So what's with the brand hate?

[Tomcat47]

....may have been referring to S & W........

 

[Kliegl]

I'll never own an H&K. I refuse to pay for a firearm that has the "&" symbol in it's name.

The contextual relationship sort of implies he means HK. However, it might be a jab at S&W as well, like you suggest.

 

[doc2rn]

Can't speak for the HK's since I have never owned one, but Colt Glock and HK koolaid is the same where ever you go so why pay more for it.

As for a reason to hate Taurus I have 3.
Brand new 92 clone litterally fell apart as the first magazine was put through it. Stopped being shootable after round 6. Total 17 pieces one was never recovered and when shipped back in for CS they claimed a design change so they sent me the pieces back. I had to hire a gunsmith to machine the missing piece so I could sell it.
Had a .357 Titanium cylinder crack on #2 and they wouldnt replace it either.
#3 .17 HMR instant backup, necked rounds pushed back out of the cylinder causing the cylinder to bind every 3-4 shots.

3 strikes no more money from me and I sold both of the good Taurus revolvers I did own.

 

[USAF_Vet]

All ampersands aside, when I was stationed in Germany, (Rhein-Main AB, Frankfurt) all the German military, Air Force and Army alike, called them H und (and) K, or Heckler und/ and Koch. Considering this, I've always called them H&K. Not a big deal, nothing to get irate over. I don't get irate when people type High Point.

 

[alienbogey]

Opinions are opinions, and it's funny how the feature sets that inspires hate in some people will inspire love in others.

For example, some have called the Judge stupid for being an overly large/long revolver that will shoot 45Colt and .410, but those are the reasons that other people buy them.

Another example:

"-P7M8-hideous, heavy, uncomfortable and burns you if you dare touch the slide after a couple of mags due to it's silly gas delayed blowback system. I mean, the squeeze cocker is just redonculous."

My opinion, based on owning three P7's (the PSP variant), is that they're beautiful, no heavier than any other non-polymer pistol for the size, great ergonomically, gets hot in the trigger area if you shoot many (not just 'a couple') consecutive mags (just set it down and let it cool a bit) due to it's brilliant gas delayed blowback system (the slide gets hot just like any other semi-auto), and the squeeze-cocker system is also brilliant.

The exact same things that make MachIVShooter dislike the P7 make me love it.

Can't help adding: My one experience with HK CS was pleasant people and prompt repair and return for a reasonable price.

 

[carbuncle]

1) I don't , love 'em.

2) I don't, not the best guns but they fit a need. If I was hard up for cash and needed a revolver I'd buy a Taurus.

3) I don't hate the Judge, just don't need or have any use for one.

 

[Kliegl]

Fair enough, USAF.

On HK CS, I did send my USP Elite in because it had the tiniest bit of creep in the trigger, and I like my triggers up there in 1911 awesome land. They sent it back, said it had no issues, and updated the sear and springs to current on it (the main recoil spring is lighter, and the secondary is heavier.) No issues with their CS.

 

[wrs840]

Fanboyism and brand Loyalty:

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/05/19/fanboyism-and-brand-loyalty/

 

[Rail Driver]

Several things to consider:
1) None of these statements are universally true.
2) None of these statements are universally false.
3) When a gun is good, 1 person out of 100 tells someone.
4) When a gun is bad, or the user thinks it's bad, that one user will tell everyone, repeatedly.

and 5) When a gun owner speaks well of a particular gun, they are accused of being a "fanboy".

 

[trex1310]

My exprience with Tawruss hasn't been pleasant. I've never owned a
H&K. A Sig Sour P229 Equinox was the worst weapon I have owned lately. It would jam with any and all types of ammo. I sold it after 2 months.

 

[EddieNFL]

Eddie, there's no & in the name. Certain people, including one on this board, know that, and persist in being wrong for reasons of their own choosing.

I knew it, also. Sometimes, I intentionally use clip instead of magazine, bullet instead of cartridge and pistol instead of revolver.

 

[wrs840]

and 5) When a gun owner speaks well of a particular gun, they are accused of being a "fanboy".

Ha! The article is more about the psychology of "why the hate", which is kind of a "I love Ford to the exclusion of Chevy, because my choice is a display of whether I'm smart / savvy with my choices when buying expensive stuff. It's ego driven.

Another now pertinent point from the article: "Usually, these arguments are between men, because men will defend their ego no matter how slight the insult..."

 

[USAF_Vet]

and 5) When a gun owner speaks well of a particular gun, they are accused of being a "fanboy".

Not quite. When people incessantly nitpick over inconsequential things they delve into Fanboy-ish behavior. Some things, IMPO, just aren't big enough to justify the expense of energy and time, like nitpicking over whether or not the company name has a certain logogram or not.

 

[buck460XVR]

I don't "hate" any gun. There are some I like better than others, but why someone chooses to hate an inanimate object that has no control over it's origin and it's destiny, bewilders the befuddle outta me.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I'll never own an H&K. I refuse to pay for a firearm that has the "&" symbol in it's name.

You're cutting out an awful lot of really good options out there.

