Speer Gold Dot vs Winchester PDX1 in 9mm

Which brand is better in 9mm?

  • Winchester PDX1

    Votes: 15 23.1%

  • Speer Gold Dot

    Votes: 50 76.9%
  • Total voters
    65
  • Poll closed .
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there's loads of youtube vids, and pics on forums/blogs showing the pdx1 to be an inconsistent performer.

not sure how much longer the fbi will stick with it.


ATK products have always been better performers than winchester's jhp's. stick with either gold dot, hst, or tactical bonded.

the "talons" on the ranger rounds are nothing more than a marketing scheme. they create identical permanent wound cavities as other equivalent brands.
 
Well, the PDX1 wasn't approved by Dr. Roberts, and he was the head of the IWBA; the research he and his group did is pretty much why we are where we are today in terms of premium SD ammunition. That holds more than enough weight for me.
Click to expand...

doctor roberts determined that Winchester jhp's (such as ranger-t and pdx1) failure to expand stem from bad QC. the tools that cut the jacket serrations are not changed when they should be, and become dull.
 
I do find it very hard to believe that Winchester would offer the round the FBI uses to the public in free form when their Ranger-T boxes are specifically marked as "Law Enforcement Only," and gun shops are not allowed to sell them to civilians. ...Just a thought.
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The reason that Winchester, and every other ammo maker has a "LE only" line is because they don't have to pay the 11% excise tax on it. That is why they do not allow it to be sold to private Citizens.

The FBI uses Ranger Bonded which is the exact same thing as PDX1. They bought $54 Million dollars of it, and every federal agency that issues a .40 uses it as well.

It replaced their GoldDots.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has awarded Winchester®
Ammunition the single largest ammunition contract in the history of
federal law enforcement worth a maximum of $54 million.

Winchester Ammunition will produce 40 S&W service ammunition,
training ammunition, reduced lead training ammunition and frangible
ammunition for the FBI for one base year, with four, one-year renewal
options.

"The innovation behind the enhanced 40 S&W bonded service round is a
testament to our Winchester engineers and the quality of our
manufacturing," said Dick Hammett, president, Winchester.

Winchester's enhanced 40 S&W service ammunition is a 180-grain,
bonded jacketed hollow point round and was selected over all other
rounds that were tested. The FBI tests the terminal ballistics of
each round by shooting a specific test protocol through various
barriers such as heavy cloth, wallboard, plywood, steel and auto
glass into ballistic gelatin.

In addition to the FBI, the contract affects many agencies both
inside and outside the Department of Justice, including the Drug
Enforcement Administration, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and
Explosives and U.S. Marshal Service.

"On behalf of Winchester, we are extremely proud that our nation's
premier law enforcement agency has selected Winchester ammunition to
use in its mission of protecting and defending the United States,"
said Hammett.

For more information about Winchester Ammunition and its complete
line of products visit www.winchester.com
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
REAPER4206969 said:
The FBI uses Ranger Bonded which is the exact same thing as PDX1.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I find that incredibly difficult to believe; the expanded Ranger Bonded bullet and the expanded PDX1 bullet look nothing alike. The PDX1 looks like a hybrid of the Ranged Bonded and the Ranger-T bullets on close inspection.
 
REAPER4206969 said:
That info is from Winchester regarding the .40.

The 9mm is said to be different.
Click to expand...
Winchester Internal Ballistics Testing

According to Winchester, the .40 Ranged Bonded in 180gr fails denim testing and heavy cloth testing.

In denim testing, the 180gr bullet overpenetrated to 21.8" and expanded to only 0.51." In heavy cloth, the 180gr bullet overpenetrated to 19" and expanded to only 0.55."

There is no possible way the FBI would have accepted this round with those two results, as the Gold Dot 180gr severely outperforms it.
 
Are you suggesting that Winchester is lying on their site, press releases and ammunition boxes?

The FBI's primary concern is penetration. They wanted a round that penetrated 15"-18" (IIRC) and they got it.

Pistolcartridge.jpg
 
Since there is so much division over this topic I gather that they are both great loads.

But, I think I'll be sticking with the tried and true gold dot for my future purchase to replace my non +P 124 gain gold dots. I'm just more comfortable with it. I've also done some small game hunting with that load and have seen it work fantastically with my own eyes.

Now if only I can find some of the 50 round boxes instead of the chump 20 rounders.
 
I'm not suggesting Winchester is lying; I'm suggesting that the PDX1 is not the Ranged Bonded as you say it is.

The FBI would not accept a round which failed it's own testing, this much is fact. The .40 180gr Bonded failed both denim and heavy cloth and is unacceptable for LE use. The PDX1, therefore, cannot be the Ranged Bonded.
 
could be any number of reasons the pdx1's perform so poorly despite the FBI using it, according to winchester's LE site.

could be better QC for ammo made for the FBI, or simply the FBI hasn't tested it lately and seen this kind of performance, or maybe winchester simply uses the same "bullet technology" but the actual bullets are slightly different. who knows?

one thing i'm sure of, none of us know the reason.
 
If anyone can find an E-mail for Winchester, they should ask if the .40 PDX1 is the same as Ranger Bonded.

They maybe you'll believe me.
 
HST's are usually my first choice, but since that's not an option, Gold Dot's are a very close second. If it were a car only gun I would choose Gold Dots first, they do a bit better when dealing with auto glass from what I have seen.
 
REAPER4206969 said:
Here is the 180gr. .40 PDX1 test from the same guy you linked to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc5ToYdcq7A&feature=channel_video_title
Click to expand...
Interesting. The 180gr PDX1 seriously outperforms the 9mm (124gr and 147gr) PDX1 in similar testing. I'd love to see more testing done on this one.

Also, if that's the Ranger Bonded, then they must have updated it. OR, Winchester tested a really, really bad batch. It does look a bit more like the expanded Bonded bullets I have seen, but it's still a bit different, and I've never, ever seen a Bonded bullet expand that much.

I would, however, be comfortable carrying the 180gr PDX1 from that video after doing my own testing to confirm those results. The only important factors for civvies in terms of ballistic testing are the bare gelatin, denim and heavy clothing tests; the rest really don't matter much to us.
 
HST's are some of, if not the best JHP design on the market right now. HST retain more weight through auto windshields than the bonded gold dots, even though they are not bonded.

check it out on ATK's LE website :)
 
and feel that .2 of an inch more expansion or 2" more penetration is going to win or lose the fight
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While I agree in principle that marginal improvements are no substitute for training, the two are not mutually exclusive.
"The race is not always to the fast nor the fight to the strong, but that's the way to bet."
In other words, all else equal, why not opt for every advantage you can get?
 
Gold Dots have been around a lot longer and have a good track record, so there are no doubt more fans for that round. I like 'em, too. But I think that ANY of the top shelf JHP ammo is going to perform in a similar manner. I wouldn't hesitate to carry the PDX ammo.
 
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