Some decisions for deer

[rodwha]

"I'd be tempted to try a light .452 bullet."

Me too! It's why I designed this:

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-195C-D.png

You'll note that it's only .460" long so as not to take up powder capacity, and with a .375" meplat, if it doesn't expand, it will still create a nice wound track.

 

[Crawdad1]

I agree JGH,

But one day you may get a yes and one day you may get a no.

But that is not a knock on the PA Game Commission, the percussion revolver is simply not defined in the code, at least I can't find where its at. Maybe its defined deep down in the code where you would need a either a lawyer or a law clerk people who are more familiar with working with the code and cross referencing a law code to find where they define it, I don't know.

I always assumed, possibly now incorrectly, that in PA a muzzleloader was a single barreled, single projectile weapon. here is a previous discussion concerning PA.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=606998&page=2&highlight=PA+Attorney+General

 

[Armored farmer]

That's a good lookin' slug rodwha. A good lube groove too. It looks ideal.
I am torn between performance and tradition.

 

[rodwha]

Thanks!

I began looking at muzzleloaders through a more modern lens once I saw how terrible a ball looked on paper. Since then I've been quite drawn to the history, and having read far too many accounts on just how well a ball does perform I gave up on the need for a better hunting projectile from my rifle, though I do have a REAL mold for anything I'm not confident in with my .490" ball, or that requires a little more range.

And I do want a rifle/barrel topped with a Malcolm style scope for hunting fields and such, and at that point I may look into paper patched bullets.

But for my pistols I feel at a disadvantage I suppose, and so looked to make it perform as best as I know how. I do, however, want to hunt with a ball from it once I feel more certain.

 

[Crawdad1]

Rodwha, that looks interesting. Is there enough space to ram it on a '60 Army??

Looks like a good project for next spring, sighting in my 1860 Army with your bullets.

Where can you buy these bullets???

 

[rodwha]

My Pietta Remington '58 needed the loading window opened up quite a bit for even his shorter brother that weighs 170 grns and is only .400" long. But I'd think it possible were it an Uberti model. The nose is just so wide, and the original conicals were so pointy in comparison.

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-170C-D.png

I had Accurate Molds make it for me.

 

[Charles S]

A Kaido conical backed by SWISS or 777 IS .41 Magnum territory in terms of velocity.

While I have no experience in this combination, I sincerely doubt that.

 

[Crawdad1]

Which has the bigger loading window, the '60 Colt or the '58 Remington?

 

[rodwha]

It appears as though the Colt's is a little longer, but it's the way Pietta designed the frame on the Remington that makes it unusable for my bullets. I had to round the edge and open it up a bit.

But I'm really not certain how exactly these differ. My Ruger had no problems at all.

 

[Crawdad1]

Will they fit in a '60 Colt?

 

[rodwha]

I don't know. All I have is my Ruger and a Pietta Remington '58.

 

[swathdiver]

While I have no experience in this combination, I sincerely doubt that.

That's right Charles you don't, but others do and have chronographed the loads and posted the results.

 

[Charles S]

Off topic, but....

That's right Charles you don't, but others do and have chronographed the loads and posted the results.

So you are saying that with a 230 grain cast bullet you can achieve ~1,400 FPS with a black powder revolver? That is my current hunting load. That can be surpassed with several "custom" factory loads.

Just curious. I did not realize that kind of performance could be achieved with black powder.

 

[Charles S]

I just spent some time on the Hogden website looking at their data, unless I am missing something there is nothing that comes close to "my" 41 magnum loads. I am well within specs and do not exceed any listed maximums. I would be happy to review any posted data from chronographs and would be happy to say I am wrong. I think a black powder pistol would be more than adequate for deer, but I think I would use similar limitations to a bow because of the overall low energies. I have hunted with a bow, both re-curve and compound, and modern pistols.. 357, 10 mm, 41 magnum, 44 magnum, 45 super, and 45 long colt. One just has to know their personal limits and their equipments limits.

 

[Crawdad1]

One just has to know their personal limits and their equipments limits.

I wholeheartedly agree there.


