Why do people hate the 9mm?

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Hostile Amish

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I've noticed that many people don't like the 9mm, for reasons ranging from unreliability to low stopping power. Why all the hatred? 9mm has what a good pistol cartridge should have. It has low recoil (for better controllability), it is a NATO round (which means it will almost never be in short supply), and it offers high capacity in a small size. Additionally, it is cheaper than almost any other alternatives (which means it is easier on your wallet for practice). Personally, I can shoot several 9mm's in the time it takes to shoot a few .45's.

Also, 9mm guns tend to be much lighter than .45 counterparts, examples being Glock and 1911 pistols. This makes them easier and more comfortable to carry.

As for usefulness in a combat situation, the 9mm is much easier to shoot while under pressure than a larger .40 or .45. The speed and accuracy at which you can shoot a 9mm easily makes up for the (small) ft-lbs energy difference.

If there are any critical problems with 9mm, please tell me. I just want to know what's the deal with people disliking 9mm.
 
Seems like a lot of shooters want to believe in the 'magic bullet' theory, whereby if you shoot 'the magic bullets' then The Bad Guys will become immediately incapacitated and cease all hostilities. Since bigger == better, then the Magic Bullets must be the ones that are bigger.
 
Some folks don't like it because it doesn't "stop" a threat as quickly. Personally, I can shoot my 9mm Glock's better than my .45s. But this is also due to practice. I've had my 9mms a lot longer. I practice with my .45s, and I'm comfortable with them. But shot for shot, speed and accuracy, I am better with the 9s.

But boy...firing my 1911 .45 one handed makes me feel GOOD.
 
Most people know as much about terminal ballistics as they do about quantum physics. That is, they rely on rumor, mythology, word of mouth, anecdotal evidence, magazine and book articles, and price.

9mm is just fine for fighting with quality defensive ammunition. I agree that 9mm 115 grain FMJ ammuntion is not very good. However, we're talking about using good expanding ammunition here.

Besides, pistols terminal ballistics suck. We have them because they're portable, not because they have rifle ballistics.
 
I am a huge 9MM fan. I also like other calibers like the .45, .380, .38 Spl, etc and carry many of these. 9MM is a very effecient, somewhat economical round that is accurate, allows hi capacity and with modern JHP ammo is fine fo self defense. "Hating" it is akin to people who are reletively ignorant about calibers and firearms in general.
 
"Also, 9mm guns tend to be much lighter than .45 counterparts, examples being Glock and 1911 pistols. This makes them easier and more comfortable to carry.

As for usefulness in a combat situation, the 9mm is much easier to shoot while under pressure than a larger .40 or .45. The speed and accuracy at which you can shoot a 9mm easily makes up for the (small) ft-lbs energy difference."

While some 9mms are diminutive there are plenty that have as much heft as some .40s and .45s. Weight of a firearm does influence carryability but it is not the only factor. Edges, angles, length, width, carry options, etc also influence what I decide carry. My Glock 29 carries much easier than my CZ P01 or CZ 2075 ever did (both 9mms, BTW).

As for usefulness in "combat situations" all I can add is that you should carry your maximum effective caliber - the largest caliber that you shoot well from a platform that fits you. No, I'm not talking about your 10.5" SW 500; I'm talking about firearms built for what some refer to as "social" situations. For many that may be the 9mm from a Glock subcompact (FWIW, the ergos of the G26 were terrible for me but the G27 was darn-near perfect). For others, like me, that may be the 10mm, .45, .38, .357, etc from a 4" all-steel revolver or a full size 1911. I know you selected the .40 and .45 as "alternative" calibers to the 9mm since they are popular semi-auto chamberings, but in reality there are many more caliber options as well as numerous good platforms.

So, why do I carry a 10mm and .38/.357? Because I can. Because I shoot my Glock and snubbies very well. Because the 10mm and .357 are, IMO, superior to the 9mm. For that matter, I'd take my .38 642 over a Glock 26 any day. And there's more. . .
 
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Because having that big .45 gives me more peace of mind. And that means I am not second guessing my equipment choices and can focus more on the important things.

Do what works for you is usually my suggestion. Just about all handgun calibers are really under powered for the task at hand.
 
First: there's a really big difference between hate, and preference.

It has low recoil (for better controllability), it is a NATO round (which means it will almost never be in short supply), and it offers high capacity in a small size. Additionally, it is cheaper than almost any other alternatives (which means it is easier on your wallet for practice). Personally, I can shoot several 9mm's in the time it takes to shoot a few .45's.

Also, 9mm guns tend to be much lighter than .45 counterparts, examples being Glock and 1911 pistols. This makes them easier and more comfortable to carry.

You're comparing apples and oranges. The 1911 is all metal while the Glock is mostly much lighter polymer. A metal 9mm like my Walther weighs more than my .40 cal. So by your logic I can say that my .40 is the better carry weapon.

