Short sticks

[Owen Sparks]

What does a 1" micarta rod weigh per foot?

 

[AStone]

I'd eventually like a phenolic (when the budget allows) and one or more micarta.

Did I forget to mention that I collect sticks like some collect guns?

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Oak or Hickory work will as long as you get them in 7/8 or up. I going to find some Hornbeam.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Anyone have any experience with blackjack oak? It is more flexable than other varieties. my experience with red oak has been dissapointing as it tends to break with the grain. I have plenty of blackjack on my property.

 

[Dirty Bob]

Re the short stick and charging opponent: the short stick held in two hands can also be used for a two-hand horizontal strike, in which the middle of the stick hits the charging opponent. The defender can get his full weight behind the strike. Applied to the face/neck, it could be fatal. I have seen this one used, and it was very effective.

The ready position that's been described doesn't look like much to someone without knowledge of sticks, and a "little" stick may not look very effective to a big guy.

Although Bruce Tegner (1929–1985) is not in vogue, his stick book (Stick Fighting: Self-Defense) was actually pretty darned good.

For one (brief) treatise on short stick, I recommend John Styers' Cold Steel. It can probably be obtained via interlibrary loan, with the help of your local librarian.

It has a single chapter on the stick, but it's very good. He focused on a 22-inch stick and emphasized close quarters. The ready position is left foot forward, with the stick in the right, and with only a few inches protruding from the thumb side of the hand. At ready the r. hand is relaxed and the stick hangs down, not looking "ready" at all. The method used hard, driving punches with the short end of the stick, as well as two-hand smashes with the middle of the stick.

Styers also showed the method for a stick choke from behind. This is a lethal technique for combat use, not a self-defense technique. He also showed some strikes with the stick in a more conventional grip.

The short stick is every bit as effective as others have stated, if the user knows what s/he is doing. Like any other defensive tool, the wielder is more important than the instrument.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

 

[AStone]

Interesting technique, Bob - that two handed 'take down' defense.
As a smaller person, I'm not interested in grappling with a large attacker.

I've practiced strikes against that, but the two-handed version sounds reasonable.

In a way, it's a modification of this basic technique by Bill Fairbairn; instead of striking up, one strikes down.

 

[Owen Sparks]

The reason I prefer a medium or arm length stick (about 28 inches) is that it allows you a striking range outside an opponants reach, even if he has a knife. Rather than close the distiance where I have to grapple and use two hand thrusting techniques, I prefer to sidestep and circle the opponant and make him play my game. I think of myself as a bull fighter rather than the bull. As long as I can keep the bad guy out on the end of my stick there is really nothing he can do. You only have to maintain this distance a few seconds, just long enough to deliver a few solid strikes. Dirty Bob is right, once the opponant closes the sistance circular strikes are out and you have to use various thrusting techniques that are dependant on the weight of your body behind the stick but if you will be alert you may never have to resort to close range stick fighting.

 

[sm]

Nem,
Good thread, and I appreciate all the great replies.

Being the Southern Boy I am, I am partial to a short, hickory axe handle. Just come up with mentors passing forward as they did.
Proven.

 

[AStone]

Good to see you here, SM. Thanks for dropping by. Glad you're finding value here.

And yeah, having grown up in Me'omphis, I can relate.

 

[Dirty Bob]

Nematocyst: The two-handed "bar thrust" was used against a guy with a practice knife (me) in the ice-pick grip for a downward stab. I screamed and leaped at the student. I had done this in class several times before. This usually resulted in a deer-in-the-headlights gaze and maybe a panicked attempt to back straight up -- with a result of a "fatality" for the student. This young man, however, kept his head and did a horizontal, two-handed block ... to my nose. It stopped me COLD. Blood went everywhere, but no lasting harm was done. It was a great learning experience for all concerned.

There are those out there who think the stick is useless in close. I hope they never have to test their ideas against a stick fighter who has trained for close quarters.

Folks, this thread has been a real joy to read, and the posts have been excellent. Thank you!

sm: I always enjoy your posts and hope you have more to share on this subject.

All my best,
Dirty Bob

 

[AStone]

Bob, you added nicely to the quality of posts here
with your narrative of the "bar thrust". Thanks.

...a stick fighter who has trained for close quarters.

Funny you write that. I vacillate every night at bed time about
which stick to put under my pillow: the 16" or the 18".

The 16" is better in close quarters, but the 18" just feels more right.

Of course, this from a man whose revolvers are still in storage on the west coast.
(Don't ask, please. It's a long, hard, heart-breaking story I'd rather forget.)

But I feel totally safe with my sticks.

I'm sure SM can add some stories, too, if he should choose to.

 

[hso]

Horizontal two hand stick thrust is taught to LEOs and COs as well as crowd control. My ASP instructor taught it to us and my first escrima instructor taught some additional horizontal techniques (of course he was a CO also).

 

[AStone]

What's a 'CO'?

 

[ArfinGreebly]

CO

Corrections Officer.

 

[hso]

Correct, officer.

My favorite teacher was a CO that worked extraction in Max. He'd made a life long study of violent criminals and the ways of hurting/killing.

 

[AStone]

Ah.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

CO and Excons who have gone straight are great vaults of knowledge sometimes.
I learned what the man called Prison yard knife or shive fighting in College from a Excon who need tutoring in US History. IMO we both got a good trade out of the deal. He is a Lawyer today and what he taught me got me out of a jam one time.

Another point for me is I prefer a rounded end on my short sticks aka like a broom or mop handle. It consentrates the energy to a smaller area.

 

[AStone]

I prefer a rounded end on my short sticks aka like a broom or mop handle. It consentrates the energy to a smaller area.

Interesting point... so to speak. That's an angle <sorry; couldn't resist> we haven't talked about yet.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Ever think of this?

http://www.museumreplicas.com/p-553-flat-ended-butt-cap.aspx

Could be more durable that a wooden end.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I like a minimal ball handle on my canes. The traditional crook or derby handle is not very practical for thrusting. I also like a handle that is reasonably light so that the balance point of the cane is not thrown too far off the center. That way it will swing and handle the same no matter which end you hold it by. A solid metal ball will shift the center of gravity so far towards the rear that it will handle like a club if you have to grab it by the wrong end.

For a short stick a straight rod with no taper will balance perfectly. Another advantage is that things like rods, dowels, pipes and tubes are such common everyday shapes that it will not look like a weapon if you happen to have one in your car or nearby at work. Sometimes it is easier to disguise a weapon than to conceal it.

 

[AStone]

I gotta agree with Owen, PBW. Those caps look interesting, but where as my stick never gets a second look, even from police (so far at least), I think adding something like that would garner a second look. And I like the symmetry of a plain stick: I want to use it from either end and have it feel the same.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Ever think of this?

http://www.museumreplicas.com/p-553-flat-ended-butt-cap.aspx

Could be more durable that a wooden end.

It would cause you to fall on hard surfaces like concrete , tile floors etc. For a Farm cane only it would be alright.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Another point for me is I prefer a rounded end on my short sticks aka like a broom or mop handle. It consentrates the energy to a smaller area.

Very true. I have a pair of short hickory escrima sticks like this. On the other hand, with a squared end, you can get a tearing/cutting effect with strikes.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Your correct so the next one I make will be rounded on 1 end and squared on the other.

 

[hso]

P.B.Walsh,

The objective is to carry a useful self defense tool without drawing attention. Putting such caps on a stick, rod, cane or staff would draw attention to it that no one wants.