My opinion, based on owning three P7's (the PSP variant), is that they're beautiful

Subjective, just our opinions on that. So perfectly fair either way.

no heavier than any other non-polymer pistol for the size,

One of it's nearest competitors for size and capacity is the S&W 3913, which is a full 5 ounces (20%) lighter.

great ergonomically,

Again, that's pretty subjective, but most people I know who have handled one found it awkward because of the squeeze cocker. It is quite a bit thinker than other single stack 9mm's and requires a very firm grip to function, much moreso than a grip safety as on the 1911.

due to it's brilliant gas delayed blowback system (the slide gets hot just like any other semi-auto),

I disagree that it's "brilliant". There are simpler delay systems, not including normal short recoil (roller, dropping block, the unique Pedersen design found on the Remington 51/53) that are more cost effective and don't complicate take-down. And the P7 gets a lot hotter than any other 9mm I have experience with. I can run hundreds of rounds rapid-fire through my 5906 or baby eagle and touch the slide without searing my skin to the metal. The only other 9mm's I can think of that become unpleasant to grab are those like the Beretta, with an exposed barrel.

and the squeeze-cocker system is also brilliant.

I suppose if you like it. But again, I submit that if it were so great, it would be widely copied. It is not.

If the P7 works for you, great. But for me (and most others, as evidenced by sales), $1,300 is way too much money for a gun that doesn't offer any advantage over pistols in the $400-$600 range.

 

[Guillermo]

$1,300 is way too much money for a gun that doesn't offer any advantage over pistols in the $400-$600 range.

I paid 600 for my P7



no way I would have it if it cost 13 bills

What gun is worth that?

 

[Fleetwood_Captain]

Well I think that in the case of HK, they strike people as a bit of an oddball because of their non-traditional designs. And because they fall in line price-wise with the more traditional Sig, a lot of people with that price range in mind just buy the Sig instead.

But the hate for Taurus, that's easy. Taurus isn't a "top shelf" manufacturer and most of their designs are copies. Why buy a new replica that doesn't really have a collector following when you can buy the real thing, previously used, for about the same price?

 

[merlinfire]

Fanboyism and brand Loyalty:

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/05/...brand-loyalty/

You summed this whole thread up in a nutshell with scientific proof, and I wonder how many even bothered to read it.

 

[Kliegl]

Oh, I sure did. This right here is awesome.

Apple advertising, for instance, doesn’t mention how good their computers are. Instead, they give you examples of the sort of people who purchase those computers. The idea is to encourage you to say, “Yeah, I’m not some stuffy, conservative nerd. I have taste and talent and took art classes in college.”

And OMG that HK has a &!!!! <falls over dead>

 

[Nagant]

Cheap, crappy guns...

I don't really hate anything, as long as the manufacturer is honest about what they are selling.

I saw some folks who were totally new to shooting who had bought a couple of jimenez arms pistols. I was not impressed by the guns (or the people shooting them, that's another story)... and I would say that I border on hating guns that are so poorly made that somehow both guns these people were shooting (brand new out of the box) were BROKEN within 15 minutes of the first shot. That, to me, can't be summed up as a coincidence.... I now have an even worse opinion of jimenez arms because of this. That's just me

 

[EddieNFL]

....may have been referring to S & W........

I would have to dig one out of the bottom of the safe, but I don't recall a "&" in the S&W logo, either.

You're cutting out an awful lot of really good options out there.

It was a joke. But I will probably never will buy and H&K...just not my cup 'o tea.

 

[Bernie Lomax]

That Mossberg has lost all credibility as a serious gun manufacturer ever since they started marketing all these dumb-as-dog-poo PGO shotgun variants with fake suppressors, .50 BMG muzzle brakes, "breacher chokes" and other goofiness hanging off them.

Mall ninja cash spends just like regular cash. Mossberg is just picking up some money that they had previously left lying down on the floor, that's all.

 

[Sam1911]

and 5) When a gun owner speaks well of a particular gun, they are accused of being a "fanboy".

...and 6) When a gun owner has a problem with a particular gun, or expresses distaste for some feature, they are a "hater." (Or in the case of some dude I remember from last year, a "hatter," though that was just confusing.)

Nothing is worth, or not worth, defending to the death, or not, as a good, or bad, opinion, as long as it does, or doesn't correspond with mine, and I will, or won't, defend or attack, your right to express, or not express, that opinion, to the very death ... especially if that battle involves nothing more than a keyboard and a lot of hot, sweaty air ... and if by "death" you mean being insulted by, or insulting, others up to and including the very point of -- well, if it has to come to it -- being temporarily or permanently kicked off of some internet message board.

This is serious stuff, folks!

 

[EddieNFL]

Or in the case of some dude I remember from last year, a "hatter," though that was just confusing

Was he mad?

 

[Ky Larry]

I don't hate any brand of gun. I buy what I like and keep what works for me. After almost 50 years of gun ownership and shooting, I don't care what you shoot or what you think of what I shoot. Your opinion is like your waste evacuation orafice. It's just not very important to me. Just my $0.02 worth.