Shotgun or Carbine?

[amprecon]

Considering the place of shotguns for various situations, I understand the versatility, but the range is quite limited.

If I had the choice between a shotgun or carbine for defensive situations necessitating the use of a long gun, from either the two-legged or four-legged varieties, I'd almost always choose the carbine. The range and accuracy is just so much more than what you would get from a shotgun. I know range and accuracy with slugs is better than with buckshot, but accuracy still isn't up to par with that of most carbines.

By carbines I'm talking about short barreled rifles, AK's, M1 Carbine's, AR's, SKS's, etc., etc.. I think I'd even choose a pistol calibered carbine over a shotgun if it came down to it. I just seem to prefer that single accurate rifled bullet over the smoothbore.

I guess for some people the shotgun has a higher place in their list than other's, but for me, it'd be next to last thing I'd grab over my pistol.

It just seems that shotguns with buckshot have even less range than your standard size service pistol, although it may be easier to hit with, especially during high stress situations.

Just curious about all of your thoughts regarding the selection of a shotgun for most defensive situations needing a longarm.

 

[Warp]

A shotgun is easily effective within the distances of 99.99% of justifiable defensive shots, IMO.

 

[sm]

Variables dictate

Setting aside environment, let me address the individual(s) that might have to employ a weapon to handle a situation.

Some folks that used to be able to handle recoil, no longer can due to age, injury, arthritis and other factors. So many folks that used to use shotguns, or even handguns, have found a "carbine" works best for them. Be this a Beretta Storm in 9mm, or AR, or lever action in .357 for instance.

Oh I like shotguns, and folks that know me, know I have assisted a lot of folks with shotguns for all sorts of uses including defensive uses.

Still my experiences dealing with Elderly, Veterans, Battered women, abused kids and such...

The individual MUST try a variety of guns to see what fits them best, after taking in the consideration of environment and assessing threats.

Another reality, and one I have been called down on is, sometimes a rifle in .22 rim-fire works best. Especially with No Recoil orders from Doctor/Surgeon/Physical Therapist.

Neck and back surgery, detached retina, and other medical reasons do limit and therefore dictate what one should use.

Steve

 

[Panzercat]

I've seen slug shots accurate out to 400 yards, tho I'll be the first to admit those shots are probably easier with a carbine than a shotty. "Defensive" pretty much limits any engagement envelope we speak of. A shotgun is king at minute of hallway distances. Even extending that out to 50 yards worth of defensive still makes it a formidable piece, as Warp mentions.

If you went beyond just defensive concerns, however, my biggest issue would be the weight of the weapon and its ammunition. Shotgun crap gets heavy and if I had to lug a weapon any distance, it wouldn't be my first choice.

If it's just the house interior worth of defensive, shotgun all day every day. If I had to defend a larger area, maybe then I start looking for a carbine.

 

[ChCx2744]

I enjoy shooting shotguns more, but I feel as though a carbine or other popular semi-auto rifle serves my needs better than a shotgun would. Shotguns have their place, but carbines are more versatile IMO.

 

[doc2rn]

For a do everything gun its gonna be my Ruger 77/22 MkII in .22 WMR, so carbine would get my vote. However as has been said, in home defense gettin (9) pieces of .32 cal ball on target simultaneously has a much greater impact. SO it really depends on the situation.

 

[camar]

Put a 24 inch rifled barrel on a 12ga. and use slugs you have a .50cal. The same barrel can accurately fire buck shot.

 

[Sav .250]

When was the last time you checked on the new types of 12 ga shotgun ammo?

A 12 ga shotgun is a very formidable weapon. Especially with the ammo that is available. The "defensive situations" you refer to would be no
challenge for a 12 ga.

 

[RX-178]

For defensive situations in general, I'm going to agree with the OP, in that a carbine is going to be a more versatile defensive weapon, effective at just about any distance you could possibly be defending yourself at, up to and including defending yourself from a bad guy who also has a long gun.

The thing is though, at the vast majority of defensive shooting distances, the shotgun has no practical accuracy disadvantage versus the carbine, and has much more stopping power (although chances are the carbine will stop the threat PDQ also).

The major factor here is... I could get a 12 gauge pump shotgun for about $200. I'd have to spend at least $500+ to get a carbine that I'd trust for defensive purposes.

 

[buck460XVR]

Considering the place of shotguns for various situations, I understand the versatility, but the range is quite limited.

If I had the choice between a shotgun or carbine for defensive situations I'd almost always choose the carbine.

Just curious about all of your thoughts regarding the selection of a shotgun for most defensive situations needing a longarm.

In the civilian world, there is little need for a long range "defensive" firearm. In the real world, outside of fantasy SHTF situations, there is little need for a long range "defensive" firearm. In a situation of a "mad as 'ell" grizzly, a shottie with slugs will generally work better than a small caliber carbine.


......nuff said.

 

[Plan2Live]

Well, the military thought enough of the shotgun to deploy the AA-12. Would that be considered offensive or defensive distance? But of course they also get to use those neat little 12 guage grenades that you and I don't have access to.

 

[M2 Carbine]

While I have 4 loaded shotguns around the house my primary "go to" gun is a .223 AR "carbine".

While the shotgun is devastating close up, under about 20 yards, there is too much stray lead flying around and missing the target at any distance.

My immediate "home defense" covers about 50 yards. So spraying the neighborhood with buckshot or shotgun slugs is a bad idea.

So I'd rather use a gun that I can control where the bullets/shot is going to hit.
The little AR is good for all distances.

 

[rule303]

For "defensive" situations, the shotgun is far superior. If your definition of "defensive" means making a preemptive strike at the bad guys/zombie herd from seveal hundred meters, then by all means go with the carbine. But seriously, any gun that you are comfortable with may be the best choice for you.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I concider a shotgun an indoor weapon.

