Shotgun or Carbine?

[FMJMIKE]

I won't go into specifics but the location was western NC about 6 years ago. The situation was 6-8 drunk rednecks looking for trouble. The answer was a carbine. I do not believe a shotgun would have been any comfort in the situation I was in. Choose a shotgun if you wish............:banghead:

 

[Thatguy686]

pps43: just curious what makes you think a soft point .223 round has less penetration then effective shotgun loads?

in my mind buckshot is the most effective in a defensive situation and would penetrate much less than a soft point .223

also you said its easier to operate one handed? where does this come from? a semi auto shotgun all you do is pull the trigger same as a carbine but have you ever tried to reload an ar15 magazines one handed and i mean putting rounds in the mag and then putting it in the gun? shotgun is much easier to reload and to be honest faster because you can reload while shooting assuming you have practiced

but back to the op's subject i would go with a shotgun for the simple reason that you can load (which i do) 2 rounds of buckshot for a fast reaction and still hit what your pointing in the general direction of and then have slugs the rest of the way so if you have to shoot at someone 2-3 times in your house then have to chase them outside to stop them from stealing your car there are quite a few 12ga rounds that can immobilize a v8 engine in 1-2shots and not have to reload

should you have to reload you can reload in between shots without having to take out your source of ammo (carbines you do) also you can decide between buckshot or slugs for the next shot just by sliding whatever you want in the magazine while cycling the gun and never miss a beat i personally can shoot 18 rounds through a shotgun without running dry and the reason it stops at 18 is because of being able to carry loose rounds

advantages of a carbine if you have preloaded magazines quicker reload more rounds per reload and longer distances which arent too necessary in a defense situation

disadvantages of a carbine: extreme penetration with everyround if you where to panic and dump 30 rounds they will go through walls and keep going and theres nothing you can do about it as oppose to being able to use buck shot

to the op: when you say you would take a pistol caliber carbine over a shotgun are you joking?

pistol caliber carbine is a lose lose short distances and to be honest most pistol cal carbines can be outshot distance wise by a decent slug like hornady and a slug has much more energy when it gets there

i would choose a pistol before a pistol caliber carbine and i would take a rifle caliber carbine if i was on the offensive but it would have to be .308 as i want to be able to shoot as far as possible without having to get to close and would have a qd scope with 18+ magnification and iron sights

 

[CZguy]

I won't go into specifics but the location was western NC about 6 years ago. The situation was 6-8 drunk rednecks looking for trouble. The answer was a carbine. I do not believe a shotgun would have been any comfort in the situation I was in. Choose a shotgun if you wish............

Well, since my "was 6-8 drunk rednecks looking for trouble" are in-laws, I guess I'll stick with the shotgun.

 

[Warp]

you can load (which i do) 2 rounds of buckshot for a fast reaction and still hit what your pointing in the general direction of

Spray and pray is not the answer, shotgun or not.

so if you have to shoot at someone 2-3 times in your house then have to chase them outside to stop them from stealing your car there are quite a few 12ga rounds that can immobilize a v8 engine in 1-2shots and not have to reload

Wait wait wait...you are selecting your home defense long gun and it's loadout based upon a situation where you have to chase a home invader outside and take out your own vehicle's engine block?

Are you serious??

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Not really. Follow up shots will be considerably slower, capacity is considerably less, range probably considerably less as well.

Not that a 12 gauge slug gun isn't likely to stop whoever you shoot with it

It's shootability has nothing to do with it's definition.

a longarm similar to but shorter than a rifle or musket. Many carbines are shortened versions of full rifles, firing the same ammunition at a lower velocity due to a shorter barrel length.

This is the defintion of a Carbine, like I said, its like a big bore carbine.

Originally Posted by Thatguy686
you can load (which i do) 2 rounds of buckshot for a fast reaction and still hit what your pointing in the general direction of

You've never actually patterned a shotgun with buckshot have you. At 15 yards, the pattern is still within a man's chest and thats with a Cylinder Bore and a 21" barrel.

 

[Weevil]

Well yeah a carbine would probably be best against a platoon of attackers.


However most of us are discussing a typical HD situation which "normally" doesn't involve a death-squad of a half-dozen or more drunken rednecks.



So Yeah I "wish" to "choose" a shotgun for my particular HD needs.


Just curious but why would the carbine be so much more effective if they weren't wearing body-armor?

I find it hard to imagine that after you drop a couple of them the rest of them will wade through a hail of buckshot and clamber over the dead bodies of their comrades just to get you.

Man those guys must have really had a grudge againt you.

 

[DAP90]

also you said its easier to operate one handed? where does this come from?

I believe he meant shoot one handed – say if one of your hands gets injured or something. I wouldn’t want to try and shoot a 12 ga loaded with slugs or buckshot one handed. An AR in 223 would be much more controllable.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I believe he meant shoot one handed – say if one of your hands gets injured or something. I wouldn’t want to try and shoot a 12 ga loaded with slugs or buckshot one handed. An AR in 223 would be much more controllable.

There are instructors that teach using an AR 15 with one hand, I may try shooting my shotgun one handed with slugs next time I go to the range.

