Why do people hate the 9mm?

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The 45 and 40 still outperform the 9mm but that doesn't mean the 9mm wont be enough.

Test Events

Bare Gelatin
All rounds typically perform well in bare gelatin, which is the easiest of all test events.
Previous and current generations of hollow point rounds were and are designed to expand
to 1.5 times the original bullet diameter. Federal’s HST rounds were engineered to
expand well beyond twice the original diameter in bare gelatin.

Federal HST 45 ACP – 1.043”/.452” = 2.31 times larger than its original diameter
Federal HST 40 S&W – 0.945”/.40” = 2.36 times larger than its original diameter
Federal HST 9mm – 0.891”/.356” = 2.5 times larger than its original diameter

Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight

Federal HST 45 ACP... 230 gr... 12.75”... 1.043”... 100.96%
Winchester SXT 45 ACP... 230 gr... 12.5”... 0.795”... 100.61%
Remington GS 45 ACP... 185 gr... 14.0”... 0.730”... 100.38%

Federal HST 40 S&W...180 gr... 11.5”... 0.945”... 101.78%
Winchester SXT 40 S&W...180 gr... 13.5”...0.658”... 92.67%

Federal HST 9mm...147 gr...11.5”... 0.891”...101.5%
Federal HST 9mm...124 gr...11.75”...0.839”... 101.05%
Winchester SXT 9mm...127 gr...16.0”...0.718”...94.49%

Heavy Clothing
All bullets performed well in Heavy Clothing. Federal HST again demonstrated the
designed expansion characteristics and outperformed all tested rounds for expansion.

Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight

Federal HST 45 ACP 230 gr. 14.0” 0.850” 99.65%
Winchester SXT 45 ACP 230 gr. 12.5” 0.773” 101.26%
Remington GS 45 ACP 185 gr. 14.25” 0.704” 102.22%

Federal HST 40 S&W 180 gr. 13.0” 0.788” 101.56%
Winchester SXT 40 S&W 180 gr. 14.0” 0.757” 91.89%

Federal HST 9mm 147 gr. 13.75” 0.689” 102.38%
Federal HST 9mm 124 gr. 12.0” 0.709” 102.26%
Winchester SXT 9mm 127 gr. 13.5” 0.684” 97.48%

_____________________________________

Wallboard

Wallboard is a harder barrier to overcome. While Federal HST performed flawlessly,
Winchester SXT experienced over penetration, plugged bullets, and core jacket
separations.

Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight

Federal HST 45 ACP 230 gr. 11.75” 0.843” 100.35%
Winchester SXT 45 ACP 230 gr. 13.0” 0.75” 100.74%
Remington GS 45 ACP 185 gr. 15.25” 0.698” 98.92%
Federal HST 40 S&W 180 gr. 13.0” 0.786” 101.78%
Winchester SXT* 40 S&W 180 gr. 20.0” 0.475” 100.11%
Federal HST 9mm 147 gr. 13.0” 0.649” 100.54%
Federal HST 9mm 124 gr. 12.5” 0.713” 99.84%
Winchester SXT** 9mm 127 gr. 15.25” 0.430” 69.13%
*Bullet Plugged
**Core Jacket Separation

Plywood

Plywood is second only to glass in difficulty when measured in terms of bullet failures
versus expansion and penetration. Federal HST rounds performed as designed and
expanded at least 1.6 times their original diameter. Winchester and Remington both
experienced over penetrations with plugged, poorly expanded bullets.

Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight

Federal HST 45 ACP 230 gr. 13.25” 0.858” 101.61%
Winchester SXT* 45 ACP 230 gr. 29.75” 0.452” 99.65%
Remington GS 45 ACP 185 gr. 12.5” 0.679” 99.84%

Federal HST 40 S&W 180 gr. 12.5” 0.772” 100.33%
Winchester SXT* 40 S&W 180 gr. 21.5” 0.402” 99.72%

Federal HST 9mm 147 gr. 12.5” 0.594” 97.76%
Federal HST 9mm 124 gr. 12.5” 0.656” 102.34%
Winchester SXT 9mm 127 gr. 14.25” 0.671” 96.77%
Remington JHP* 9mm 115 gr. 26.25” 0.356” 99.65%

*Bullet Plugged

Steel

All bullets perform similarly when shot through steel. The hollow points are forced
closed and upon close inspection of the gelatin block you will discover steel discs that
have been cut out of the steel plate. Results of the steel testing are in the attached results
document.


