Sigs are better than Glocks !

[gc70]

Here is an article reprinted on the Springfield website that refers to the "XD Extreme Duty Pistol."

 

[RobMoore]

The point wasn't to get a history lesson. The point was against your claim that they are promoting the XD to the "easily swayed US consumer" as an extreme duty weapon.

The term "extreme duty" may have at one point been in common useage. I must have missed it, but it isn't anymore. The moniker isn't used on the main sections of website where XD models can be found, nor have I read it in any publication (though I do read few of them) in the past few years.

Edit: is there a date on that article? The reference to a sept 2000 test doesn't indicate if it was a recent test, at the time of the article.

 

[rellascout]

Between the eXtreme moniker and the Springfield rollmark convinced people to buy the pistol that was otherwise languishing in the market.

This is not opinion. This is fact. Once Springer took over the marketing of the pistol which featured "eXtreme" as part of the market campaign the pistol started to sell. Before that time it was like the Steyr M series. Just another Glock want to be pistol that almost no one was buying. That original "extreme" campaign put the pistol on the map. You may not have been aware of it then but I remember it clearly.

To make it worse if you read the literature even today Springer pretends that they developed the pistol in a lot of their literature. They pretend that they came up with this revolutionary design when in fact they simply bought existing technology renamed it and repackaged it. That is what Springer does best. IMHO

That article is from 2000.

 

[jaysouth]

Would someone care to name a department or agency that has adopted the Croatian XD whatever the the importer, SA, is calling it?

 

[FIFE RULES]

Sig vs glock

BOTH ARE GOOD GUNS OVERALL. Sigs are however, the choice among professionals and government agencies for a reason. "field tests, maintenance history and superior performance". Everyone knows when govt agencies have to purchase something the sale goes to the lowest bidder. If that were "always the case", special forces, homeland security and all law enforcement agencies would be carrying glocks and not Sigs. Some local law enforcement agencies do carry glocks because of the cost issue. Sigs are almost twice as much. My only issue with glocks is the plastic coated magazines. If you don't properly align it when inserting it into the weapon you "will scratch and put burs in the plastic coating which will prevent the mag from dropping when you press the mag release". I've witnessed this 1st hand in competition. The 1st generation glocks would not even drop a loaded mag much less and empty one, though that was corrected. It's just not something I would want in a combat pistol. You want to eject empty mags when they're empty and not have to pull them out when "time is of the essence in putting rounds on target!" I WOULD BUY A GLOCK IF I COULDN'T AFFORD A SIG.

 

[rellascout]

Would someone care to name a department or agency that has adopted the Croatian XD whatever the the importer, SA, is calling it?

I know of none.

 

[RobMoore]

Sigs are however, the choice among professionals and government agencies for a reason. "field tests, maintenance history and superior performance"

You may think government agencies choose SIGs over Glocks for those lofty reasons you stated, but sometimes it is as simple as they don't trust their agents to empty the gun before pulling the trigger to disassemble them, or the people in charge of procurement are old revolver shooters and don't trust a gun without a hammer.

I have heard first-hand a gentleman involved with testing and procuring weapons for a large federal agency proclaim "The hammer on a SIG can be cocked in case you need to take a careful accurate shot. That is an advantage it has over plastic guns".

 

[REAPER4206969]

Sigs are however, the choice among professionals and government agencies for a reason.

You need to read the thread.

 

[REAPER4206969]

"The hammer on a SIG can be cocked in case you need to take a careful accurate shot. That is an advantage it has over plastic guns".

 

[col_tapiocca]

I owned several SigSauer Pistols. (P225, P226 and P228). I sold them all but keep my Glock 17 and Glock 19. I don't like the high bore axis on all P22x Serie pistols.
price performance ratio of SigSauer products are very poorly.

The only SIG pistol that I still have is the SIG P210. The real SIG

 

[NinjaFeint]

My only issue with glocks is the plastic coated magazines. If you don't properly align it when inserting it into the weapon you "will scratch and put burs in the plastic coating which will prevent the mag from dropping when you press the mag release". I've witnessed this 1st hand in competition. The 1st generation glocks would not even drop a loaded mag much less and empty one, though that was corrected. It's just not something I would want in a combat pistol. You want to eject empty mags when they're empty and not have to pull them out when "time is of the essence in putting rounds on target!"

I have never heard of this happening to someone I know who owns a Glock. I know quite a few people who own Glocks.

Edit: I see this is your first post...

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

Okay. I am throwing in my .02 cents.... though I shouldn't.

Glocks and Sigs are both excellent weapons. If one has an ergonomic or aesthetic dislike, I don't know what to tell you. These guns are what they are. I'd trust my life to either company's products.

 

[Philo_Beddoe]

I am not knocking it. It is a decent gun but it cracks me up how easily the US consumer is swayed by marketing hype.

I dont know if I would call it marketing hype.

Springfield has a reputation for quality and excellent customer service, that is not marketing hype.

The fact that Springfield will stake their reputation and back up the gun with their warranty, basically says to most people that this is a quality firearm.

When it was HS2000, nobody knew who the manufactuer was and anything about their customer service.

