So now I am not allowed to even hold a HANDGUN!!

[Black92LX]

Yeah so i was at the local gun shop admiring the Sigs. They had a nice 228 that i was checking out for a quite awhile. (man i really like that gun) so the guys says are you going to take that home today. i said i would love too. but unfortunatly rhe governement won't allow me to own one. he asked why. i then stated i wasn't 21 yet. So he said ohh i am going to need that back and unfotunatly i can't let you handle anymore handguns.

This crap is news too me. i hadn't even got to check out the Sig Pros yet.
I have never had this problem in the past is this something new i am unaware of.

 

[Sunray]

Go elsewhere. That clerk is full of excrement and apparently has lost you as a customer anyway. And if he's that stupid you don't want to give him your business anyway. And you should move to a State that will treat you like the potential soldier you are. I mean, your Regular Army will take you at 18, but you can't drink, sign a contract, vote, etc where you are until 21. Move.

 

[Kharn]

The same thing happened to me two weeks before my 21st birthday. I had a big wad of cash in my wallet in case I needed to make a deposit on a hard-to-get pistol while comparision shopping, but the dealer asked to see ID before he'd even unlock the case. Since he'd also been an *** to me before (he's not really friendly) when I was getting CO2 for my paintball guns, I havent been back.

If he hadnt acted like I was the ATF there to pull a sting on him, I might have gone back (as his wanting to see ID first is normal in Maryland), but now I will no longer darken his doorstep.

Kharn

 

[client32]

I don't know what the law on that is.
I did run across a "kid" behind the counter that thought he needed to check my ID to make sure that I was 21 before we would allow me to hold a gun. He thought he needed to show off in front of the other people there. I put kid in quotes because he was probably older than me. I was 23 at the time.

 

[raz-0]

well check your local laws. Technically it could be valid if your state is onerous enough and you aren't there with a parent or gaurdian. IT also might just be a gray area (i.e. you can't have minors without parent or gaurdian, and you have to be 21 for handguns.. what about 21 and fondling a handgun without P or G?), and the shop is covering their butts.

 

[TonyB]

In NY state you can't touch a handgun unless you already have a permit....no matter how old you are....and you can't get a permit till you're 21 so you do the math........all those guys teaching your kids to shoot the old 22 revolver in the woods or backyard.......you're breaking the law.....welcome NY ,where common sence has been thrown out the window!!!I gotta move to Vermont....the ONLY free state left.
Oh yeah...if you have a permit and go into the woods and shoot your buddies gun......guess what......a criminal....at the range it's ok tho...like that makes any kind of sense........

 

[Black92LX]

weel in ohio as long as you are with someone over 21 you can use a handgun. or at least that's what i thought and the guy behind the counter was clearly over 21.

 

[CWL]

Tough one, them's the breaks when you are under an age limit.

To be honest about it, If I ran a bar, I'd kick you out. If I sold cars and you were under 16, I'd not let you test drive.

This guy may just be a jerk, or he could be fearful of the Columbine event.

Would it help if you explained that you would be turning 21 in x-months and are contemplating the purchase of a new handgun on your birtday, so you wanted to learn all about them beforehand?

 

[Henry Bowman]

To be honest about it, If I ran a bar, I'd kick you out. If I sold cars and you were under 16, I'd not let you test drive.

It ain't a bar. Those are completely different (although maybe just as stupid) laws. We're not talking about test driving. If a 15 year old was there with a big wad of cash in his pocket, would you at least let him sit behind the wheel (w/o keys) in the show room?

Black, we gotta find you a new gun shop.

 

[pale horse]

Its the law now you can either live with it or you cant. Its been a law since I can remember and if I am not mistaken its a federal law. I would have done the same thing.

 

[LCSNM]

I have read the comments here and other posts and forums with interest. I have purchased several firearms, mainly from two dealers. Last week, I purchased another firearm from a 3rd dealer, one I had never purchased from before.

After completion of the necessary paperwork and wrapping my firearm up for me to take home, I was handed a pamphlet, "I am required to give this to you by law". No other comment from the clerk. Note: I have never seen this pamphlet or been given it by any other dealer.

YOUTH HANDGUN SAFETY ACT NOTICE ATF I 5300.2 (7-98)

FEDERAL LAW

The Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S>C. Chapter 44, provides in pertinent part as follows.

18U.S.C.922(X)

****I don't want to type the whole pamphlet, but some short excerpts*****

It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, DELIVER, or therwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has rasonable cause to believe is a juvenile.
handgun or ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun

it shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to possess
handgun
ammunition that is suitable for use only in a hangun


DOES NOT APPLY TO

JUVENILE IF THE HANDGUN AND AMMO ARE POSSESSED AND USED BY THE JUVENILE

course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile
with the prior written consent of the juveniles parent or guardian


ETC ETC ETC

Alot of do's and don't and gotcha's. I wasn't aware of this law until last week. Have I been out to pasture that long?

You might ask your dealers if they have this pamphlet.

Sorry about some misspelled/mistyped words, trying to read and type at the same time.

Iit appears that the store clerk was correct in refusing to allow the handling of the gun, in the original post. It also appears that questions by Walmart for juveniles is dictated by law. Sorry, not shouting, just forget to hit the capslock button. Hope this helps some understanding, although frustrating.

 

[Old Fuff]

The clerk in question may indeed be a jerk. But do keep in mind that these days anti-gun advovates, the media, and even the ATF&E are going around trying to set dealers and gun stores up.

If I was running a store I would be very careful about letting someone who was underage handle a handgun unless they were with a parent or other adult.

