Ruger Bisley leading rather heavily

[eldon519]

I have a .45 Colt Ruger Bisley that I enjoy shooting. Lately I've been shooting Lasercast .454" 255-gr SWCs, bevel-base. I bought the .454" because the .452"s were out of stock at the time I ordered.

About a month ago, I reamed the cylinder throats with a tool from Brownells. When I most recently took the gun to the range, it seemed leading may actually have gotten worse. It's all in the barrel a short distance after the forcing cone extending maybe 1-2 inches, mainly collecting on the raised flats of the lands and in the corners of the grooves. I've never really paid particular attention to leading in my guns as none of them exhibit it too badly, but I thought I remembered the leading usually occurring in the grooves, not on the lands itself. In this case almost no lead was present in the actual grooves themselves, besides at the corners with the lands.

The gun has maybe 1500 rounds through it, mostly cast with few or possibly even no jacketed bullets through it. Most have been H-110 Ruger loads up until recent experimentation with Unique.

The load is a mid-level load of 11 grains Unique. I only put around 80 rounds through it since the last cleaning. Can anyone think why it might have gotten seemingly worse or why it would be leading on the lands? I have read before the Unique burns hot. I also know that Lasercast bullets are typically very hard, and probably too hard for the velocity/pressure I am producing. Maybe rather than cutting into the hard bullet, the lands are swaging in rounded-edge creases that aren't sealed well?

I'm hoping the problem does not call for lapping, as I don't want to keep having to put money into this revolver.

 

[Waywatcher]

In my (admittedly limited) experience, Unique does burn hot, and exasperate leading.

Does it have a restriction in the barrel near the forcing cone? A tight patch on a jag will tell you yes/no.

 

[918v]

Your bullet is too hard. Try a 12 BHN bullet and your leading will be no more. I had the same issue with my S&W 625. I was using Laser Cast 200gr SWC and it was leading horribly in the first inch of the barrel. The bullets were .4525" and a perfect fit in the cylinder, so size was not an issue. I recently tried Missouri Bullets 12BHN 200gr SWC and no leading at all. Best of all, the groups shrunk by 50%.

 

[murf]

eldon519,

tried to find your 11 grain load. found an 11 grain max load for a 240gn jacketed bullet in the sierra manual. this is the "ruger only" section. 11 grains of unique behind a 255gn lead bullet has gotta be way over a max load. this is probably the source of your leading problem.

murf

 

[TxAg]

What do your throats measure after you reamed them? Did you ream them because they were smaller than groove diameter?

 

[Ruger4Life]

Gas-checked bullets will probably solve your leading problem. Give it a try. The un-checked bases of the bullets melt, especially when using fast-burning powders like Unique. That molten lead has to go somewhere, and it is usually found later on the lands and grooves of your barrel!

I shoot only 310gr Oregon Trail True Shot (gas-checked) bullets. No leading, even at 1200fps, no matter what revolver I shoot it in. Oh yeah, and using a slow-burning powder like 296 or H110 helps too. Happy handloading!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You don't need gas checked bullets if you use the correct bullet and produce the correct pressures for the bullet you're using.

Very hard bullets like the ones sold by Laser Cast need to be pushed under high pressures or the bullet will not seal in the barrel. The hot gasses will bypass the base of the bullet and melt the sides of the bullet leaving a lot of lead behind. I'm not sure that's what is happening here because there are probably a lot of things going wrong all at once. (the cylinder work may be adding to the problem) Most .45 Colt loads will not require a bullet that's harder than 12 BHN. Using a bullet that's 21 or 22 BHN like those made by Laser Cast won't stop leading unless they are fired under very high pressures. They will probably cause more leading because they are so hard. That 11gr charge of Unique is a hot charge but obviously not hot enough to prevent the leading.

Good luck and please post if you find the answer.

 

[eldon519]

Waywatcher,
I've never noticed a restriction near the forcing cone, but I'll have to pay more attention when I go to clean it. I'd never thought of that as a way to feel for one, but that is a good idea.

murf,
Got the load information off of John Linebaugh's website. Starting load (Ruger loads mind you) for a 260-gr cast is 10.5 gr Unique at 24,800 CUP. 12 grains is said to give 30,000 CUP. Not all sources agree on what max Ruger pressure is, so that might be where the differing maxes come from. I believe Hodgdon also goes to 30 kCUP. [DISCLAIMER: CHECK THE SOURCE YOURSELF, DO NOT USE WHAT I HAVE STATED HERE AS SAFE LOAD INFORMATION]

TxAg,
The reamer was supposed to open the throats to .4525 I think. The throats were around .4500 or less.


I want to avoid full-time use of gas checks as frankly I think it's a crutch to correct other problems. I'm planning to start casting early this summer though, so I'll have more variables under my control at that time.

 

[highlander 5]

I've had loads of experience with 45 colt and Ruger revolvers and depending on when it was made you would have had 2 problems,1 tight throats and 2 a restriction where the barrel is screwed into the frame. Since you've reamed the cylinder throats try driving a .454 black powder ball down the bore you'll feel feel all the tight/rough spots.
I had the same problems and after having thee cylinders reamed and fire lapped the bore leading is pretty much gone. If it a stainless steel model lapping the bore is going to be a bear,trust me on that.

 

[918v]

Very hard bullets like the ones sold by Laser Cast need to be pushed under high pressures or the bullet will not seal in the barrel.

Are you suggesting the .454" slug is swaged down to under groove diameter by the forcing cone constriction and then is too hard to obturate the rest of the barrel?

 

[murf]

eldon519, bevel based bullets will lead a barrel when pushed much past 900fps. doesn't matter how hard cast. try reducing the load below 900fps and see if this cures the leading problem. i'm having the same problem with bevel based bullets and my 44spl.

murf

 

[TxAg]

+1 on what highlander 5 said.

You might try beartooth bullets, they sale slugs for checking throats and groove diameter, and they sale lapping compound and lapping bullets.

I bought some slugs and lapping compound from LBT, but have not fire lapped my barrel yet as I am shooting jacketed right now I was going to wait and see how the barrel breaks in before I take that step if I need to.

Both have good reading material available.

Good Luck,
J

 

[res45]

bevel based bullets will lead a barrel when pushed much past 900fps. doesn't matter how hard cast. try reducing the load below 900fps and see if this cures the leading problem. i'm having the same problem with bevel based bullets and my 44spl.

I must be lucky,before I started casting my own bullets all I shot in my Ruger BH 357/9mm convertible was Laser Cast 158 gr. BB SWC I shot those things for years with 14.5 grs. of IMR-4227 got great accuracy and never had any leading problems,MV ran right at 1300 fps. on the chrono.

A good chapter on Leading.
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm