Sighted in my Traditions Deerhunter cap lock yesterday. All went well using 70 grs. of FFG with .490" ball and .015" prelubed patch. I recovered the shot patches and found one mostly intact while the rest were just wads of thread more or less. So what did I do wrong here ? Bore was swabbed after every two shots. Still new to all this but I know the patches shouldn't be blowing apart after firing. Any advice ? -Thanks
Shredded patches after firing ?
- Thread starter kyron4
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Yes to all three.
Getting 2 1/2" to 3" groups at 50 yards with open sights and old eyes. New rifle, only has had about 15 PLB shot through it, so nice clean bore. Patched balls load smoothly.
I tend to be a bit of an over thinker so you might be on to something.
Getting 2 1/2" to 3" groups at 50 yards with open sights and old eyes. New rifle, only has had about 15 PLB shot through it, so nice clean bore. Patched balls load smoothly.
I tend to be a bit of an over thinker so you might be on to something.
Jackrabbit1957
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Does the patch look burnt? If so adding a pinch of hornet nest material over the powder will definitely help. If they are cut, not burnt, most likely sharp riflling is the culprit. Try a different patch material such as pillow ticking or canvas duck.
New rifle ?
or old one out of storage....?
postscript: If new -- very sharp rifling edges.
Suggest getting some JB bore paste, a wrap-around jag,* and 50-100 full length
strokes in/out of bore to barely knock the edges off/smooth the corners.
Patches will come out black. Don't worry about it as it's simply metal polish (like
Brasso or silver polish in effect)
* Don't pull the patch completely out of the muzzle between strokes -- only about 1/3 out.
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It will (eventually... very eventually) smooth out.
But the JB/polish technique is standard fix.
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/jb-bore-paste.27173/
Some folks do 30 strokes, some 40, some (like me) run 60-100.
You can just go to the range w/ it and see when/where it quits cutting patches.
Can't really harm things as patches really likely smoooooth.
Been there/done that multiple rifles.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/blown-patches.763519/#post-9648048
But the JB/polish technique is standard fix.
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/jb-bore-paste.27173/
Some folks do 30 strokes, some 40, some (like me) run 60-100.
You can just go to the range w/ it and see when/where it quits cutting patches.
Can't really harm things as patches really likely smoooooth.
Been there/done that multiple rifles.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/blown-patches.763519/#post-9648048
Armored farmer
Member
Another possibility is that the prelubed patches may have a little age on them. I believe they deteriorate in time.
@MEHavey is likely correct with the new, sharp rifling. However you can learn from the spent patches. I haven't seen patches looking like you described.
If you're interested in something different, take your digital calipers(cheap at harbor freight or Amazon) into your nearest fabric shop. Ask for cotton pillow ticking, or pocket drill(tough cotton used to make pockets). Find some that measures .015-.020 and buy a yard of each. Mark the thickness on the fabric with a Sharpie. Wash the fabric a time or two.
Dampen the patches in your mouth or spritz with ballistol or patch lube of your choice.
I doubt these patches will shred, and it will likely improve your accuracy.
Best wishes
@MEHavey is likely correct with the new, sharp rifling. However you can learn from the spent patches. I haven't seen patches looking like you described.
If you're interested in something different, take your digital calipers(cheap at harbor freight or Amazon) into your nearest fabric shop. Ask for cotton pillow ticking, or pocket drill(tough cotton used to make pockets). Find some that measures .015-.020 and buy a yard of each. Mark the thickness on the fabric with a Sharpie. Wash the fabric a time or two.
Dampen the patches in your mouth or spritz with ballistol or patch lube of your choice.
I doubt these patches will shred, and it will likely improve your accuracy.
Best wishes
Armored farmer
Member
I wouldn't like those.
arcticap
Member
I suspect your patches have a loose weave.
Not all brands of patches are equal or maybe it's a bad batch.
What brand are they?
Maybe rubbing some additional lube into the patch will help allow it to get a smoother start without being tugged apart.
I would consider switching to another brand of patches.
Have you tried the Eastern Maine shooting patches?
https://www.emshootingsupplies.com/#/
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....hooting?brand=eastern-maine-shooting-supplies
Other shooting patches are RMC/Ox Yoke and Thompson Center, which all may or may not come from the same factory.
Another concern is whether your patches are the correct diameter which is hard to tell from the photo.
I know it sounds far fetched but you never know which diameter or thickness the factory might put in the bag.
Is the ball totally surrounded by patch material after it's started?
It's also possible that the barrel will break in on its own after firing 100+ shots.
Have you examined the crown of the barrel?
Not all brands of patches are equal or maybe it's a bad batch.
What brand are they?
Maybe rubbing some additional lube into the patch will help allow it to get a smoother start without being tugged apart.
I would consider switching to another brand of patches.
Have you tried the Eastern Maine shooting patches?
https://www.emshootingsupplies.com/#/
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....hooting?brand=eastern-maine-shooting-supplies
Other shooting patches are RMC/Ox Yoke and Thompson Center, which all may or may not come from the same factory.
Another concern is whether your patches are the correct diameter which is hard to tell from the photo.
I know it sounds far fetched but you never know which diameter or thickness the factory might put in the bag.
Is the ball totally surrounded by patch material after it's started?
It's also possible that the barrel will break in on its own after firing 100+ shots.
Have you examined the crown of the barrel?
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I would have at first thought the sharp rifling was your problem, but after looking at the photo I'm with arcticap - loose weave. Go to the fabric store and buy pillow ticking [100% cotton ] without any "sizing" added to the material. It will say on the end of the card board plug the material is wrapped around if it has sizing added and if it's pure cotton. Most pillow ticking doesn't have it. It melts when used in a BP gun, or material with any nylon or rayon added to it. Then take it home and wash it in the washing machine at least once. It's now ready to use. A mic comes in handy to buy and try different thicknesses of patching material. Most guys will cut it in 2 to 3" strips, lube it, and after seating the patched ball in the barrel, cut the strip with a thin sharp knife. Yours look like square patches, which are all right. You'll find it easier to roll up a lubed strip about a foot long in your possible bag and just cut what's needed as you shoot. If you're just at a range any number of different ways of shooting are used as needed. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
arcticap
Member
Those are made by "Southern Bloomer" of Tennessee which is not a very popular brand.
I've heard of them in the distant past and looked them up just now for sale at Sportsman's Warehouse.
I wouldn't have a negative opinion about them except for your experience which is not typical for a .015 patch.
It should be more durable.
Don't do anything to alter your barrel until you try a different brand of patch.
I think that it has to do with the thread count per square inch.
Good luck and let us know how it works out.
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Armored farmer
Member
Fiddling with patch material can make a significant difference in your accuracy.
Even something as trivial as .003 thicker patch can make a notable difference.
I've seen accomplished target shooters literally hammer their prb combination down the barrel. I dont like them that tight, but they do shoot cleaner imho.
Even something as trivial as .003 thicker patch can make a notable difference.
I've seen accomplished target shooters literally hammer their prb combination down the barrel. I dont like them that tight, but they do shoot cleaner imho.
Okay I got some lubed .018" pillow ticking patches from Eastern Maine Shooting Supplies on the way. We will see what happens as far as loading, accuracy , and patch durability. With a .490" ball and .018" patch , I would think it should still load smoothly. Any reason not to keep using the .015" lubed patches just for plinking with the kids ?
arcticap
Member
IMO .018 will be tougher to start, .015 is standard.
Gently tapping it in with a mallet would help.
A long starter helps to tap it in deeper.
One can easily be made out of a thick piece of dowel from a home improvement store.
An almost bore size dowel can be made into a sturdy ramrod for a few bucks.
I only mention it in case your ranrod is flimsy.
Sure, you can keep using the Bloomer patches if you don't mind the fraying.
But I'd also recommnend getting some .015 patches because you won't know if the .018 will shoot as well.
Maybe you can add them to your order?
Call them in the morning if needed.
You'll want them down the road because your group size is pretty good for old eyes with open sights.
Some folks buy dry patches and lube them by hand to control the amount of lube and to keep them from drying out.
There's always an alternate way of doing things, and it's fun trying.
And all of this buys him what if he's already happy with how the gun loads and shoots and cleans up? I'm serious, aren't patches disposable? Why does it matter what they look like after they're used if there's no problem with accuracy, loading or cleanup?
Loyalist Dave
Member
You are correct IF the OP never shoots beyond 50 yards.
You may be correct if the OP does shoot beyond 50 yards...,
What matters is knowing what is going on with the rifle...and at that point he can continue to use the patches he currently has, and no worries, or he can correct the situation and go from there, if correction is deemed needed.
So when he runs out, is he committed to finding the same brand of patches? Does he need to hunt up a similar weave of cloth on the replacement patches? Will the weave matter?
He might just want to know that before he has to at the last minute, scrounge up more patches.
LD
Looking at the patches again in the pics, you're looking at edge shredding wherein
the ball exits the muzzle with randomized circumferential blow-out/pressure release.
Patches should almost appear to be in "pick`em up and use`em again condition if
you want long range precision -- which can be surprisingly/amazingly good. (MOA)
Knocking the new-cut/sharp rifling edges off can be had after several hundred(s) of shots...
or simple JB bore paste treatment at the start. (just don't pull the patch all the way out
of the muzzle during the repeated polishing strokes -- no big deal)
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/shredded-patches-after-firing.889822/#post-11951123
postscript: Hit Jo-Ann's fabric store with calipers in hand. 100% cotton pillow ticking / 0.018" thickness. Cut strips 2.5" wide and do cut-at-muzzle loading. For range purposes -- dampened spit-patch is ideal. Simple.
2 yards will last you a near lifetime.
the ball exits the muzzle with randomized circumferential blow-out/pressure release.
Patches should almost appear to be in "pick`em up and use`em again condition if
you want long range precision -- which can be surprisingly/amazingly good. (MOA)
Knocking the new-cut/sharp rifling edges off can be had after several hundred(s) of shots...
or simple JB bore paste treatment at the start. (just don't pull the patch all the way out
of the muzzle during the repeated polishing strokes -- no big deal)
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/shredded-patches-after-firing.889822/#post-11951123
postscript: Hit Jo-Ann's fabric store with calipers in hand. 100% cotton pillow ticking / 0.018" thickness. Cut strips 2.5" wide and do cut-at-muzzle loading. For range purposes -- dampened spit-patch is ideal. Simple.
2 yards will last you a near lifetime.
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whughett
Member
Not a rifle shooter here but have two single shot pistols a Patriot and a Armi San Marco, so thanks to this thread I can stop looking for patches after firing and examining them.
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