Unfortunately people in the trade have to take precautions that wouldn't have been thought of a few years ago.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

In Michigan you must be 21 also. Though in Wayne County, they'd prefer you to be 95 and infirm, so you could no longer lift it.

 

[Jeff OTMG]

You don't state how old you are, just that you are under 21. Ohio may have a state law that pertains to you, but if you are over 18 then it is fine for you to handle a handgun in a gun shop. No, you can't buy one there, but you can handle it.

The YOUTH HANDGUN SAFETY ACT NOTICE states:
(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term“juvenile†means a person who is less than 18years of age.

It is found in 18 U.S.C. 924(a)(6) and as stated there are numerous exceptions, but under federal law you are fine. Sounds like another case of an FFL holder not knowing the laws that govern his business.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Bear in mind as well that he may really know what is "permitted" better than you do, regardless of what the law says. It's not unusual for police to lean on gun shops and ranges, including arresting people for perfectly legal behavior and trusting the court system to "sort it out" (which appears to be a euphemism for "bankrupt the uppity civil rights nut.")

Illinois law requires that a gun be transported inside a "case, box, shipping box, bag, or other container" and unloaded. It does not mention ammunition and specifically states that any container is acceptable, and Illinois courts have found over the years that anything that completely encloses the gun is a "container."

However, most police are trained to believe that guns must be kept in the trunk of a vehicle with ammunition in a separate compartment and must be in gun-specific cases. Many also believe that the cases must be lockable (and must be locked up.) Though this is nonsense, lots of people go along with it rather than fight the tide. Hell, two shooters were once arrested in Springfield, IL for carrying a rifle in a case that also had several loaded magazines in pockets on its outside. They were--and this is not disputed--walking across the private parking lot owned by the indoor range they'd just visited at the time. In other words, as long as the owner approved, they could have been carrying those rifles loaded at the ready as long as they had FOID cards. That stopped a conviction, but it didn't stop an arrest.

I know that's not right, but it's understandable.

 

[Black92LX]

Bear in mind as well that he may really know what is "permitted" better than you do, regardless of what the law says.

i am not stating that he is wrong. just that this has never been mentioned in the past. nor have i heard of it.

 

[Tamara]

Kharn,

If he hadnt acted like I was the ATF there to pull a sting on him,

How did he know you weren't?

I'd recommend working for a while in a business where every innocent paperwork error is a federal felony; a business where the agency that's supposed to regulate and oversee you maintains an adversarial relationship with you, and actively tries to run dealers out of business. See if it makes you just a leetle paranoid...

 

[Moparmike]

Yep. I posted on this back in September, when I bought my shotgun. Weird thing is that my shotgun came stock with a pistol grip (!) in the box (separate from gun). Moronic laws these days.

Tamara, I genuinely feel for you, and those in your business. I had my last gun shop treat me the same way as 92lx (as I was purchasing and had checkbook in hand!). Unfortunately for me, I keep getting the crazy guy at the best gunshop around.

I genuinely feel for you too 92LX, as I dont turn 21 until july. However, I circumvented that stupid-a$$ law by doing a private party. (tee hee) See if its kosher in your state to do that. See if you can talk your parents into private party one for you.

Best of luck,

 

[CWL]

Moparmike, what you are describing sounds like a straw sale .

 

[Wildalaska]

I'd recommend working for a while in a business where every innocent paperwork error is a federal felony; a business where the agency that's supposed to regulate and oversee you maintains an adversarial relationship with you, and actively tries to run dealers out of business. See if it makes you just a leetle paranoid...

What she said........!

And, when a million dollar plus business can be shut down throwing numerous people out of work simply becasue of a "technical" violation of the law, well guess what, the rules aint gettin bent at all...

And I for one am tired of all the whining about it (not necessarily here I may add)...

WilddotheisandcrossthetsAlaska

 

[Geech]

Moparmike, what you are describing sounds like a straw sale .

Nope. According to federal law, parents can buy their under 21 children handguns.

 

[twoblink]

Don't get me wrong, there are always serious jerks in some of the gun shops, but overall, I usually think they are trying to CYA and so I cut them some slack.

I do recall a "which is the dumbest law in the PRK?" Competition the local gun shop had before, and some of the laws they dug up was enough to swoon the average man.. (One of them said he was almost positive that whaling with a rifle is listed as illegal..was this a problem they've run into?? I see a 5000 ton whale, and I have the urge to pull out my 308??)

You gotta stick it where the real problem is, the gov'ment. It's THEIR stupid laws.. so if you aren't happy, write write write your wormweas'ling congress critter...

BTW... Can I just add, most gun laws suck?

 

[Sven]

Got my NEW and IMPROVED California Handgun Safety Certificate today... (after my 'lifetime' certificate from last year was replaced by the wonderful legislature here, another $25).

The two questions I got wrong:

Minimum age to buy a gun in CA? (i said 18, answer is 21)
How long your guns are taken if you have a felony (I said 10 years, answer is LIFE)

 

[Kevlarman]

Well, it is called the handgun safety certificate, so I assumed all the drivel contained in the test pertained to handguns.

 

[Tamara]

Geech,

Nope. According to federal law, parents can buy their under 21 children handguns.

Scenario A: "Bobby, here is the handgun I bought you for Christmas."
Scenario B: "Here's $500, Mom; remember, it's the Model 21C I'm wanting. Bob's Sporting Goods has them."


One of those scenarios is a straw purchase, the other isn't. Like question one on a 4473 says: "Are you the actual buyer of this firearm?"