Auto Glass

Auto Glass is the toughest and most difficult of all barrier tests. Federal’s new HST
performed amazingly for non-bonded technology. HST retained its core jacket integrity
3 out of 4 shots – 75%. Winchester SXT and Remington Golden Sabre bullets
experienced core jacket separations 100% of the time. It is important to note that in the
event of a core jacket separation, FBI Test Protocol measures only the single deepest
penetrating fragment of the bullet for expansion, retained weight, and penetration. Both
the core and the jacket were mounted separately on the board.

Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight

Federal HST 45 ACP 230 gr. 14.25” 0.649” 89.39%
Winchester SXT* 45 ACP 230 gr. 13.75” 0.546” 75.65%
Remington GS* 45 ACP 185 gr. 9.0” 0.511” 63.35%

Federal HST* 40 S&W 180 gr. 11.25” 0.495” 56.94%
Winchester SXT* 40 S&W 180 gr. 7.5” 0.582 67.83%

Federal HST 9mm 147 gr. 11.5” 0.474 81.7%
Federal HST 9mm 124 gr. 11.75” 0.513 82.58%
Winchester SXT* 9mm 127 gr. 11.5” 0.499” 59.29%

*Core Jacket Separation
 
Yes...shot placement is the most important thing...any argument otherwise is just plain silly.

I have killed quite a few deer with a 223...but thats more about proper bullet selection (we'll save that for another thread)

I don't really know why so many people don't like the 9mm, unless its because they simply don't know any better...believed what they read in a book, heard at the gun shop/range, or , heaven forbid, saw on a gun forum...

The 9mm is not the most efficient killer of animals thats well suited for CCW...I know that for a fact, ArmedBear seems to know it too....I think we figured it out the same way.

We killed things with different rounds and performed an "autopsy" because we wanted to see for ourselves...some people are more interested in ballistics than others I guess but one thing rings clear...ArmedBear is on the other side of the country yet our results were the same...

The 45acp is a more efficient killer...the 9mm will kill, just not as quick.
 
Ridgerunner, Here's an article on momentum, energy, and velocity. Pretty much proves you right

http://terra.gg.utah.edu/guns/energy.pdf

Quote:
And there is very little "real" difference between a 40 and a 45...the only edge the 45 has is its momentum.
The only edge the .40 has is higher capacity magazines, and lighter, smaller easier to carry frames.
Click to expand...

I don't think the link really "proves" anything except that the TC Contender in .375 H&H you've been thinking about getting will WASTE any caliber we've been discussing. Only one shot, though, so make it a good one.
 
Ridgerunner, I wasn't suggesting that bullet selection does change momentum. I was only pointing out what can be done with the 147-grain 9mm.

Jpwilly, you're right, I wasn't suggesting that the 9mm HST performs better than the other caliber HST rounds. I was using it to illustrate my belief that a round typically known for over-penetration can be turned into an excellent SD round by designing it to open up more. I do believe it is worth noting though that the 9mm HST are achieving penetration and expansion results that are typical of what other brands do with their .40 or .45 ammo. Presumably if that level of performance was acceptable with the .40 or .45, it would also be acceptable with the 9mm. That isn't to diminish what is being done with the .40 or .45 HST rounds, that stuff is very impressive and has raised the bar in my book.

Also, I am not suggesting a single 9mm round is more devastating than a single .45 round, nor would I ever. I think people rely too much on a "One-shot stop" mentality. In a fight, I plan to continue firing until the threat is neutralized. I believe that is where the 9mm makes up its ground as an equally-good defensive caliber. It is an easier caliber to fire quickly and accurately. Tons of people will argue with that, but .45 simply recoils harder (that whole momentum thing), and heavier recoil slows you down. You can look to IPSC and IDPA for examples, primarily power factor classifications to keep things fair.

