Some decisions for deer

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Crawdad1

Crawdad1

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After a summer full of groundhog hunting I'm pretty sure of my 1860 Colt in Army caliber with 25 grains of 3Fg GOEx, a 451 ball and a single Oxy Wonder Wad. I'm stoked that I continued to experiment with this revolver more and didn't settle for the previous loads I was using (30 to 35 grains of 3Fg GOEx with 2 wonder wads and a 451 or 454 ball) inconsistent to say the least.

Yesterday I hit one at 20 paces after missing high on another that was closer. I put the top of the front blade well up into the 'V' notched back sight and sent the ball well over its head. As I paced it off and checking for blood I saw where the ball had ploughed into the dirt road. The second pic is the 'V' notch I cut into the hammer. I used JB Weld to fill the previous notch and recut it to the left to center POI at 25 yards. It looks like crap but I have a spare hammer I'll file over the winter. The one in the pic was just my 'sightin in' hammer.

But my problem here is while I was working my way up to the dirt road, I saw numerous deer trails and at least a half dozen deer that were no more than 25 yards from me. My problem is should I go with the loose powder and ball ( averaged out at 141 grains) load or start working up a load for the 45 Schofield conversion with a 165 or 180 grain ball.

I have till the Monday after Thanksgiving to work up this load.
 

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First, and it's just me, but I'd use a .454 ball in it, I get much better groups. The .451 doesn't seem to shave a good ring of lead when loading, so I wonder if it's not grabbing the rifling as well. I also use 30 grains at paper, but prefer 35 grains and forego the wad and just put some bore butter over the chamber if I'm taking it to the woods.

But that's just me. Someone may have better advice. I actually prefer my 1858, I can get 40 grains in it with a RB.

But remember Pyrodex or 777 is a little stouter than most real BP.
 
+1 on using the .454s and recommend switching to GOEX Olde Eynsford or SWISS which are only slightly less powerful than 777.

The conversion isn't going to give you any more stopping power really at the distances you are hunting. If hunting in brush or for reaching out past 40-50 yards, then get yourself a Kaido Conical mold and use those.

The Kaido Conical is an Elmer Keith inspired design rebated for use in our cap and ball revolvers. They are quite accurate and hit like a freight train. They are PROVEN performers on big game already.
 
Well, I'm not considering changing my black powder load as it is very accurate out of this revolver, but should I work up a load with my conversion. The 165 and 180 grain 45 Schofield out of this sight picture gave me reasonable accuracy at 25 yards (not as good as the loose powder and ball load though) but I'm considering whether to tweak it some or just go with the loose powder and ball load for deer.


But come hell or high water I'm going deer huntin with this here shootin iron!!! :)
 
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The conversion isn't going to give you any more stopping power really at the distances you are hunting.
Click to expand...


I see what you're saying, at around 25 yards why monkey around with the conversion and if you want to work up a load, tweak the black powder load. I got it. :)
 
I love my 1860s and I shoot them a lot. A lot of SASS matches but when it comes to killing an animal there are so many better choices available. I'd use a heavy loaded 41 magnum for my deer gun because that's what I have.
Will the 454 ball from an 1860 kill a deer? Sure, most of the time, but I'd rather be sure.
The performance of the 454 RB in the 1860 is equivalent to a moderately loaded 38 special.
 
Excellent posts guys!!! Just a varmint hunting load or enough for a deer, (25 grains of 3Fg GOEx, 451 @ an average 141 grain round ball) that's the question. :)

Noz, I love em too!!!!
 
I'll just say this...
I have taken a dozen or more deer with a handgun, and really enjoy handgun hunting. If C&B revolvers were legal to use here in Illinois, I would certainly use it. If you are taking groundhogs, then you can put one in the engine compartment of a deer.

I say if it's legal where you hunt, then go for it. You probably won't have much worse performance with that .451 than I have had using a .357.
 
I have a handful of NMLRA Territorial medals that I earned with my '58 Remington. I sure would like to hunt deer with it... but not legal in Il.
Click to expand...

That's great kbbailey, my hat is off to you as those competitions are intense, especially at the NMLRA events.

Good or bad I'll post the results. I'll stay with the loading I have confidence in, but next spring I'll start with the other suggestions as well.
 
I've taken 6. All grown deer, two bucks and 4 does. Ranges were from 10 yds to 28 yds. All were shot with 30 gr of Swiss FF and a hand cast (pure lead) .454 RB with a handmade lubed wad over the powder. Never shot any of the critters more than once. Never had to blood trail. Make sure your POI is at the point of the front shoulder and you'll get a pass thru both shoulders breaking both of them. ( This is where practice comes in) They just come unhinged and collapse. Don't fall into the trap of under estimating the penetration and killing power of a pure lead RB. Its devastating in a different way. Stop trying to compare it to conical s and such. Its not a conical or such. Just have faith in it, let it do its thing and you'll make meat every time. If you do your part.
 
