centers get (for an extra charge). You are correct that Caller ID can be spoofed, and unfortunately so can the ANI, major telcos offer ANI spoofing (or used to) as a service to business customers. If law enforcement doesn't already have the ability to detect the actual originating number they certainly should, that would be one law I would be in favor of.

That said, if you pick up based on the number shown by Caller ID and it's not who you were expecting, you can always say "Sorry, you have the wrong number." and hang up. This discussion has just raised my consciousness, from now on I will stop answering calls from recognized numbers with "Hi, _____".
 
Retired cop here

I "once upon a time" would have allowed an LEO to search my vehicle or home WITHOUT a warrant.

I no longer would do that just to be safe and secure on my own personage.

NO WARRANT,NO ENTRY.

Force an entry and it will be recorded [ passive ] and then the fireworks can start.

I am not a lawsuit kind of peron,BUT there is a little thing called the Constitution that I am a FIRM believer in.
 
Answering the phone call from an unrecognized number was the guys first mistake. The scammer making a “SWATing” call is surprising since most, if not all, of these are from computer generated calling machines and the scammer would be unlikely to know an address to go with the number. Unless it’s a manual call and the number was obtained from a phone book (or??) that disclosed the address. It just seems strange to me.

I never answer my home phone. I have all the ringers turned off so I don’t even know there’s an incoming call until I hear someone leaving a message on the answering machine, then I can pick up the phone if it’s a legitimate caller. Almost all scammers and telescum hang up at an answering machine. Works like a charm.
 
Regarding unwanted phone calls; i.e., "robocalls," there is a service at nomorobo.com that can help with home phones but not usually with cell phones. The service is free. When calls come in from telemarketers, the service recognizes the number and shuts it down after 1 or 2 rings. The service isn't perfect but it has cut WAY down on the number of robocalls my wife and I were receiving.
 
Just because they don't have a warrant does not mean police will not force their way into a house.. This is a very dangerous situation as the police are under the impression a man has a gun in the house. The police arrive expecting trouble and you won't let them in. What was that noise? Who else is in there? The police might indeed come inside without a warrant. In fact, I would presume they would come in as the 911 call is already in the minds of many probable cause. Whether or not it actually is probable cause is, at the moment, irrelevant.

The interaction between the innocent homeowner and the police at this time cannot be safely predicted. Everything might end okay. It might end with a dead homeowner. It really depends on the officers who show up to the call.

As 99 luftballons observed, you could get a "this is what we waited for, this is it, boys, this is war!" buckaroo Captain Ramius feared in Hunt for Red October. Instead you might get Andy Taylor. In any case, how it ends for the homeowner depends solely on the nature of the officers who arrive. If they show up in an MRAP, well...

Refusing entry without a warrant is a right for the homeowner. Will it be honored by the officers or will, in the heat of the moment, they determine they can take the person at the door down and rush the house to secure it?
 
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