Reliability:

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by gunsablazin, Oct 31, 2014.

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  1. gunsablazin

    gunsablazin Member

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    There is a thread in the handgun section debating the ultimate reliability of semi-auto pistols vs. revolvers, and while they both have their merits, no machine is infallible. Taking that into consideration, how many of us have firearms that have never malfunctioned? I have several, my .223 AR has yet to bobble in well over 1,000rds, I own several revolvers that have never failed in any way during the firing of thousands of rounds, the Glock 35 I used in IDPA for a while never a hiccup. I do own and use guns that have malfunctioned, the majority of these can be attributed to worn out mags, a faulty reload, or in the case of one of my most reliable autos, a Springfield 1911, the extractor finally wore out, and it started having failures to eject, a new part solved that issue. I do not keep guns I do not trust, and there is not a centerfire gun in my small collection that I would not use to defend myself with in full confidence that it would do its part. (with the exception of a Baby Browning .25, it works, but I do not have much faith in the .25 cartridge)
     
  2. Teachu2

    Teachu2 Member

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    I've had far more ammo-related issues lately than anything else. QC has slipped at most manufacturers, especially on the low-end stuff.
    It is exceedingly rare that I encounter a truly defective gun. Some may need more maintenance than others as far as cleaning and lubing, but if properly maintained and fed quality ammo they all go bang.
    Now if someone has been tinkering with them, all bets are off!
     
  3. jrdolall

    jrdolall Member

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    Considering SD guns I have had about a million times more issues with semis than with revolvers. Mainly because I have never had a failure with any of my revolvers and I have had a few with several semis. I know revolvers can and do fail but I have never had that experience with my HD/SD calibers. I HAVE seen it in older 22 revolvers as well as a couple of 100 year old revolvers but nothing with the modern guns.
     
  4. Robert

    Robert Administrator Staff Member

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    I have never had a firearm just fail to function that was not an ammo issue. The firing pin on my FAL was broken for who knows how long before I discovered it and it still ran like a top. The only time I have ever had a gun just stop was when a primer fall into the trigger assembly on my AR15. I have no idea how that happened...
     
  5. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

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    None of my .22 rifles have, but those have been lever- and bolt-action, and my only autoloader was a Marlin 60.
    In 9mm, my S&W (now sold) never failed to function, and my current carry gun, a CZ PCR, has stopped only because of my reloads, which had a 'blunt' cast bullet setting the ogive too far forward so it jammed into the rifling.
    So I call those a win.
     
  6. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    Thats pretty much where I stand. You shoot em enough and there will be a malfunction, of some sort. It doesnt matter if its ammo related or not, I still count it as a malfunction.
     
  7. LockedBreech

    LockedBreech Member

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    I'll run through my collection:

    Beretta PX4 Storm- Owned 6 years, fired about 6,000-6,500 rounds. Flawless.

    Beretta 92FS - Owned about a year, fired about 400 rounds. Flawless.

    Beretta Cougar 8040 - Owned 1 month, fired about 200 rounds. Flawless

    Ruger LCP - Owned about 4 years, fired about 1,000-1,500 rounds. 2 failures to load. One ammo-related, one inexplicable.

    Sig Sauer SP2022 - Owned about 2 weeks. Unfired. Inapplicable.

    Sig Sauer P6 - Owned 1 month. Unfired. Inapplicable.

    Rock Island Armory GI 1911 - Owned 1 year. 200 rounds incl. 24 rounds Speer Gold Dot JHP. Flawless.

    1968 Colt Detective Special - Owned about 2 years. 200-300 rounds. Flawless.

    Colt Python .357 - Owned about 6 months. 50 rounds. Flawless.

    Daniel Defense M4V1 - Owned about 3.5 years. 4-5 double-feeds while learning how to maintain the AR platform (I basically had it bone dry). Zero failures since in about 750 rounds. Overall reliability 745/750. In my mind it's actually 750/750 since a tool I wasn't taking care of properly can't be expected to work.

    Ruger 10/22 All-Weather Carbine - Owned about 6 years. 2,000-2,500. Flawless.

    Remington 870 Express Tactical - Owned about 5 years. Around 500 shells. Flawless.

    Mosin-Nagant 91/30 - Owned about 1.5 years. 200 rounds. Flawless.
     