I would grab an AR if for some reason I had to go outside during a riot or time of civil unrest.

 

[PPS43]

Carbine

Carbine. Rationale:

• Lower recoil, faster follow-up shots
• Soft-point .223 penetrates less than effective shotgun loads
• Easier to operate one-handed
• Faster reload than pump-action, more reliable than semiauto shotguns (especially when shooting from unusual positions)
  
  
  
  

 

[threefeathers]

Both of them are simply rescue tools that should be in every toolbox.

 

[ATBackPackin]

Whichever I can get to first.

 

[amprecon]

Besides defensive situations up close & personal where most would be armed with a handgun anyway, when you go outdoors the distances where you are able to identify a threat can be much greater than 7 to 40 feet.

To see a pack of wild dogs or a bear or other dangerous critter coming your way, 100 yards away will seem like feet when their bearing down on you full kilter. I don't want to wait until they're "within range" to begin firing. Say a pack of dogs or other wild animal is attacking one of your pets at the end of your property, you don't want to shoot at them with buckshot or even a slug. Granted you'll be hard pressed to pick out anything in a frenzied dog fight to make a good shot with any firearm, but you sure don't want to spray the entire area with lead shot or take your chances with a slug out of your smoothbore.

Say your situation requires you to use a slug and your shotgun is loaded with buck, you have to unload your buck, find your slugs and load them. Say you're needing buckshot and your loaded with slugs, unload the slugs and load the buck. With a carbine, your ammo is always the same, not an issue.

The farther away I can determine if a situation is a threat, the sooner I can engage it, I could engage it more accurately with a carbine.

Trekking through dense foliage in critter country, where you can only see yards in most in every direction, I would consider a buckshot loaded shotgun superior. Awakened from a dead sleep by an intruder in your house in the middle of the night, I would consider a buckshot loaded shotgun. Hordes of mindless rioters burning down businesses and beating people with bricks or whatever, if it were going on in front of my house, I could see a buckshot loaded shotgun being very useful and intimidating.

But say a farmer or rancher working their land, they see a coyote or other unwanted critter stalking their livestock, there will be many instances where a shotgun just won't reach out there. Sure, shotguns nowadays can be outfitted with rifled slug barrels and sights and scopes and be quite accurate, but your still dealing with a heavier weapon and increased recoil.

The shotgun has its place, no question, but for most situations where a long gun is required, namely outdoors, I just think a carbine is more precise, has less recoil and thus can be more effective and useful.

And when I say carbine that would include any action, not necessarily semi-automatics, pump action, lever action, even bolt actions could be classified as carbines, given their overall length and barrels are shorter than full length rifles.

Just my thoughts on shotguns vs. carbines. I by no means disparage the shotgun, it has a long and distinguished place in American and probably human history. I own one and would never part with it and it definitely fills a niche in my collection.

 

[captain awesome]

Almost all scenerios I could find myself in, a shotgun would be a far better choice. I don't imagine I will have to defend myself from a hundred yards away

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I'm a shotgunner, both "tactical" style and trap shooting. I definatly pick a shotgun.

Say your situation requires you to use a slug and your shotgun is loaded with buck, you have to unload your buck, find your slugs and load them. Say you're needing buckshot and your loaded with slugs, unload the slugs and load the buck. With a carbine, your ammo is always the same, not an issue.

I keep mine loaded with Slugs, can't imagine a situation where I would need Buck over slugs.

Faster reload than pump-action, more reliable than semiauto shotguns (especially when shooting from unusual positions)

My 1100 hasn't jammed yet, neither have alot of them. Reliability is a moot point in this discussion. I don't know what unusual positions you are talking about that a carbine will work and a shotgun won't.

 

[Zach S]

I use a carbine. Its shorter and lighter, therefore easier to maneuver, has higher capacity for fewer reloads, which are faster, and lighter recoil which results in quicker followups. In my area I don't worry about four-legged critters larger than the average man - but have the shotgun, which would be useful for such an occasion, unlike my 5.56 AR.

Put a 24 inch rifled barrel on a 12ga. and use slugs you have a .50cal.

.729 actually...

 

[kozak6]

A shotgun is more practical.

Although it depends on many factors, the effective range of buckshot is maybe 25-50 meters. Although it varies as well, a slug increases the range to maybe 100 meters.

Most defensive shootings take place at hallway distance or closer, so the extra range a carbine provides is irrelevant. Bad guys shooting at you from hundreds of yards away isn't a realistic situation.

A faster reload doesn't really matter since the 7-9 magazine capacity of a shotgun should be entirely adequate. If you are in an (unrealistic) situation where you need more capacity, I don't know if a larger magazine or faster reload is really going to help. Also, it can be argued that a shotgun with a tube magazine can be continuously topped off, although it's also a silly argument.

Lower recoil is a fair reason to choose a carbine.

Quote:
Put a 24 inch rifled barrel on a 12ga. and use slugs you have a .50cal.
.729 actually...

Unless you use sabots, although they aren't generally recommended for self defense.

 

[BHP FAN]

Shotgun. While I DO like carbines, I'd rather not take out one of the neighbor's kids due to an over penetrating .223 exiting a bad guy's cranium. It's extremely bad karma.

 

[Erik M]

I can see the utility of a good lever action 30-30, and it has been discussed here before. I still have my old Mossberg as my standby house gun.

 

[sig220mw]

In the house, a shotgun accompanied by a 45 acp if I have it out of the safe. The shotgun is a sawed off 12 gauge double and is readily available in the closet. If the safe is open, which it usually is when I am home and I would feel the need to go outside in a dangerous situation, I would likely opt for my sks along with the 45 again.