The problem I have with new Glocks has nothing to do with weight, and everything to do with ergonomics. The one-size-fits-none grip of the Glock simply doesn't feel right in my hand. The finger groves molded into the polymer are made for someone about half my size, and I just can't see paying that much for a pistol that doesn't feel good to shoot, and I have no time or patience for reworking the thing. That's why I bought my S&W.

Not to turn this into an I hate Glock thread, I think they make fine weapons and I would buy a used first generation Glock if I could find one.

As for availability of ammo, I've never had a problem finding 9mm, .45 acp, or .40 S&W. I don't believe in SHTF, day-after nonsense, so I don't think I'll be reduced to scavenging any time soon, but if that happened who do think would have the ammo for your 9mm? That's right, you'd have to take it away from a bunch of cranky military types and police officers. Personally, I'd rather take my S&W .40 and hide in a cave somewhere until it's safe to come out.

As for usefulness in a combat situation, the 9mm is much easier to shoot while under pressure than a larger .40 or .45. The speed and accuracy at which you can shoot a 9mm easily makes up for the (small) ft-lbs energy difference.

And, you've tested this how?

I've been in combat with nothing but a pistol in my hand, and I can tell you that I want all of the power I can get, especially if the other guy has a long gun, or a MG.

As for speed and accuracy, that's simply a matter of practice. I'll put my 15 round, or as some like to call it, my 14 +1, S&W against a 9mm any day. I shoot fast, and I get consistent tight groups at 25 - 50 yards. I did the same when I carried a 1911 (old school army). Actually, the same goes for any pistol I've carried including my .38spl, 45LC and .44mag revolvers. You put the time in at the range and pay attention to what you're doing and you'll shoot just fine with anything you decide to carry.

If there are any critical problems with 9mm, please tell me. I just want to know what's the deal with people disliking 9mm.

Nope, no critical problems. Like I said, it's a matter of preference, not hatred. I like the 9mm just fine. I have a really nice antique 9mm that I still take to the range, and if a good deal on a modern 9mm came along I would take it. I might even carry it occasionally.

The 9mm has plenty of penetrating power. In fact, in most ballistics tests I've seen it penetrates better then either .45 or .40. However, the heavier, bigger rounds of the .45 and .40, in my opinion - your mileage may vary - simply have a little more knock down power, and are less likely to travel through the body of your target and injure an innocent party down the street.

I've seen what both the 9mm and .45 acp can do to a man at relatively close range, and based on personal experience I chose the bigger caliber.
 
You want my opinion...it is the whole "gangsta" culture where firearms are part of the whole "bling"...and in rap/urban/gangsta culture the 9mm is not cool. It is all about the .40...now why that is, I don't know.

I have noticed this in a number of situations where the whole "hat on backwards" crowd (in my direct observations, young men of European descent with baggy pants and giant gold chains) at gun shops spouting off "I ain't liking them 9's". These clowns have no idea what they really know or don't know about one caliber or another.

There are, of course, other valid comments above about ball ammo and whatnot. With good, modern JHP, the 9mm is an outstanding SD/HD cartridge for citizens not needing to penetrate body armour...of course a .45 is not going to do that either.

People "hate" out of ignorance. People have educated preferences about caliber because of facts.
 
and in rap/urban/gangsta culture the 9mm is not cool. It is all about the .40...now why that is, I don't know.

Notorious BIG and Tupac were both supposedly killed with a 40cal.
 
I don't hate it, but I do much prefer the .45. I like shooting 9MM more and more these days, as it is much cheaper.
 
I like the 9mm. When I carry mine I never feel underarmed. I prefer the report and "push" a .45 gives me at the range. I can shoot the .45 as accurate and fast as the 9mm. So why bother with it?
The 9mm is a great load for people who are recoil sensitive. In my opinion (which counts for nothing) none of the top four most popular handgun loads are "one shot stoppers"
Practice-practice-practice....
 
The myth/complaints about the 9mm not having stopping power stems from the military having to use FMJ bullets. With the proper bullet, the 9mm will work just fine. Yes I preferred the 1911 over the M9 while in the Army but stopping power wasn't really a factor at the time for me (reliability was).
 
I agree with Sato Ord about the use of the word hate.

There are many people who prefer to use bigger bullets and/or more power to get a critical job done as quickly as possible. That job in defensive handgun use is to stop a deadly threat.

First, any defensive handgun round is underpowered and that is why it is taught to shoot twice to the center of mass with a major caliber (45acp, 10mm, 40S&W for example) and three times with a minor caliber (9mm, 38spl for example).

Many times a shooter and the bullet perform in the best possible way and the threat is not instantly stopped. Some heart-shot people continue to fight for many seconds more. Think how many aimed shots can be fired in only 5 seconds. This is why training to use cover is important.

If you are not considering stopping a deadly threat then the considerations change.
 
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Hollow-points haven't always worked as advertised. We are fortunate to have excellent defensive ammunition that expands pretty reliably today, but it has not always been the case. A lot of older hollow-point designs often failed to expand or worse, over-expanded and limited penetration. These facts are what partially fuel the mentality that "a 9mm may not expand, but a .45 won't get any smaller". With the ammunition available today, I do not personally believe that this argument holds as much water.

