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Russian Mak went full auto, shot my hand.

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Bam-Bam:

Is there any thing unusual about the magazine you used? Somehow it must've tripped the slide release when you inserted the mag, but I'm at a loss as to how. After that, I don't know how it would've fired unless (as previously stated) it is a sear problem.

Anyway, glad you are ok. Let us know what you find out.

R/fiVe
 
Glenn,

There's a bullet-sized entry wound, powder burn around the entry wound, and a nice exit wound. That tells me it wasn't the rear sight. ;)

I was talking to some guy at Turner's the other day that started coming up with some squib, bullet down the mag theory, but the angle in which the bullet went through my hand would indicate that it came out of the muzzle.

Look, if shooter error means I either might have flinched at the unexpected full auto, or I instinctively tried to wrestle the gun when it did, then maybe. I don't see how either can be labelled "unsafe gun handling." I pointed it downrange, I kept my finger off the trigger, I followed the four rules. Unless there's a fifth rules that states, "In the event your gun goes unexpectedly full auto while loading a magazine, you must maintain an iron grip on it and not allow the muzzle to runaway," I didn't handle my Mak unsafely. It was an accident. And I was scary calm when the whole thing went down, I have perfect recollection of the entire event. I wish I could give out phone number to individuals that were there, but this is the Internet, eh?

Go back to the gunboards thread. Sounds to me like people are offended that I named my gun, their beloved Makarov, as the offending pistol. They almost sound like Glockophiles that get offended and defensive anytime a malfunction with the pistol is even suggested, nevermind the facts. Again, I'm not denigrating the Makarov, just stating the facts. I'm almost certain I'll find questionable parts in the pistol once I get it back. There are those there that want so badly to believe in the Mak's design that they think I made this story up, for whatever reason, like I don't have a hole in my hand. :banghead:

At least you posted your questions with civility, Glenn. Thanks for that. :)

Oh, and the mag in the Russian Mak was the mag I took from my Bulgie. Had an extended brass floorplate on it from Mak.com. I also installed a Wolff 21# recoil spring in the pistol. That's it.
 
fiVe,

While I can't discount odd magazines on Bam-Bam's behalf, they're not necessarially at fault. Sometimes springs get weak, or guns get worn the right way, and the slide will slip off the catch when a sharp impact occurs (including putting in a new magazine).
 
Bam-Bam don't listen to all of the naysayers. It is normal for guys to rip on other guys on the internet. I have shot a full auto rifle before and it was a quite a handfull. I can't imagine how shocking it would be if a pistol did the same thing. It makes perfect sense to me what happened. I hope all get better in a hurry so you can get back out to the range.
 
All I can say is "Wow". Very glad you're OK BamBamBamBamBamBamBam31.

I have a PA-63 that I think'll I'll clean and lube tonight. I've owned two Russian maks a long time ago and only sold them because I got tired of the begging.

Now, they're hard to get again. :(
 
Awe....admit it....you handled the gun in an unsafe manner. :neener: :D

I, also, am glad that you weren't hurt any worse than you were and that no one else was injured in this incident. You'll definitely have to tell us what you find out about the gun, when you get it back. I appreciate you sharing your experience with us. I've never had a slam-fire on any of my firearms, and have not given a pistol any consideration of this kind of malfunction...until now. I can picture a slam-fire on an auto pistol very easily leading to an unloading of the mag. Just be glad you didn't have a 17-round, or larger, magazine. That could have gotten messy. I wish you well in your recovery.
 
Thinking about how Bam-Bam's hand got in front of the gun, it isn't too hard to see. Put your hand in position under the grip as if inserting a mag, hand cupped under the other hand still with some upward pressure. Hold that position, now consider the pistol firing 4 rounds instantaniously while your hand is there, and not expecting it. The gun is going to back up when firing 4 rounds fast, the weak hand may not have moved forward as much as the gun moving back behind it, likely with the last round going through his hand. Really doesn't seem hard to believe.



I'm still curious how the revolver someone mentioned went full auto when loading? :what:
 
I can't believe people are giving BamBam a hard time about his Mak. Let me phrase this so you knuckleheads understand. Crap happens!!!. Everything will fail at least once somewhere down the line. Nothing is infallible, especially a firearm made before most of you were just a twinkle in your dad's eye.

After reading BamBam's post, I can see it happening to me and I've got decades of gun handling experience under my belt. So all of you armchair Playstation commandos, shut the hell up. BamBam had the sacks to post an accident that happened to him and your fragging his ash.