 

[Nuclear]

If someone is wearing body armor and you shoot them with a shotgun, assuming the impact to the body isn't enough to deter them from further aggression, the second shot should be to the head, groin or leg. That will put them down for a while, I would think.

 

[JohnBiltz]

I think for most people either will work just fine and a shotgun costs a lot less. I don't think capacity matters much. In a HD situation I don't think you will survive a situation that requires you to empty a 5 shot shotgun, saying that, I carry another 5 rounds on the stock. I have both a carbine and a shotgun, the shotgun is what I keep out. I've rationalized to switch to the carbine but my gut keeps telling me a shotgun stops things at close range where that really matters. I don't shoot my shotgun much and I don't get much pleasure when I do. Which is the main reason I think I should retire it. I also think a lot of the reasons cops like to carry carbines is that they look cool.

 

[gym]

I was about to purchase a 930spx 4 days ago. I was aat Dicks in Melbourne, had the 4473 filled out and approved picked out those new winchester slug/shot shells that are the newest hot rounf etc. We had been talking for a while bout bad backs, mine is extremlly bad, very few disks left. Basically bone rubbing on bone, just had an mri last week. So the manager walked up to me and asked me for a minute of my time, I said sure. He said I have that gun, and I sooy 3 gun and competition with it. I am selling it tomorrow at the show in Ocala, "i believe that is where it was". He said that gun will put you in the hospital if your back is half as bad as it sounds. Now this is the manager killing a sale.
He said plas don't get this gun, only a gas gun will work for your situation.
I knew they were much more than I wanted to spend, he had a Baretta for like 1,500 dollars. Just get an AR in 9mm was his advice, he said it was his favorite ar, he had several. I want a Rock River in 223. But that was that, he ended the sale. I walked out relieved, that someone stepped up and told the truth. My salseman was going to let me walk out with it, they work on commission I believe. So there we havethe answer, bad back, "no shotgun". I am looking for a carbine now.Also he said that ammo I was gettng was twice as bad as regular shot. it kicks like a mul, it's a wall breaker.

 

[Mike1234567]

gym... what about a semi-auto .410? Like a Saiga, maybe?

 

[Owen Sparks]

There is one real advantage that the shotgun has over the typical .223 carbine at indoor distances is raw stopping power. There is a simple way around this that is not usually available to commoners and that is the short full-auto burst. Three to five shots to the body in a fraction of a second will put the carbine on par with the 12 gauge at across the room distance.

Unfortunately we live in a country that does not allow citizens to possess modern weaponry as used by practically every army in the World.

 

[bimmerland]

I was told by many LEO's that any intruder might think twice when they here a shotgun racking. Since I am legally bound to protect what comes thru the door without my permission I feel my Mossy will do the job by pointing in the general direction of the intruder.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I feel my Mossy will do the job by pointing in the general direction of the intruder.

Never patterned your Mossberg with Buckshot I see.

 

[mortablunt]

A pistol caliber carbine is a good choice. A hi point in 45 ACP should be able to meet pretty much any sort of defensive need.

 

[Inebriated]

You've never actually patterned a shotgun with buckshot have you. At 15 yards, the pattern is still within a man's chest and thats with a Cylinder Bore and a 21" barrel.

That's regular buckshot, too. With the Federal FliteControl wad, you're barely starting to open up at 15 yards. About a 6" pattern out of my 870 with an 18.5" barrel.

And to whoever mentioned the sound of a racking shotgun... Please don't put any faith in it's ability to stop a home invasion. It'll just let them know where you are.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

pps43: just curious what makes you think a soft point .223 round has less penetration then effective shotgun loads?

in my mind buckshot is the most effective in a defensive situation and would penetrate much less than a soft point .223

12ga Remington Express 2.75" 00 Buck penetrated 16+" in bare ballistics gel. Only one pellet was recovered, so apparently most exited the gel block even after 16".

12ga Federal 2.75" #4 buckshot penetrated between 10"-16" (3 pellets exited)

For comparison, the same website shows 55gr M193 FMJ ammo penetrating 14.8" of bare gel.

Federal .223 55gr SP (T223A) penetrated 7.75" of bare gel in this test (less than the least penetrating pellet in the #4 buck above); and even the Federal 64gr SP (T223L) only penetrated 12.00" (same link as above).

 

[mavracer]

And to whoever mentioned the sound of a racking shotgun... Please don't put any faith in it's ability to stop a home invasion. It'll just let them know where you are.

I don't put any faith in the stopping power of the sound of buckshot being chambered, that's why it's the sound of buckshot being chambered.
But if they do decide to leave I'm very ok with that. Also since I'm a big fan of movement that sound will only serve to let them know where I was.

 

[HammerheadSSN663]

Carbine for country

Shotgun for city/suburbia = mob control intimidation factor. 99% of the populace thinks a shotgun can kill and entire filled football stadium with one shot so the majority standing behind the lead thugs will back off quick and subsequently the lead thugs will follow suit.

fyi - just ordered a new Mossy 590A1 LE with speedstock to back up the AR