A lot of people also point to the Miami Shootout in which one of the armed felons was shot through the side with the bullet coming to rest either touching or just short of his heart (can't recall). The bullet was a 9mm Winchester 115-grain Silvertip. I believe this event is partially what led to the FBI penetration standards of 12" in ballistic gel. I think too much weight is put on the fact that it was a 9mm round that failed to make it to the heart. The 115-grain weight is the lightest of the three most common 9mm weights (115, 124, 147) and lighter bullets tend to penetrate less. If you look at the sources below and compare the performance of the 9mm 115-grain Win Silvertip to the .45 185-grain Win Silvertip (note: also the lightest of the three most common .45 weights, 185, 200, 230), it does not appear that the situation would have been much different with the analogous .45 load. I do believe it does go to show that it is worth researching and carefully selecting your carry ammunition based on the wealth of test results available in this day and age.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/45acp.htm
http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/9mm.htm
 
It is this for me...
While a 9mm may expand in a goblin... the .45 will not be shrinking...
I want big holes and lots of damage.
I reload, the cost of .45 over 9mm really doesnt matter to me.
I shoot what I am most comfortable with and what I feel will do the most damage.
I will be getting a 10mm later also.


Jim
 
Nine is fine by me. My G26 is easy to shoot and cheaper to practice with and I dont reload. Im even comfortable with my .38 special.
 
“As for usefulness in "combat situations" all I can add is that you should carry a firearm in a chambering that you shoot well.” Thirdeagle is absolutely right.

The .45 is deeply rooted in our history as a nation; it is American as apple pie. If one simply compares the ballistics of the .45 vs. the 9 mm, the .45 wins hands down. Having carried a 1911A1 during one tour back in 1969, I was confident that should the need arise it was more than adequate for the purpose intended, a highly lethal short range defensive weapon.

However, having talked on many occasions with a gentleman who served in the Rhodesian army during the “bush war” I have a deep respect for the 9 mm. To those who are unfamiliar with the history of this conflict it was a war between the white minority Rhodesian government and black nationalists supported by the USSR, East Germany, Cuba and China based in neighboring Mozambique and Zambia. It was a guerilla war that lasted over 15 years with numerous cross border raids by both sides. The Rhodesians used 5 man teams composed of 2 whites and 3 blacks with the 2 whites being the shooters. During raids on guerilla training camps the shooters would first move quickly though the camps and shoot everything that moved, his preferred weapons were 9 mm Browning Hi Power pistol. His job was to put rounds on target as quickly and accurately as possible with the intent to incapacitate individuals. The 3 black team members would follow up and terminate the wounded, usually with FAL’s and 12 ga. shotguns. War is hell.

The 9mm was repeatedly used effectively in close combat because of its offensive capability; size, weight, speed, accuracy, ease and capacity. Gotta respect his choice.
 
I'm a .45ACP and .357 Magnum shooter by preference, but I have four 9mms that I would trust my life to, just not with FMJ.

FMJ in all duty calibers is rather lame medicine. If I have some 124-147 gr JHPs for the 9mm, I am fine with it because as Josef Stalin was reported to have remarked, "Quantity has a quality all its own."

The 9mm is adequate in JHP trim, but I want that double stacked magazine of them.:D
 
The speed and accuracy at which you can shoot a 9mm easily makes up for the (small) ft-lbs energy difference.

Energy is overrated when you're trying to stop an attack. A nice, slow blow to your head with a baseball bat will be much worse than a very fast blow with a pencil. The difference between .45 and 9mm is not as extreme, but the principle remains.

WRT guns and ease of shooting, an XD in .45 feels a LOT like one in 9mm. You're just "limited" to only 13+1 rounds.

I'd use a good 9mm or a .45, but 230 grains is a lot heavier than 115. Energy overstates the importance of velocity. Momentum shows one reason why you'd want a big bullet, but it doesn't help sell the newest fast, small wonder-round, so you won't see it on the box or the ballistics chart.
 
Amish, the OP, made a bunch of claims in support of the 9mm which, when summarized, basically boil down to "it's small and cheap." That isn't an argument for effectiveness, it's an argument for economy. By that logic, carry a Walther P22.

It was only last year that I bought my first 9mm, and that was with some reluctance. It isn't exactly my favorite round. But I consider it adequate (barely) in stopping power, or I wouldn't carry it in my Beretta 92FS.

The availability of cheap ammunition is not much of a selling point. Yes, you can practice more with it, but shooting a lot of rounds rapid fire all day at the rate where ammunition expense becomes a decisive factor does not lead to improved target scores or defensive response, in my estimate.

Basically, it's a round that happens to be popular for reasons of historical accident, and a lot of very fine pistols are chambered in it. As a defensive carry cartridge, it is adequate but not superb.
 
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