Stick up at gas station scenario

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neviander

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I had a harrowing thought the other day while I was getting ready to check out at a gas station. Say I'm walking up to the cash register and the person just walking in whips out a pistol and starts demanding cash from the cashier?....

I travel a lot in a company vehicle all day, every day, so I can't carry while working; but I got to thinking, if I was carrying, what would I do?

I thought:

I could reach for my own IWB weapon and showdown.
I could stand there like a statue.
I could run behind the closest cover, pull my gun and shout an ultimatum to the BG.

I guess my question is what would be the most successful course of action in such close, public quarters? or rather, what has proven to be the most successful thing to do in such a situation?

I realize gaging the situation is huge to consider, is he pointing the gun at me, is he paying attention to me, so on and so forth.

Has anyone ever been in a situation like this?
 
It's definitely been gamed out here. MANY times. Its one of the more realistic settings for the "involve yourself yes/no" type dilemma.

As for what I would do, it's situational whether or not I go statue or drop the thug without warning, but I don't see much gain in letting a violent criminal know that you're there and a threat. Figure his chance to walk out of the situation unhurt was before he posed a lethal force threat to someone else.
 
What you always need to think about in a situation like that is whether the guy you didn't notice browsing among the snacks or soft drinks might be the tailgunner for a crew that had planned a robbery of the place in advance (assume crew= getaway driver/outside security, robber and tailgunner at minimum).

"You never know how you look until you get your picture took..."

lpl/nc
 
What you always need to think about in a situation like that is whether the guy you didn't notice browsing among the snacks or soft drinks might be the tailgunner for a crew that had planned a robbery of the place in advance
True, I hadn't thought of that
 
What you always need to think about in a situation like that is whether the guy you didn't notice browsing among the snacks or soft drinks might be the tailgunner for a crew that had planned a robbery of the place in advance (assume crew= getaway driver/outside security, robber and tailgunner at minimum).

Yeah sure, they are all gonna split the 100 bucks or so in the till.

That makes 33 dollars and 33 cents each. Bruno demands the extra penny.

C'mon, its a gas station not a bank.
 
And if you're wrong? You get dead. Once you get dead, they shoot everyone else.

Like they say: The first one's reeeaaal expensive - the rest are all free.

Biker
 
And if you're wrong?

Well, it could also be that there are more than 10 heavily armed ex military turned criminals surrounding the gas station with plans to make it the location of a waco-esque standoff with uncle sam too.

What then?

It's highly unlikely at best, just like there being 3 criminals all working together to rob the quickie mart.

It just ain't a likely scenario. Possible, yes. Likely, no. In such a situation you don't have time to sort out the possibilities, you just run like hell.

It's like sending two guys into a store to steal a candybar.

In the criminal world, convenience store robberies are the bottom of the barrel. 95% of em are solo jobs I bet.

One way or the other, I ain't intervening to save dude x behind the counter, he oughta just give up the cash. He wouldn't be looking out for me.

I'm cutting out to the nearest/safest possible exit.....but then again those heavily armed ex military guys are posted out back.........
 
I thought:

I could reach for my own IWB weapon and showdown.
I could stand there like a statue.
I could run behind the closest cover, pull my gun and shout an ultimatum to the BG.

I would get behind cover especially if the perp isn't watching you closely. Give yourself some space to size up the situation. If he is watching you, put your hands up as if terrified, but try to move back behind cover (one of the aisles). Not every perp is thinking he has to control the room like a US Marshall.

I know a lot of guys here think they would react like Travis Bickle in "Taxi Driver" (Robert DeNiro) in the convenience store robbery, but you also want to think of the legal ramifications (on top of the tactical, if you miss or hit an innocent person). I'm not sure the local police and media would give you a medal and praise for shooting a gas station robber. :scrutiny:

I think it comes down to an on-the-spot assessment of the perp and his intentions (which obviously isn't easy). Is he directly threatening you or other customers? Is he highly agitated/emotional and seems like he is going to shoot? You have to make a decision on the spot... and you'll have to defend and explain your decision in front of a grand jury later. :uhoh:

Yes I think it is good to mentally prepare for what you would do in such a situation, but anyone who secretly hopes for this scenario (and yes there are CCW holders who fantasize about it) is a fool. JMO
 
Yeah sure, they are all gonna split the 100 bucks or so in the till.

That makes 33 dollars and 33 cents each. Bruno demands the extra penny.

C'mon, its a gas station not a bank.

Tell that to the THREE kids who mugged me for about thirty bucks. At the trial of one of the kids he admitted that his cut was only about $8 of it.

Around these parts, having two or more people in on a simple robbery of a gas station or fast food isn't uncommon. Heck, the local pizza joint was robbed by three people (I know this since one of my best friends turned out to be one of them).
 
Or maybe they're not looking for cash - they're looking for thrills... And later one of 'em kills another one because he thinks he got shorted a penny...

I'd hang back, if possible, and if unnoticed, and if all that happens is take the money and run, fine. But if it looks like bad stuff is gonna happen (i.e., "Get back to the office"), time to shoot.
 
Say I'm walking up to the cash register and the person just walking in whips out a pistol and starts demanding cash from the cashier?

