School Lockdown

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by GullyFoyle, Mar 1, 2006.

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  1. 1911JMB

    1911JMB Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    At the school I went to, in the event of a school shooting, one of many drug dealers packing heat would have gunned the shooter down. But of course nobody in charge would admit to that, and so we did those stupid lock down drills. Well, more accurately, I went to the principal, and told him that I would not take part in practicing the very suicidal idiocy that cost 13 people their lives at columbine. I told him that I wanted to have a meeting with him and the chief of police to discuss the absurdity of their plan. I was simply given permission not to participate, not that I would have anyway.

    I have always maintained that the best thing to do in the event of being unarmed and getting trapped in an office/school shooting is to strip a power cord, wait behind a corner, and hook the ends of the wire to each of the assailants ears, which would certainly cause instant incapacitation, and probably death. In a school, there are often other dangerous objects available, namely in woodshop, foods, and science classes. Of course fighting back with inferior weaponry is a risky move, but I'd rather do that then get blown to bits while cowering underneath a table.
  2. GruntII

    GruntII member

    Jan 29, 2006
    Central Alabama
    Good points. I recieved a similar training brief. I have also seen about 10 minutes of the 60 plus hours of tape taken out of the camps in A stan. It worries me greatly as most PDs, Boards of education , and governments in this country look at this from a liability aspect instead of a survival aspect for the people who have to lock themselves into rooms (ever so helpful for hostage takers). I realize active shooter response has become one of the new buzz words in training and planning for coppers but if this sort of thing is done by a hard gang (MS-13) or a dedicated individual or two who put any thought into it lockdown and normal active shooter response will just get lots of folks killed. And God help us if the pros'(Terrs) ever run such an op. wrapping people in violent situations into nice self contained packages is just about the most reckless thing I can imagine. The worse thing is so many people practice this tripe and then when the short comings are brought up they say "it's okay it will never happen here" which is about the most unprofessional, most ameteurish thing that can be said.
  3. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

    Jan 3, 2003
    SE Wisconsin
    Yeesh. Reading that blog pretty much makes a school a cattle slaughtering pen. A school would be an ideal target for terrorist- nobody is armed because of strict and highly punitive laws and the victims are trained to put themselves in easily controlled groups.

    I never considered a school attack by Al-q, but now it seems liek the ideal place for an attack on our soil by small cells. I hope (wish) that there are terrorists at Gitmo that are getting their fingernails pulled out right now in attempts to gain information from them.
  4. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Feb 16, 2003
    Ft. Worth
    You are right that there are alternatives to firearms, but the real benefit of allowing teachers and staff to be armed is the deterrent factor, not the usefulness of the firearm itself.

    Sure there are many ways to fight back, but if a student is considering going on a rampage, the knowledge that every teacher is armed might persuade him to change his plan.

    It has done wonders for car jackings here in Texas :evil:
  5. nfl1990

    nfl1990 Member

    Sep 17, 2005
    So you are saying that you think a chair leg provides a good means of defending your self from an attacker who had a 12-gauge, or a semi-auto rifle?
    Do you own an HD gun? If so why? Couldn't you just use a baseball bat?
  6. SapperLeader

    SapperLeader Member

    Mar 29, 2003
    I think a lot of people are missing or twisting Lawdogs point. He’s not saying that these options are better than a firearm, he is saying that just because you dont have a firearm it doesn’t mean your defenseless. I carry all the time, but I had to stow the ccw many times because I was going to a school event for my little sister. There’s all sort of legal everyday items you can defend yourself with, and there is always improvised weapons around you in your environment. Where there’s a will, there’s a weapon, and you can fight back as long your blood is pumping and there is breath in your body.

    As far as the lockdown goes, I think its a decent answer to a scary question. Would I prefer armed teachers, and security in the schools? Sure I would, but even if that happens tomorrow, the lockdown is a good way to account and secure children while someone deals with the crisis.
  7. James T Thomas

    James T Thomas Member

    Sep 15, 2005
    Pittsburgh, PA
    after it's all said and done

    My comments carry some cynacism in them, however, all my grey hair entitles me, so please bear with me.