To hunt deer I've been practicing with this and only this revolver for 2 years now (well I did buy a Remington but soon tired of it and went back to my Colt). Most Saturdays in June, July, August and September between 30 and 40 shots per day, approximately a total of 400 to 500 rounds through it, and I'm finally confident enough to hunt deer with it with this loose powder and ball load. I think I'm ready. But, I'm going out to practice again next week if the weather holds. A lot of practice, but the deer are worthy of it.

 

[Charles S]

A lot of practice, but the deer are worthy of it.

That says a lot! You will do well.

 

[swathdiver]

Charles, I did say .41 Magnum "territory". Yes, they can shoot even 255 grain conicals at around 1200 fps with soft lead bullets to blast a devastating wound channel through big wild hogs. If you'll peruse the posts and data over on the yahoo forums, you'll see fellas over their who own .41s and admit their cap and ball sixguns are better for taking down big game. You'll even see their chrono reports and can ask them questions if you like.

 

[Charles S]

Charles, I did say .41 Magnum "territory". Yes, they can shoot even 255 grain conicals at around 1200 fps

That is impressive performance and that is 41 magnum "territory." Before I settled on the 230 grain hard cast (Keith bullet) I experimented with some cast 265 grain bullets and only were pushing them about 100 fps faster than that. My pistols did not like the load accuracy wise.

I bet that is a devastating load. I am impressed. I did not realize that one could achieve that kind of performance from a black powder revolver. Hmmmm something new to add to my list of things to experiment with.

 

[swathdiver]

Yes, the new Kaido Conicals are Keith inspired with a rebated base for loading into the chambers. In .44 caliber they come in three sizes now and one in .36 caliber.

Mike Belevieu's ROA blew through 12 or 15 1 gallon water jugs and kept on going. Not even a .30-06 can do that.

The fellas from Miami post reports and pics of their kills to promote the use of the cap and ball sixgun for taking big game. Look up and contact Rudy Betancourt for more info, I believe he also has a .41 Ruger Black Hawk.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

...the percussion revolver is simply not defined in the code...

Well then from a legal standpoint, if you use it and claim it's a muzzleloader and a judge agrees, then it has to be .50 caliber. If you claim it meets the requirements for a modern revolver, you are then excluded from muzzleloader season.

However, I think you run the huge risk of a judge determining that since it isn't defined in the regulations, nor is it specifically one of the firearms enumerated for use during any of the hunting seasons, it does not fall within a legally accepted method for taking game, and thus is altogether prohibited.

For example, squirrel are not listed as a "fur bearing" animal in the hunting/trapping regulations in my state. They may be legally taken with various firearms, but they are not listed as trappable. So...say a hunter put out a few modified rat-traps, on some leaning trees, baited with peanut butter, and then moved off to do some deer hunting, returning later to collect the squirrels? Somebody might determine that since squirrels in the wild are not listed as legally trapable, even though it doesn't say they can't be trapped AND even though it's not illegal to dispatch a squirrel that has invaded your attic with a trap, that taking squirrel by trap is not a legal means. The same might be had for that "gray" area of your revolver.

You could also just not worry about it unless a DNR person questions you about it. Just document how many times and from whom you got an answer other than "nope".


LD

 

[Crawdad1]

Well then from a legal standpoint, if you use it and claim it's a muzzleloader and a judge agrees, then it has to be .50 caliber. If you claim it meets the requirements for a modern revolver, you are then excluded from muzzleloader season.

I agree Dave, I'm only going to use it in the 'modern' season that starts the Monday after Thanksgiving.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Hey Crawdad1!
How bout a .45 Colt conversion cyl for hunting? That prob meets the law requirements up their and you get to use the '60 to do it with!! (With bp loaded 45s if ya want)

Good post BTW!!

 

[Crawdad1]

Thanks Dragoon!! I have the conversion, but I wish I had taken a picture of the paper target I shot the other day using the 165 grain 45 Schofield. I just couldn't get the groups I got with the loose powder and ball load at 25 yards. But after watching Brushy's video and his tack driving 'Goonerized' 1860, I was thinking about sending it to you.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Not a problem!! What year was the 60 made?

Gimmy a buzz..

www.goonsgunworks.com

 

[Crawdad1]

Dragoon, its an Uberti from Taylors & Company I bought in December 2012. Other than that I don't know when it was made. Can you tell from the serial number?