  8. ohbythebay

    ohbythebay Member

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    Failure stats

    It is definitely very gun specific in some case...and often, you get what you pay for

    CZ 75 SP01 Tactical - 1500+ rounds - zero failures

    Glock 19 Gen 4 - 2000+ rounds - 6 ftf - all a week ago due to light primer strike which as been corrected

    S&W M&P 15 (AR-15) - 2000+ rounds - zero failures

    Bersa Thunder 380 - 1200 rounds - at least 40 stovepipes

    CZ RAMI (new to me now) - 150 rounds - zero failures

    Marlin 60 .22 - several hundred rounds, 2 failures both ammo related
     
  9. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    In my limited years of buying and selling firearms I have had flawless firearms and very flawed ones. Sometimes the flaw is ammo related: didn't like that bullet type or weight or just a hard/dud primer. Sometimes, though rarely, it was the guns fault. I had a Kel-Tec malfunction so bad I didn't feel right carrying it even after two trips back to Kel-Tec, so it was sold.
     
  10. Twiki357

    Twiki357 Member

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    I’ve had malfunctions in all but one of my semi-autos (Kel-Tec, Llama, Taurus, Browning & Ruger), but they have all been ammo related, not the gun. My Kimber eats anything and everything.

    Out of my 28 revolvers, the only gun related malfunctions I’ve had was an ejector rod that came unscrewed on a Model 19, but I don’t fault S&W since the gun was refinished by a previous owner. Then there’s a Beretta Stampede that’s a pos from the start.
     
  11. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    Only my Remington 1100 and Ruger Red Label had issues not ammo related as I do not consider a bad reload the gun's fault.
    I have a Browning O/U with 300,000, so I chuckle when I see some folks talking about 500 or 1,000 rounds without issue.
     
  12. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    i think people are psychologically blinded by the malfunctions they experience. multiple times, I've gone on range trips with people, personally witnessed their firearms malfunction and them fix it and keep shooting, and later have that person tell me in all honesty that that particular firearm has been 100% reliable and never malfunctioned.

    i don't think they were lying, i just think the chemicals in their brains are conspiring against them to suppress memories.

    i have no other explanation for why i see dozens of malfunctions every time i go to the range, but everyone says THEIR gun never malfs

    heck on my last trip to an indoor range I watched some wingnut come in and shoot a WW2 era pistol. he didn't make it into the second magazine before some bar on the inside snapped in half and his entire slide shot downrange. hard to deny that one haha


    net, i'd guess i go to shoot around 200 days per year for probably the past 10 years. I think i went to the range about 70 out of 90 days this past winter. my experience with my own guns (including many of the ones listed above) and watching countless others is so wildly different than the posts above, i just don't believe any of you.
     
  13. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    It's a heartache when a firearm with a pedigree of legendary reliability lets you down. When my SA 1911A1 first needed parts replaced years ago I felt betrayed. When my M-1 needed to be re-gassed and re-barreled, I went crying to SA save the ailing rifle from such ignominy. You get older and realize that luck eventually runs out--but you can have solid runs for a good stretch. Buy decent quality up front, learn from those with experience about the failings of the breed, and be ready to be disappointed. And if your needs are critical, have a back up weapon.
     
  14. twofifty

    twofifty Member

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    Could those who attend matches comment on the frequency of stoppages/malfs amongst competitors. Please leave aside the usual misadventures of novices.

    I've noticed that many lower-ranked competitors could improve their HFs if they took the trouble to reload ammo that runs their guns. ;)
     
  15. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    ok, that made me laugh out loud
     
  16. Welding Rod

    Welding Rod Member

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    The guys I compete with are almost all regular competitors and reloaders. Malfs are not common, ARs almost never and to the best of my recollection all related to poor reloads or "remanifactured" ammo.

    Most of the Malfs that do occur are the result of guys shooting military surplus guns that were worn out a decade or four ago, perhaps longer.

    Saw a newer SAI M1A bust a hammer in two. Maybe a couple of firing pin problems in older bolt guns, along with followers hanging up or tilting.
     
  17. Welding Rod

    Welding Rod Member

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    For handguns, most malfs, by far, are with 1911s. Especially when using reloads. Saw a thumb safety snap off one a couple months ago.
     
  18. CZ9shooter

    CZ9shooter Member

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    My CZ75 has been perfect through all sorts of load developements and even recoil spring experiments and tinkering with fire control parts. Little to no factory rounds however, so very little ammo QC variances to speak of. Never missed a beat. Not even when brand spanking new. About two thousand rounds. Only semi-auto that I have owned that I can speak that highly of.

    I am still in the revolver camp on that other thread though. I have never been witness to a revolver malfuction of any type.

    I carry a Jframe. Similar story, but no gun mods. Buffalo Bore 158 gr +P bullets do pull a little from their case, but nowhere near enough to be of concern. I do not carry that ammo anyway. Every other ammo type has been excellent. I TRUST this gun.
     