I know Dave, I've been wrestling with that regulation for some time now. The problem lies in the Game Commissions definition of a muzzleloader or lack thereof and the void surrounding the definition of what exactly is a revolver. My so called interpretation has always been, "a single barreled weapon loaded from the muzzle."
 
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Why not check with the Game Commission for their definition of what constitutes a ML? In Ohio, a revolver does not count. Not sure what qualifies in PA.
 
We've tried. Either they won't answer you or they contradict themselves. I also know that under the 'Legal' section of this board others here have tried and got no better results. But, the simplest way to resolve this is do what I've done before and use the conversion.

That's the inherent beauty of these revolvers. :)
 
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"The performance of the 454 RB in the 1860 is equivalent to a moderately loaded 38 special."

That depends on the powder you choose to load:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WNYGs2_UZw

You'll note that with a reduced load and with light compression 3F Triple 7 well outpaced the 3F standard Goex. 3F Swiss and Goex Olde Eynsford gives very similar velocities with the same volume of powder as T7. So a RB can actually give numbers closer to a .44 Spl or standard .45 ACP.

The numbers on the RB loads are a little off as a .457" RB does not weigh 148 grns, but about 144. And as was pointed out to me in another conversation there's the shaving of the ring which further reduces the weight by a few more grains.
 
Noz said:
...but when it comes to killing an animal there are so many better choices available. I'd use a heavy loaded 41 magnum for my deer gun because that's what I have.
Click to expand...

A Kaido conical backed by SWISS or 777 IS .41 Magnum territory in terms of velocity.

The .454 round ball behind high grade BP or 777 is far superior in stopping power to even a +P .38 Spl. Not even close, paper ballistics is not a valid comparison.

There are a bunch of fellas in Miami, Florida who have been sixgunning dear and big wild hogs in the Florida Everglades for decades with Cap and Ball revolvers. Inside of 25 yards there's nothing better, not even a .30-06. They also hunt with modern rifles and pistols and revolvers but the most devastating wound channels come from Kaido conicals fired out of their cap and ball revolvers.

Rudy Betancourt doesn't come around here much but you can contact him, see his posts and photos of the hogs they've taken at percussionsrevolvers and internationalblackpowderhandgunhunters yahoo groups.
 
jgh4445 said:
I've taken 6. All grown deer, two bucks and 4 does. Ranges were from 10 yds to 28 yds. All were shot with 30 gr of Swiss FF and a hand cast (pure lead) .454 RB with a handmade lubed wad over the powder. Never shot any of the critters more than once. Never had to blood trail. Make sure your POI is at the point of the front shoulder and you'll get a pass thru both shoulders breaking both of them. ( This is where practice comes in) They just come unhinged and collapse. Don't fall into the trap of under estimating the penetration and killing power of a pure lead RB. Its devastating in a different way. Stop trying to compare it to conical s and such. Its not a conical or such. Just have faith in it, let it do its thing and you'll make meat every time. If you do your part.
Click to expand...

Amen!

Man in general and me included, always want to change the way things are done right before they even do it themselves. :banghead:
 
I have a question.. when I sign on to THR I can't seem to get right into the black powder section I gotta scroll thru the feed to find the posts related to black powder shooting can someone point me in the right direction ??
 
There are a bunch of fellas in Miami, Florida who have been sixgunning dear and big wild hogs in the Florida Everglades for decades with Cap and Ball revolvers. Inside of 25 yards there's nothing better
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Great info Swathdiver. I'm very confident of my loading in this 1860 Colt to 25 yards and have been practicing with paper targets and some beer cans throughout the summer. But, this last time out groundhog hunt really has my confidence up. :)

But, it all comes down to what Dave has posted, what do they mean by "muzzleloader"
 
Crawdad, try this:

"Ring, Ring".... Hello? PA Game Commission here.
Sir (or Madam) I've been trying to determine if this ( state the gun and caliber) is legal in PA to hunt deer with. Uh huh...well no, that doesn't really answer my question. May I please speak with your supervisor?

Repeat until satisfied.
 
According to LD:
"On page 45 of the PA hunting guide it specifies .50 caliber handgun or larger in either gun or flintlock deer season."

It is not a .50 cal and therefor seems illegal to use as a primary. Maybe it can be taken as a backup as I can in TX.
 
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