    The many responding teachers such as "Migoi" and others have enthusiasm for parents, community groups, students, ect. to become involved in their schools at school board meetings and open houses, but being involved is just another way of saying let us hear your gripe, but we know what you don't -that the decisions have already been made!

    That includes the decisions for such crises that incur the lockdown.
    The people who have been given authority, that is appointed positions,
    are arrogantly sure of their competence, after all, they are in the position of authority, aren't they?
    And so, the school admistrators, and law enforcement officials will let you air your disapproval at the public meetings, but, for sure, the "fate has been already accomplished."

    The altruistic teachers responding here who would sacrifice themselves to save their charges would do just that. Sacrifice themselves, but that would not save one poor child. The spirited officers who would aggressively be there to save the kids, would in all reality, be restrained beforehand by their superior officers, who by the nature of rising through the ranks have become less and less; serve and protect oriented, and more and more politically motivated,to the point of delay and await asessment (the brass mulling over what would sound best for them) and gather information (what does the city hall boss want done). -Reguardless of all the charge in plans that have been declared.

    Sorry, I warned you about the cynicism, but if you live long enough you learn some things about the human race and the inner workings of actuality.

    My own advise, based on my life experience? I would advise my two sons to escape and evade! My military background which has always been correct in the dangerous situations I have faced tells me that if you are unable to shoot, move, or communicate, you chances of survival are lessened.
    To be corraled into a classroom to await the Cavalry is foolishness.
    Just how many threads have been posted here about a cop never being around when you need them, or just how long it takes for the police to arrive after 911 notification? Even ten minutes (and that is gracious, by today's undermanned standards) -can be a "lifetime."
    The exception might be with the very young who would require adult leadership; the self sacrificing -bless them, teachers to shepherd the children to safety instead of bewilderment. But not to gather them into a herd for slaughter.

    I think it is less of a mass killing situation to shoot fleeing targets than the ones who compliantly sit down in a group for arcade shooting.
    The presupposition of those that support lockdown is that rescue will arrive and be effective.
    What have the past instances shown? After every one of those, the politicians, police, and school admistrators have all, in each and every one of those terrible shootings, assured the public that things have changed, that new tactics are in place, that plans have been developed, so just trust them, and be assured that this will not happen ever again.

    We "slept at dawn in Pearl Harbour", right up to the situation after the attack on the World Trade Towers has only served to convince me that the "human factor" is alive and well. Aren't all the debacles at the airports; shoe bombs, media expose' of this weakness and that, the "Portgate" occurence as it is called, enough to justify some skepticism? Just trust them they say.
    They have your best interests at heart.

    Will you bet your life, or rather the life of your child or grandchild on the word of one of those "in authority?"

    It has been said over and over, right here on THR, your security is in you own hands. It is your responsibility.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2006
  8. V4Vendetta

    V4Vendetta member

    Nov 30, 2005
    NC, USA
    I remember at my old school, the chairs we had were made of heavy iron. They would be a good improvised weapon though a pain to sit in.
  9. Maxwell

    Maxwell Member

    Jan 19, 2006
    I agree, but in this context I think we're walking a long way east to get west.

    Lockdown sounds like a ready made disaster. All the gunmen have to do is show up and you take yourselfs as unarmed hostages inside a building they will soon control.
    How do you keep a door from being breached with a crowbar?
    How do you help a teacher who might have a madman on his hands?
    How do you stop them from opening room after room to exicute the captives on national TV?

    To avoid arming a teacher we still have to spend money on hardware and time for training. Id say you would have spend less for guns if we did that in the first place.

    If youve got a pissed woman with a gun behind some of those barricaded doors, the balance of power in this situation shifts dramaticly. You go from "ready-made hostage crises" to "assault on armed fortress" without needing that many weapons or that much money.

    I still say outside is the best place to be in almost any emergency, but if you must be inside then get the right tools and do it properly.
  10. grimjaw

    grimjaw Member

    May 9, 2005
    You can't carry on school property. This is a Bad Thing. This is an infringment on your Second Amendment Rights. Now, improvise, adapt and bloody well overcome.

    +2 LawDog, and thanks for the reminder.

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