If I only had one round, yes, I'd like to be .45 if nothing bigger was around. With a full magazine though, I'd be just as happy with a 9mm. That's my $0.02.
 
Why do people hate the 9mm?

Same reason that others dislike .45, .40, .357 and any of the other calibers: Different preferences based upon differing opinions, experiences and needs. Ain't it great that we have so many choices that we can afford to be picky?

:)
 
I don't like it because it replaced the .45 ACP as our military round back in the 1980s. And, the Beretta M9 (92F-FS) replaced the Colt M1911.
 
I don't "hate" it, but think about it. There are many other's that out-perform the 9mm. Moreover, there are many classic, wonderful designs that handle rounds that out-perform the 9mm as well. For some reason, the 9mm is kind of stuck with the notion of it being limited to polymer framed, relatively unattractive pistols.

People also, often relate it to the incredibly ineffective military round. I guess it's just a combination of things.

Keep in mind that I'm just answering the original question. I am not taking these thoughts on as my own...so don't attack me.
 
I believe the fact that the .45 vs 9mm debate has been going on for about 100 years now shows that they are both closely matched. Logically one would have outlasted the other if one was significantly better.

Being a tightwad, if I couldn't enjoy both I would choose the cheaper one.
 
Wild Bill

Didn't Wild Bill Hickok use .36 caliber revolvers? Thats about equivalent to a 9mm and he did alright.
 
I hate it because it's cheap, accurate, abundant, my mags hold 19 rounds, soft recoil, and.....my resident mall ninja told me it wasn't cool.
 
I don't like the 9mm because the high pressures split cases after about 10 times reloading them, whereas 45s can last almost forever!
I really think the 9 is a fine round. I would trust it completely with my life. I also like looking at the huge bore and feeling the weight of the bullet. The whole hair on the chest thing.
I do prefer the 45.

I think its funny how some people say the 9mm over penetrates, other people say it under penetrates, yadda yadda. I looked at the ratings for bullet proof vests once- a 45 JHP is one of the easiest rounds to stop, a 45 FMJ is slightly harder, but much easier than a 9mm JHP, and a 9mm FMJ is one of the hardest rounds to stop.
 
After about 10 times reloading them?? I'm not into reloading yet, but I thought 2-3 time was max. Am I wrong?
 
I own 9mm .45 ACP and .357 magnum handguns. My favorite caliber is the 9mm because it is inexpensive compared to the other two calibers I own and ultimately I shoot my 9mm pistols more. Because I shoot my 9mm pistols more, I am more accurate with them. Eventually I'll train more with the other calibers but for now my 9mm caliber pistols are my go to firearms for SD/HD/SHTF.
 
I've reloaded my cases probably around 10 times, and last time we went out a case split, and the primer pockets are getting a little loose. My 45 cases are still good to go. As long as the cases are in decent shape, I'll keep throwing lead in them.
 
I think the 9MM is disliked more here than elsewhere is because it's not American, so to speak. It kind of sounds a little sterile to say, "nine millimeter," as compared to saying something like "thirty eight super" or "fourty four special."

I'm not knocking it as a cartridge; I own one. I don't know; it just seems to lack some flavor.

Maybe some people don't want one simply because so many do. I resisted for a long, long time until I saw my Star. That thing is one heinous gun. Sigh....
 
I don't hate the 9mm I just prefer the .45. I do like to say the 9mm is A good round for teaching women and children. Just because many 9mm lovers are thin skinned leading to long threads like this one.:neener:
 
I for one love the 9mm. It shoots well, is low recoil, and a full size pistol can hold an awful lot of them. I also love the 45. I think for some folks the caliber wars are a lot like picking a football team.
 
After about 10 times reloading them?? I'm not into reloading yet, but I thought 2-3 time was max. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Depends. If you are loading at or near max SAAMI pressures, then you may get less than 5 times out of your brass. Keep the pressures low (at minimum or slightly over) and case life can be extended greatly.

How much the gun beats up the brass is a factor too. Glock .40s are known for wearing out .40 brass faster than other .40 hanguns, probably due to the partially unsupported chamber.

Always inpsect your brass before reloading, always!
 
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