Made in croatia does not exactly inspire confidence for quality given the context that the other famous product from that part of the world was the infamous YUGO car. A car known for being a complete POS.

HS lent its quality design and springfield gave it its excellent reputation.

When Glocks first came into the US market people used to think they were junk plastic guns, only have many years of having to prove itself did people change their minds.

HS basically short cut the process by using springfields good name. Both companies prospered by this arrangement.

 

[Supertac45]

I've never had a problem with any of my Sigs.

 

[rellascout]

Springfield has a reputation for quality and excellent customer service, that is not marketing hype.

You do know that expect for a few semi-custom 1911s Springfield does not manufacturer any guns.... Even those that they can claim made by... they are really only the assembler of parts.

They are like Browning. They are nothing but a name and a marketing company.

 

[Philo_Beddoe]

You do know that expect for a few semi-custom 1911s Springfield does not manufacturer any guns....

They are like Browning. They are nothing but a name and a marketing company.

Do you have a source on this information?

As far as I know they manufacture their 1911's and their M-14 clones, which with their XD line is all they market.

You realize almost all manufactures outsource these days right?

That "american made" car you got sitting in your drive has foreign parts in it.

 

[rellascout]

The vast majority of their 1911s are made by Imbel in Brazil.

I am not sure who is making their M-14 clones but it is not them.

The XD which accounts for the majority of their current sales are made in Croatia.

 

[Gungnir]

Between the eXtreme moniker and the Springfield rollmark convinced people to buy the pistol that was otherwise languishing in the market.

This is not opinion. This is fact. <snip>

Of course it would, from recollection the only successful handgun this century that hasn't had a huge marketing campaign associated with it is the 1911. Even that's debatable because of them being brought back post WW1 & 2 by former servicemen. Was getting the US armed forces a huge advertising campaign? Look at Dirty Harry and tell me that wasn't a huge marketing campaign for the 44 Magnum, or Miami Vice for the Bren Ten

GG did something similar but intentional by flogging off Glocks to law enforcement and then promoting that fact. He rightly saw that people would respond to "Hey we're so good your local cops use us." and set out to do just that. Quite a savvy move.

You could have the most technologically advance firearm (or actually anything) and if you don't have marketing then its not going to sell. So yes it was languishing as anything would.

However I do agree that Springfield do imply they are the originators and not just the Licensers.

Anyway back to the subjective subject. I prefer XD's although I like Sigs, Berettas and HK's not so fond of Glocks. They just don't do it for me. However they do it for other people, so great they fulfill a need, none is better than the other in the grand scheme of things, just some work better than others for individuals, and this applies to everything, some people wear boxers others wear Y-fronts, different but the same since they all take care of your tackle.

 

[rellascout]

I am not knocking Springer for the move to "market" the HS2000. IMHO it was a brilliant move.

 

[jaysouth]

Rellascout:

I thought ALL their 1911s were made in Brazil and fininshed in the US. Some more than others. If over 40% of final finish and assembly is in the US, no country of orgin need be stamped on the firearm.

It is interesting that folks are passionately stating a personal opinion believing that their personally held beliefs are scientific fact.

Nothing could be further from the truth. There is NO such evidence other than personal anecdotes.

Again, there are a lot of good guns out there, but there is no-one on this board that can truthfull say one is better than another because no factural evidence exists to support such a notion.

Stupid argument that wastes resources.

Hey, some of your chestbeaters, what is MTBF? Without that statistic you look pretty weak.

 

[rellascout]

Some of Springers guns can claim US origin. Most come from their custom shop. As I stated they are assembled from parts not of their own origin.

Do not take my statements about Springer as a insult. In fact I give them props for their marketing and intelligent manufacturing strategy. They have made a ton of money leveraging other peoples designs trading on a trusted name, Springfield, even if they have no connection to the Springfield of old.

They are a great marketing company that happens to sell guns.

 

[Gungnir]

I am not knocking Springer for the move to "market" the HS2000. IMHO it was a brilliant move.

No I'm not saying that you did, but some people are prone to leap to conclusions. Without thinking through the logic.

Hey, some of your chestbeaters, what is MTBF? Without that statistic you look pretty weak.

I'd lay odds that their HALT and HASS tested to the same MTBF, regardless of the manufacturer. Normally these are specified by a regulatory body for example SAAMI, can't be sure, since I've never looked into it.

Everything else isn't repeatable, sure you can freeze your XD or Glock in ice and break it out and it fires. Can all Glocks and XD's do this, we don't know. Same with all the extreme stress testing that's done.

 

[rellascout]

Getting back to the OP. Its all about ergonomics which are subjective. My hand it not your hand. My eye are not your eyes. My training and experience are not your experience.

A lot of times we are destined to prefer a certain platform because "x" was the one that we shot the most early in our shooting life.

If there was an end all be all platform for everyone there would be only one gun in production. Lucky for us we have choices.

Sig Vs Glock is a stupid question on its face.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Isn't trolling frowned upon??

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

a friend of mine is both a sig and glock armorer, and he sees FAR more issues with sigs than glocks. (in the form of broken extractors and ejectors most of the time.)

sig hasn't been the same since they moved to america.