longeyes said:Why is “illegal” in quotes?
longeyes said:And that was a different America: Less welfare state, far fewer illegal immigrants.
He wouldn't be deported, but sent to prison instead.Fletchette: Said illegal immigrant is *doubley* deported?
Valid point. Though your head-knocky guy implies you think I'm actually proposing this. I'm simply discussing the what-ifs. Fletchette implied that our only option would be to *doubly* deport him. That's not true. Along those lines, our punishment options need not be limited to prison.Gordon Fink: So we can spend even more money on him. :banghead:
Possession of a firearm by an illegal alien is a crime under 922g. Voting in US elections is also a crime for illegal aliens: want to debate that?
Destructo6 said:Possession of a firearm by an illegal alien is a crime under 922g. Voting in US elections is also a crime for illegal aliens: want to debate that?
If you violate this order (922g), you may be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor punishable by up to 11 months, 29 days in jail and/or a fine of up to $2,500.00.
Voting is not a natural right because government and nations are not natural states of being. The right to vote exists only within the contruct of a nation.
The right to possess arms is a natural and universal right that exists outside the construct of a nation.
But maybe not within the construct of our nation. The RKBA may apply to him, but the 2nd might not. The 2nd and the RKBA aren't the same thing, though obviously related.Fletchette: An illegal immigrant has the natural and universal right to possess arms outside the construct of his nation.
But maybe not within the construct of our nation. The RKBA may apply to him, but the 2nd might not. The 2nd and the RKBA aren't the same thing, though obviously related.
Also, it is reasonable to say that a sovereign nation has the rightful power to disarm an invading group. Thus my still unanswered question: Should we treat illegal aliens as part of an invading group (and disarm them) or as individuals (and respect their RKBA)?
My point is that his universal RKBA might not be protected within the construct of our nation -- he may not be protected by the 2nd. There is no case law on whether the 2nd applies to non-citizens. It's a debatable point (see the first few pages of this thread).Fletchette: Non sequitur. An illegal immigrant must be both within our country and outside of his country by definition.
Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution gives Congress the power to "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions". Reacting to an invasion does not require a declaration of war -- that's covered in a separate part of Section 8.Fletchette: If we view an illegal immigrant as part of a group, conspiring to invade the U.S. and do us harm, then we need to officially recognize that. The Constitution provides for this official recognition: a Declaration of War. If we are indeed in a state of war, then we can capture and disarm these invaders. But we must legally recognize them as invaders first.
Even if you got rid of all the gun laws effecting citizens, you still could bar illegals from having guns.
Yes, a gun seller would have no way -- nor duty -- to tell if the person were an illegal. But the illegal could be subject to a greater penalty if found to have a gun. It would be a law against possession, not against transfer.
I'm not saying that's would be a good (or effective) law -- I'm simply explaining how you could bar illegals from owning guns without requiring all of us to subject ourselves to all the gun laws we love to hate.
I don’t consider immigration to be a crime. All other things being equal, it harms no one. I am also disinclined to sacrifice my rights just so that you don’t have to put up with people who may look and sound funny.
These folks might have disagreed with you, especially on that last bit.
That's why I wrote, "I'm not saying that would be a good (or effective) law"crazed_ss: You cant be serious.
Since when have passing more gun laws stopped people from obtaining guns?