  19. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    I have had broken firing pin springs in a Rem 870.
    Failures can happen anytime. One of mine was in an ATA shootoff for Il State runner-up. It wasn't a big deal, a friend of mine won.....but I did go home and replace the springs on my Competition 870 and my HD 870.
     
  20. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    That is a big reason why I record probably 90% of my range trips. If the malfunction is easy to solve with immediate action, then it is possible to not remember it. Video helps with that.
     
  21. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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  22. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

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    I have several guns with just ridiculously good records for reliability. Start off with my Taurus PT-145 Millennium Pro. Never failed me a single time through about 5000 rounds or so. Then there's my Sig P220. I had some issues when I first bought it that turned out to be totally ammo related. I then had a period of about 10 years when it never once failed for any reason except when I tried using an after-market 10 round mag in it. That mag doesn't feed well. I did have some issues after about 15,000 rounds through that pistol. I had worn out the recoil spring. It only lasted about double what they're rated to last and that's during the time I owned it. I bought it used. It was likely a carry piece for a LEO and there's no telling how many times it was fired by that owner. I replaced that recoil spring and haven't had another issue of any kind.

    Then there's my S&W 629. It's never failed me yet.

    But then I start to think about my rifles. My SKS in particular has been crazy reliable. There hasn't been one issue with that rifle that wasn't related to ammo or my having changed parts in it. As soon as I went back to the original parts the problem stopped. I've put untold thousands of rounds through that thing and it keeps right on ticking like brand new. I have to admit that I did have an issue with popped primers but that was only in 2 boxes of ammo I bought from the same place. It's never happened with other ammo. If it does happen I know how to get it fixed.

    I have seen revolvers fail BTW. Not often but it does happen. I've seen broken firing pins and things as minor as bent extractor rods and the messed up springs that make them go back into place.

    I have seen more problems with semi-autos though. From broken sear springs to a gouge in the feed ramp to broken firing pins and messed up or worn out springs there are many things that can go wrong with pistols. But they are still reliable IMO. At least most of them are. If you can fire a few hundred rounds through them without issues the chances are you won't have issues when you need the gun either. There are lots of limp wristing theories going around and there may be something to that. I've never had to fire a weapon at anything more dangerous than a feral dog or a rabid fox. I would think a person's aim would go long before their ability to operate a semi-auto would.
     
  23. Anmut

    Anmut Member

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    I've had failure on a 629 once during a bowling pin match, this was after a LOT of hot rounds, the crane screw worked loose and the crane popped off during a reload.

    I've had my glocks fail when other people shooting due to limp wristing.

    I've had reloaded ammo fail to ignite when shooting 38sp in -10f weather.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  24. jeff-10

    jeff-10 Member

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    I am with taliv. I have friends who swear there guns never malfunction and look at me like i am an idiot when I talk about the unreliable ones I have owned. They also barely shoot and I shoot a lot.

    I don't necessarily believe all malfunctions on quality semi-auto handguns are ammo and mag related. I think limp wristing is an issue for a lot of people. Also, not all guns like all ammo, even major factory loaded ammo.

    Guns that I have personally had FTF and FTE issues:

    2 full size CZ-75Bs and a compact CZ-75. All in 9mm. A Beretta Nano. A Browning High Power in 40 S&W. A Sig P229 in 40 S&W. All are gone except the Nano and the P229. I've now put around 1k rounds through the P229 and cannot get it to stop misfeeding with UMC and WWB 180gr FMJs. Everything else works great. I may keep the P229 because it feeds the hotter JHPs reliability and a friend's P229 does the exact same thing with target ammo. I purchased the Nano expecting it not work 100% with everything so I can live with it not feeding all ammo.

    Disregarding my military service I cannot ever remember having any issues with long guns. I also have a SP 101 and GP 100 that have trigger pulls so heavy that people tend to short stroke them while firing in double action.
     
  25. Onward Allusion

    Onward Allusion Member

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    Outside of ammo issues, the only guns that have never failed for me are revolvers, bolt guns, single shots, & pump shotguns. Keep in mind, this is after the gun has been put through its paces and cleaned.

    Every semi that I have owned has failed at one time or another. Sometimes it's operator error, other times it's the lack of a break-in or cleaning, and still others - a complete failure of one of the components on the gun. It's just a matter of how often. An old beater that I really enjoy shooting, will experience a FTfeed or FTeject once every couple of thousand rounds. To me, that's SD quality. Any semi-auto SD gun, after a good cleaning, should be able to go through at least several hundred rounds flawlessly. If it doesn't, then it should be relegated to the range or be sold.
     
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