SS109 for Home Defense

[Timradcliffe345]

A buddy of mine has a mag of SS109 (5.56) in his AR as his primary HD weapon. He lives in the suburbs in a brick house. How good of an idea is this considering the penetrating capabilities of the round? His concern is bad guys with body armor. Good idea?

 

[HorseSoldier]

At home defense ranges there's pretty good odds that the round will fragment and break up, reducing over-penetration risks. Add to that the fact that once 5.56mm starts yawing it's penetration capability drops dramatically and it's probably as good as anything else for home defense.

Though the concern about bad guys in body armor seems a bit questionable, unless your friend lives in a truly rough neighborhood or owes money to Colombian entrepreneurs in the import-export business.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Thats just military FMJ, right? Sure. It kill all the same and even if it doesn't he has 29 rounds after the first one.

 

[Timradcliffe345]

Thats just military FMJ, right?

I think it has some kind of steel penetrator incorporated into its design. I believe this is a little different from the standard ball ammo.

 

[Langenator]

I'd be interested to know what kind of enemies he has that he's worried about BGs with body armor.

If it's the local black suit and ski mask wearing cops, they've probably got hard panel body armor, similar to the military's IBA. Stuff that's designed to actually stop rifle rounds, making his use of 5.56 semi-AP SS109 a moot point.

If it's the local home invasion gang, the chances of them having body armor are low. I'd place my faith in 12 gauge #1 or #4 and have a few slug rounds handy in case I need them.

 

[possum]

i wouldn't have an issue using it, though i choose to use hornaday tap for my ar in the hd role.

 

[goon]

I'd use something that didn't include a steel penetrator in its construction.

 

[TexasRifleman]

His concern is bad guys with body armor. Good idea?

I have to ask why your buddies primary concern is bad guys with body armor?

Is he doing something in that house that might invite folks with body armor?

The crime statistics do not show that criminals are using much body armor for home invasions. It certainly should not be at the top of the list for choosing home defense ammo.

Advise your buddy to stop watching HEAT and get a box of Hornady TAP ammo or Black Hills Mk262Mod1 for the AR.

Either of those are top of the line for home defense ammo with an AR.

 

[possum]

Black Hills Mk262Mod1

another great choice.

yeah though it his highly unlikley that you will be faced with a bad guy in your home with body armor, if he was having a set up for an active shooter situation then the defeat of body armor "might" be a concern then.

 

[Soybomb]

The military is forced to use fmj rounds, we are not. Something like 75 gr hornady tap would be a far better choice since we are not bound by the same limitations as the military. Soft armor isn't a concern for it. You'd use better than m882 in your 9mm handgun, do your rifle the same favor.

 

[skinewmexico]

If the bad guys have that kind of body armor, your buddy has bigger problems that an AR won't fix.

 

[TexasRifleman]

The military is forced to use fmj rounds, we are not

Actually they are not. They are currently using the Mk262Mod1 in many areas which is an Open Tip Match bullet (hollow point).

There is no restriction against using hollow point ammo by the military anyway.

What the Hague Conventions actually say is:

"The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions."

The USA did not sign this by the way, but we honor it.

And in the current situation we should be ignoring it because the document continues with:

The present Declaration is only binding for the Contracting Powers in the case of a war between two or more of them.

It shall cease to be binding from the time when, in a war between the Contracting Parties, one of the belligerents is joined by a non-Contracting Power.

Anyway, just some trivia there....

 

[Oohrah]

Yep, head shots!!!! Home Defense...Shotgun Have a Bushy with expanding
and hollow points bullets, but it would not be my first choice for HD weapon

 

[Sunray]

"...Good idea?..." Nope. If he ever has to shoot and either misses or the bullet goes right though the criminal and goes on to hit anything or anybody, your buddy is responsible. Anyway, body armour that will stop a rifle bullet is very expensive and heavy stuff. Criminals who break into homes don't have it.

 

[Groucho_]

I say replace them with soft points and he's in good shape. The soft points are better ballistically (IMHO) in close range and are less likely to over penetrate. They will mushroom in the bad guy's flesh and cause more damage than a steel penetrating round (complete over penetration will rely on insanguination for the kill). Should they happen to penetrate they will leave one heck of an exit wound in your bad guy and will never in a million years make it through your brick walls.

edit: There are also hollow point bullets available in .223. I do not know how accurate they are or if they are reliable, but you could always buy a box or two and test them out. A hollow point will cause more stopping power and general damage, and will also break up in the bad guy's body virtually eliminating the risk of over penetration.