Hate to tell you, a Makarov is not the most precise firearm on the market. It was produced by the hundreds of thousands in a very short time. There are bound to be some defects in a percentage of them. Like I said before, BamBam is lucky he didn't shoot little BamBam off. I can only attribute it to his skill with handling firearms.

Watching your 6, BB
 
What 50 Freak said; jeez, some people. :rolleyes:

Sorry to hear of your accident, bam-bam, and hope that you feel better soon.

Sawdust
 
Was just thinking again about this incident. And it just reminded me of a couple of things that happened to me.

I had a SKS (Chinese, full size) that would "slam fire" on a consistant basis. I'd empty a 10 round mag in a second even if my finger was off the trigger. Turns out some fool had tried screwing with the sear and made it that way. Didn't happen all the time though. Made me lose all confidence in SKS's period. Fixed and sold the darn thing. Actually sold or gave away the other 2 SKS's I also had.

Second gun is my FAL quick change para. I replaced the springs with aftermarket ones designed to lighten the trigger. I also replaced the standard lower with a lightweight one and added a few other aftermarket lightweight products. Rifle weighs about 7.5 with a red dot (and that is pretty good for a 308 battle rifle). Only problem is if I don't shoulder it tightly, it will let off a couple of double taps. It's especially fun when I put the 9mm sten conversion on it.

First time shooting it at an indoor range, it shoot... bang, bang, BBBBRRRRAAAAPPPPP. Luckily I only had 10 rounds loaded in the mag at the time. Unluckily I had a Sheriff shooting in the lane on my left and a couple of FBI guys on the range on my right. Guess they thought I was one of them as they didn't give me any hassles. Good thing they didn't notice the brown smelly stain at the seat of my pants when I packed up my stuff and VERY QUICKLY left.
 
:D LOL!! Thanks, guys. Man, I love this place.

Regarding making up ninja stories: Nah, don't need to. Next time someone asks if anyone's ever shot someone, I'll raise my right hand and say, "Yeah. Wasn't pretty. Rather not talk about it." If someone asks if anyone's ever been shot by someone, I'll raise my left hand and say, "Yeah. Wasn't pretty. Rather not talk about it." All in one fell swoop. :D
 
Oh Oh Oh....

Use my favorite mall ninja lines.....

"I could tell you but I'm not permited to for national security".

or

"I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you".

or

"I could tell you, but there are still operatives there and I can't risk releasing their names".

or

"I could tell you, but I've been sworn to secrecy by the president"

:evil: :evil: :evil:
 
My wife wants to know if I can sue the guy I bought the pistol from. She thinks he may have known that it was unsafe to fire. I bought it on consignment from a local gunsmith's, and she thinks they, too, should have known that the gun was unsafe. Again, I just think it's bad luck. Or good luck, since I still have all ten digits and a whole head of hair.
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eeeeeeeeeeerrrgggg. that doenst really seem right.

sorry about the misfortune though. man that had to hurt.

these are the stories that make me keep the mean end well away from my hand.

at least yer not as dumb as my worker who found a .22 in a pile of junk, and after being told to put it away unloaded, foolio loaded the derringer, snapped it shut, and put a bullet thru his hand.
his injuries were less then yours, but more stupid.
 
Glad to hear you are healing well and that you will be getting your gun back. I know that has to be a relief.

I understand what you mean about appeasing those close to you. I applaud you for doing the right thing.

Let us know what you find out regarding the Makarov. My interest is piqued.
 
What I actually Posted

One of Many, thanks for starting the thread over there by insinuating that I handled my Mak unsafely. I didn't, that's for damn sure.
Click to expand...


Sorry you were offended, that was not my intention.

What I wrote.
It sounds like some unsafe gun handling, combined with multiple failures/adjustments of parts in the gun.
Click to expand...

Your initial account made it sound like improper gun handling, combined with mechanical failure. You later supplied more information that seems to refute the assumption of careless handling.

My intention was to alert users of the Makarov of a real case of injury related to malfunction, and reinforce due caution of used guns in unknown condition.

Peace to you, and a speedy recovery
 
It's cool, I'm not one to hold grudges. Takes too much energy. Peace right back at ya. ;)

Thing is, I know I did right. If I was only 99.99% sure, I'd prolly hide under a rock somewhere for the next several months, not post about it here on THR. I got off pretty light, all things considered. And if people start saying, "Hey, remember what happened to BamBam?" and take an extra precaution or two, then all the better, eh? :)
 
I'm still curious how the revolver someone mentioned went full auto when loading?
Click to expand...

Wasn't went loading as far as I head it was right after the first shot. From what I heard it was the primer leaking gas back with enough force to push the hammer back.
 
