That's very relevant. There should be no way that is possible on a P95 if it is working properly. They cannot be "cocked and locked". A mystery though as to what could go wrong mechanically where that could happen. Please let us know what Ruger says.
scariest moment of my life
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That's very relevant. There should be no way that is possible on a P95 if it is working properly. They cannot be "cocked and locked". A mystery though as to what could go wrong mechanically where that could happen. Please let us know what Ruger says.
dmazur
Member
I didn't see an answer. I think I know how this can happen:
The retaining strap can "jump" inside the trigger guard during re-holstering. If everything lines up just right (or wrong...) it can catch on the opposite side of the holster. As the user pushes the pistol down, the strap presses the trigger.
I have a very, very old leather Safariland for a Commander that has such a strap. I stuff it inside my pants behind the holster until the weapon is holstered, then dig it out and secure it. I only use it for a "field holster", not for CCW (which is a Galco slide type -- no straps to mess with.)
While this is rare, I've heard of it happening to DA revolvers as well as pistols.
(Also, I've heard of this happening with a leather thumb break that curls in from the outside if the user doesn't hold it out of the way while re-holstering. The friction-fit leather or Kydex have no straps and probably aren't as likely to do this, though a molded edge could catch a trigger if the user tried really hard
)As long as the thumb safety is on, a 1911 should be immune to this. (Other than the profanity that it causes, it shouldn't cause an AD.)
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chris in va
Member
Tell you what, I've certainly had clothes snag on my trigger guard when holstering. One of the main reasons why I don't have something in SA.
But please send it back to Ruger so we know what the cause was. Tell you what, before you send it back, empty the gun and try to fire it again without the trigger. Just do a reenactment of the situation.
I still don't get it though, if it fired without the trigger wouldn't the firing pin safety catch it even if the hammer dropped?
But please send it back to Ruger so we know what the cause was. Tell you what, before you send it back, empty the gun and try to fire it again without the trigger. Just do a reenactment of the situation.
I still don't get it though, if it fired without the trigger wouldn't the firing pin safety catch it even if the hammer dropped?
NavyLCDR
member
There are two kinds of firing pin safeties in general use and I can't remember the names of them right now. But I know how to check for porper operation of both. This needs to be done with an empty magazine in the gun and no ammo in the gun.
Insert magazine. Rack slide, release the slide lock and ensure slide is fully forward. On SA/DA pistols such as P95's the hammer should be cocked.
Hold the hammer back with your thumb and pull the trigger fully back and observe the area between the hammer and the firing pin. On one type of safety, called a transfer bar, a bar will rise up to the space behind the firing pin. When the hammer falls, it strikes the transfer bar which in turn transfers the energy to the firing pin. The bar should only rise when the trigger is fully depressed and should lower when the trigger is released. The hammer is not supposed to contact the firing pin unless that bar is raised, thus preventing AD.
If the gun has a hammer block safety, you might not see anything when the trigger is pulled. Keep holding the trigger all the way back and lower the hammer. It should strike the firing pin. Now release the trigger slowly and watch the hammer. You should see it move backwards slightly, away from the firing pin. The hammer block is engaging to keep the hammer off the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear. I think you check firing pin blocks this same way.
I think transfer bar safeties are used mostly on revolvers.
Insert magazine. Rack slide, release the slide lock and ensure slide is fully forward. On SA/DA pistols such as P95's the hammer should be cocked.
Hold the hammer back with your thumb and pull the trigger fully back and observe the area between the hammer and the firing pin. On one type of safety, called a transfer bar, a bar will rise up to the space behind the firing pin. When the hammer falls, it strikes the transfer bar which in turn transfers the energy to the firing pin. The bar should only rise when the trigger is fully depressed and should lower when the trigger is released. The hammer is not supposed to contact the firing pin unless that bar is raised, thus preventing AD.
If the gun has a hammer block safety, you might not see anything when the trigger is pulled. Keep holding the trigger all the way back and lower the hammer. It should strike the firing pin. Now release the trigger slowly and watch the hammer. You should see it move backwards slightly, away from the firing pin. The hammer block is engaging to keep the hammer off the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear. I think you check firing pin blocks this same way.
I think transfer bar safeties are used mostly on revolvers.
Occaisionally, my P89 will do this. however it's usually the case that the slide is out of alignment (perhaps it shouldn't be.) I've only ever noticed this happening when there's no magazine in the gun. I did investigate further, and even though the hammer is cocked, the transfer bar is in it's recessed position, and can't be struck by the hammer.
Unless the gun is a Ruger P-series with a safety on safe, in which case, it decocks as the slide moves into battery.
On my P89, the firing pin looks like a block under the hammer, and when it's on safe, the block actually moves forward, and recesses inside the frame, and can not be struck by the flat hammer.
abrink
Member
Well gun was sent to ruger today. I'll post the response they give me here as soon as i get one.
Dravur
Member
Wait a minute,,,,
Were you the only one in the room with enough skill to handle that firearm? Are you DEA?
Were you the only one in the room with enough skill to handle that firearm? Are you DEA?