 

[possum]

They are currently using the Mk262Mod1 in mayn areas which is an Open Tip Match bullet (hollow point).

oh really? and where can i pick up my 210rd of that?

 

[stubbicatt]

The Hornady TAP ammo is a very good choice in this role. Tests conducted by "experts" and some impromptu tests I have done myself confirm this choice.

As far as body armor, it covers chest cavity. The exposed parts of the body are still quite susceptible to TAP type ammo. A pelvic cradle hit will likely incapacitate the attacker long enough to put one in his noggin.

For this scenario we are talking very short distances here.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Actually they are not. They are currently using the Mk262Mod1 in mayn areas which is an Open Tip Match bullet (hollow point).

OTM has a pin hole opening in the nose. It's not a hollow point round at all.

oh really? and where can i pick up my 210rd of that?

According to the internet, you've been shooting it for years now, since green tip only cures cancer and does chiropractic adjustments when you shoot people with it .

As far as body armor, it covers chest cavity. The exposed parts of the body are still quite susceptible to TAP type ammo. A pelvic cradle hit will likely incapacitate the attacker long enough to put one in his noggin.

And a round or two into body armor will likely put a guy on the ground feeling a little woozy and out of it. Unless the guy in question is worried about bunches of guys in body armor storming the house (in which case, maybe the meth lab was a bad idea . . .), most centerfire rifle rounds will suffice to take the fight out of a single guy at point blank range even if they won't punch through a vest and plates.

 

[blackhawk2000]

The Black Hills Mk262Mod1 mentioned is a better choice. Any rifle round is going to defeat soft armor. If they are wearing plates, well your friend needs to aim for the head no matter what .223 he is using.

 

[geojap]

For home defense, I use a few Ruger .357 Mag revolvers and some SigSauer .40 S&W pistols conveniently placed in the house. I'd rather have a pistol inside my house because most shots would be from 5'-20' and I don't want to try and maneuver a rifle through doorways and hallways.

If I felt compelled to use one of my AKs (or an AR, if I had it), I could make it work OK, I'm sure.

 

[PPGMD]

I would use Hornady LE TAP 75gr if I were using any 223 for home defense.

 

[MCgunner]

If you don't like handguns, get a shotgun. The rifle is for the open spaces, not the crowded subdivision or even the burbs IMHO. If you HAVE to have a rifle, get a Camp Carbine in .45 or 9mm.

 

[PPGMD]

OTM has a pin hole opening in the nose. It's not a hollow point round at all.

Yep, the hollow point on Serria Match King rounds is for aerodynamics not for expansion. IIRC only soldiers with SPRs get issued the Mk262 ammo the rest are issued M855 to simplify the supply line.

 

[TexasRifleman]

OTM has a pin hole opening in the nose. It's not a hollow point round at all.

See you are in the word game now, but my point is that it isn't necessary to play words games anyway since the Hague convention doesn't outlaw hollow points.

I guarantee you that if you took the average shooter off the street and showed them the OTM bullet they would say it was a hollow point.

And a round or two into body armor will likely put a guy on the ground feeling a little woozy and out of it

You need to go watch the Hollywood bank robbery footage again. That CLEARLY did not happen.

The rifle is for the open spaces, not the crowded subdivision or even the burbs IMHO.

Well that's a different thread entirely, and there have been plenty of them. Many of us believe that the carbine is THE home defense weapon, we're in this thread simply to help a guy decide what ammo to use. I think you will find that the most respected defensive firearms instructors and experts will go with the carbine as well.


And of course no one has mentioned the Oracle yet. Always a good place to start.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Unless his interior walls are brick also, I would not be slinging ss109 indoors especially if not home alone.

As said TAP would be a good way to go. There is a cost/bennefit ratio to consider and at close ranges if someone was truly wearing serious body armor any 5.56 round (save actual not-ever-seen AP designed for the SAW) would do little to the plate.

As for 5.56 for HD--I've had a change of heart about it; I think it is a viable option for lots of people for reasons of familiarity, etc.