Sounds like a true AD, not a ND!

Good luck with the healing and with making the wife happy :D
Please keep us posted as to what you find out about the Makarov, preferably in a seperate post so it will be easier to find. Hey, I'm lazy that way! :p
 
I hope you realize I am not saying you handled your pistol unsafely. What I am saying is that there apparently is the distinct possibility of such if only because the hand wound up in front of the muzzle. As I said in my earlier post, I understand there are a few ways your hand could wind up in that position without it being due to unsafe gun handling. I am just posting other possibilities because I know from experience and from what others have shared with me, and from my studies, that remembering everything perfectly is just about impossible. Of course you remember what you remember and to you that memory is perfectly held, it is crystal clear and you have no doubt it is correct. Though my bet is that if questioned on details over time your memories would change and, right now your meories would differ from those of others if someone questioned them objectively as to the finer details. This is just the way the little gray cells work. No big deal, I was only raising the issue so you could decide if you wanted to take a look back at this later on in a different light than under the current glare of the online spotlight.

As for it being a bullet wound, yeah that sure sounds like one to me too. Agaiun only raising possibilities.

All the best,
Glenn B
 
I am just posting other possibilities because I know from experience and from what others have shared with me, and from my studies, that remembering everything perfectly is just about impossible. Of course you remember what you remember and to you that memory is perfectly held, it is crystal clear and you have no doubt it is correct. Though my bet is that if questioned on details over time your memories would change and, right now your meories would differ from those of others if someone questioned them objectively as to the finer details.
Click to expand...

I understand what you wrote the first time around, and I'm telling you again, I remember the entire incident with crystal clarity, as impossible as that may sound to you. If other witnesses' accounts differ, it'll be because their attention was elsewhere the exact moment it happened (be it from shooting, watching other shooters, etc.). If memories change over time, well, not much I can do about that. Right now, I remember it pretty darn well.

Funny thing: I wrote about a guy they call "Sarge" a while back, and he happened to be two lanes over to my right that day (he was in #15, I was in lucky #13). When I went back to the range to talk to the range workers the other day, Jim the Range Master told me that Sarge pulled him aside and told him that he saw it happen. Sarge said I did well to keep my head, despite the unexpected full auto and despite getting shot. I don't know him personally, that's just what Jim told me. And Sarge ain't the easiest guy to please, either.

I was shooting with two other buddies that day, Beetle Bailey being one of them (any day now, man), but my guess is that both were too busy setting up and/or shooting to have actually witnessed the incident. Right after the full auto, Shawn the Range Master kept yelling, "Get a tourniquet! Get a tourniquet!" and started taking off his belt. This concerned me somewhat, and I think Beetle noticed. He took his T-shirt off and handed it over to me so I could bandage the hand instead. (He had two layers on, so it wasn't like he was butt nekkid, folks. ;) ) Gotta love friends that'll give you the shirts right off their backs, eh? :)

Anyways, I'll be sure to start a new thread about the Mak once I get it back. I'll bring it to a smith and have him check it out. Haven't even received the DOJ forms from Azuza PD yet, however. :rolleyes: Thanks again for all the kind words and support, everyone. :)
 
Bam Bam, thanks for your reply to my post. I have posted a link and a reference to your post #72 on the Makarov forum.

Any comparison to the "Glock is God" crowd should be enough to get critics to lighten up. :D

Since you are not a regular visitor to the Mak forum, you would naturally not have a feel for the personalities of specific members there. We pretty much run the gamut from quick to judge to very nonjudgmental, and the insulation provided by the nature of the internet fosters frankness.

Your willingness to share specifics relating to your accident is very convincing to me, though I did not need convincing. However, the unqualified support you are no doubt getting from those close to you is unlikely to be mirrored on the internet. Please understand this has nothing to do with you. It's the nature of the internet.

Your willingness to share information about this accident may well serve to save others from a similar occurrence, and that is a real testimony to your integrity.

It will probably help to understand the quickness of Makarov enthusiasts to defend the design. That comes in large part from enduring years of "commie junk" comments. One post on this thread sort of ran in that direction. It was a member who is a Colt devotee, and seemed to imply that Colt weapons are free of such malfunctions :rolleyes: . I was not offended :cool: . He is a Colt guy, and I'm not, though they have made some very fine weapons.

My greatest wish in this matter is that you emerge whole, in body and in spirit, and that this accident does not become a defining moment. Defining moments often anchor us to a moment in time, and can color lives anywhere from years to permanently. If you read that as "get over it," I mean it only in the most positive and supportive sense. CB
 
Sure is comforting to know that others would jump in and help the way they did.
 
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