I won't give you a hard time as I carry this way too. My Glock 27 never has a round in the chamber when it's holstered. I just don't trust anything "man made" well enough to take that chance. Just like yourself - I can jack the slide plenty fast. It's all built into my practice routines. The obvious downside is the "what if" about the other hand and a little extra time. However, I've practiced a few other ways to jack the slide in an emergency - one including my teeth.
abrink
Member
^^^^^^^^^^^ well i was the only one in the room...so i guess.
I assure you though i did not pull the trigger on the weapon and i dont THINK anything else did.
I assure you though i did not pull the trigger on the weapon and i dont THINK anything else did.
give
Member
i would think if it was a hot weapon ,first thought would be did you hit the trigger while standing?had a gun go off on me when i was a kid,13,messing with my daddys 38,pulled it out of the holster and bang,after dropping it and running like hell,my next move was to scoop the damage out of my underware,lol
Well the OP already said that there was something mechanically wrong with the gun. He said the hammer would stay cocked with the safety on. No Ruger P-series works like that, which means that something was not right with his gun. I've never heard something like this happening with Rugers but it just goes to show that any man-made mechanical device can fail when there's enough of them produced and sold.
One case like this isn't going to make me think any differently of my own Rugers, I trust them just the same now as I did before reading this thread, they've more than proven themselves to me in my experiences.
One case like this isn't going to make me think any differently of my own Rugers, I trust them just the same now as I did before reading this thread, they've more than proven themselves to me in my experiences.
abrink
Member
Ruger gave me a call. They said they could not find anything wrong with it but they are going to check it again.
Well my theory is anything that is mechanical has a slight chance of failing. Whether that be a firing pin safety or any other mechanical object.
Well my theory is anything that is mechanical has a slight chance of failing. Whether that be a firing pin safety or any other mechanical object.
moooose102
Member
i have to tell you, that if they send it back without finding a problem, i would take it someplace and trade it in on a different gun. that way, you will not be responsible for it, and you can buy a gun that will (hopefully)not malfunction on you. even if it isnt the gun, and you can find another one with some additional safety feature. i know i have pulled my Taurus 24/7 pro out of my holster a couple of times, and the safety had gotten clicked to the fire position. since it happened the first time, i am always warry to keep my finger out of the trigger gaurd when i draw it. i sincerly HOPE they DO find some kind of problem with it! good luck!
10 Ring Tao
Member
You're not a pilot, are you?
mindwip
Member
I am confused about something, you said that the Hammer was back when you/dad where "playing" with it, is it possible you left the hammer back/cocked?
Thats why i like these type of holsters, the strap goes under the hammer SA gun OR it goes over the hammer DA type of gun, either way the hammer can not be cocked and/or hit the firing pin.
Would this type of holster stopped this type of accident, even if the gun was not working the right way??
Thats why i like these type of holsters, the strap goes under the hammer SA gun OR it goes over the hammer DA type of gun, either way the hammer can not be cocked and/or hit the firing pin.
Would this type of holster stopped this type of accident, even if the gun was not working the right way??
Honestly, this is a very rare thing.... but still, the basic reason I don't carry at the "12 oclock" position... *gulp*...
Although I've never seen anything like this happen.... still just can't get beyond the thought that if I were somehow cursed or something, I'd rather lose my little toe or part of my butt than more valuable hardware...
Please let us know what ends up happening with Ruger on this situation...
Although I've never seen anything like this happen.... still just can't get beyond the thought that if I were somehow cursed or something, I'd rather lose my little toe or part of my butt than more valuable hardware...Please let us know what ends up happening with Ruger on this situation...
abrink
Member
Mindwip i think that holster would have solved my problem and stopped the accident from happening. I don't think i will ever purchase an open top holster again.
Once again i really don't know what or how it happened i just know it did.
Once again i really don't know what or how it happened i just know it did.
SAWBONES
Member
Har! A world-changing observation, that!
But in other words, no answer at all.
When the gun went off, in what condition did you find it within the holster? Was the slide partly retracted or the hammer back? I never saw any actual description of the state of the P95 sidearm within the holster after the BANG.
shooting time
Member
ruger just had a recall on one of their automatics but i can't remember which model
Some P series pistols have safety levers that are pretty stiff. Since the safety also works as a decocker, if the safety lever isn't pushed fully into the safe position the hammer could remain in the cocked position and I suppose(possibly) in some instances when the gun is jolted a bit they could fire but should not unless the trigger is pulled.
abrink
Member
I need opinions. Well i'm not sure if i mentioned this but i loved that gun before it happened. Now if ruger comes back and says that nothing is wrong with it, do you think i should accept it back. I mean they've had the gun for a very long time and i believe that if they say nothing is wrong...nothing is wrong.
Any opinions? If it was you what would you do?
Any opinions? If it was you what would you do?
The SR9 was recalled. A completely unrelated gun. The P85 was recalled back in the 1980s due to a problem with the decocker. That was fixed with the introduction of the P85MKII and P89. All P-series models after the original P85 has the new safety design.
I'm still not really clear on what exactly happened to begin with.
Was the hammer cocked while the gun was in the holster? Was the manual safety on? If both of these conditions were met, something was seriously wrong, because the safety when put "on" decocks the hammer automatically, and blocks the firing pin. Not to mention the firing pin safety that blocks the firing pin unless the trigger is at the full rear position.
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