I would tell him or her to wait in line just like everybody else. Cutting in is just plain rude. He/she can rob the place after I've paid my bill and left.
 
I Agree with Lee Lapin and Biker.

Cemeteries are full of dead heroes.
So what is one's responsibility, legally and morally?

All by yourself or is there a teenager the punks are thinking naughty thoughts about and there is stockroom in the back , or a mom and small child?

No gun. So? Gun is not the only tool, just one of the tools.

When you pulled in, what did you see, not look at instead really "see".
Was there a car with a driver parked in front, and one dude standing out front, and he had a cigarette and cell phone?

These are signals.
Driver with engine running "says" driver is waiting.
The one out front, the lookout.
When he asked for a light from a person that exited the store, did he fiddle and fumble to get the filter end into mouth, looked uncomfortable in holding it, his hands went away from his face and could not get draw, and coughed a bit when he/she did.

Lots of ladies are part of these teams, and while folks may not give a light to a male, they will a female.
Some folks are not smokers, a smoker can tell.
Getting a light, allows them to get into your circle of death.

They are not only reading the lot, they are reading you, and how you are leaving the inside as another member, or members of the team are inside.

-"Gotta couple of youths inside that look drifty, you might not want to go inside ma'am."

-"I don't feel real good about two youths in that store, I am going to call 911 and wait in my car over there to watch".

-"Yes, nice day and you are welcome for the light".

First two responses tell the watcher to use cell phone to alert other team members inside.

No call , coast is clear, take down the mark.
Cell phone to inform, coast is clear and take down the mark.


You are inside, no gun.
"Read the Room".
SouthNarc uses the term "3+1" in referencing signals one is about to have their butt kicked, or something is about to come down.

The quicker one picks up on a signal, the quicker one can use tools in the toolbox.
I like ADEE, for civilians , instead of AOJ(P).

See one does not know what these youths are.
NTI refers to Impressive, Expressive, Impressive/Expressive and Killing to Violent Criminal Actor (VCA)Motive Models.

You might have punk that has the wrong ammunition for his gun, or you might have one with training he got from his bud that was in the Army and he is quite good with a Glock .40.
Then again, one might be faced with one, that watching folks die is what they do, and they are not affected one bit, by someone producing a gun, not even shotgun, or rifle and firing shots their way.


The potato chip display only offers concealment, the stack of cases of beer offer "more" cover and the Bottled Drinks offer even more.

Criminals use these, why can't a Good Guy? Glass Deflects, and glass with liquid deflect and resists even better.

That walk in cooler has glass door, and employees are trained to use that for cover and concealment.
They were taught this by Cops, that in some areas of the country, actually were in a Stop&Rob, in those coolers, behind the bottled beer, with a shotgun some years ago.
Dead Serious.
The sign outside and inside stated there "MIGHT be an armed Cop in the store, and you are taking a chance arm robbing this joint".

It took one time, for some punks to stop 00 buck shot and die, and the word was out.
Punks tried it again, and failed.
Very quickly, these places were not the preferred places of punks.
There were no armed robberies in such places for some time.

So a person without a gun, might be wise to read the room, and know signals, as it often is the case, there are more than one punk, instead a team.

Add, if these punks are making their bones, there are those criminals, also near, to watch this dance go down.

Serious dance, as when your dance card is punched , you get dead.

No shame to drop a 40 oz bottle of Root Beer, to distract and throw criminals off the loop and haul butt out the back setting off Exit alarm and everybody knows that alarm is going off.
Punks, other good guys in the store, at the gas pump , Attention is Attention.
Clerk, his/her responsibility to read the signal "hey, get down/ get out, we have a distraction!"

Free Tip:
Stop & Rob's often have floor plans that force customers to enter, and have to walk around displays, to access cashier and exit.

Watch those doors, and who is doing what.

Tip 2: Notice the cases of beer and where stacked, that is not just ease of sale, it is for cover for incoming bullets to protect clerk.

Tip 3: Use the mirrors in the store, criminals do...
 
I once read a piece by Elmer Kieth in which he told about how people in the Old West knew enough to hit the floor during a saloon gun fight. That may be your best bet.

I am a second shift convenience store cashier, and I have a gun. My plan is to give a robber the cash if I can, and avoid shooting, bloodshed, and bad feelings in general. If, however, it looks like it is going to be a murder/robbery, I may be inclined to draw and shoot.

You people are assuming that there are only TWO guns in the store. There may be THREE, and if you are pulling a gun or shooting, I may mistake you for a robber in all that confusion. I may shoot you, too.

Now I am not trying to be sarcastic, here. But you have to consider that while you are sizing up all of the BG's, the clerk may be doing the same. He may see a fellow acting nervously and suspiciously. You see the same thing. You start reaching under your jacket at the same time as he does. The clerk sees two nervous guys handling guns under their jackets. They both become targets in the clerk's eyes.

I try to stay in Condition Yellow at all times while on the job. There are robbers that have been shot by cashiers in NH in the past. I watch what people do and how they act while in the store. If I see two guys fidgiting with guns (or suspect they have guns) under their jackets, I will have my hand on my own gun and be in Condition Red in no time. As your gun comes out, mine may too.

Just thought that I'd throw that into the mix, as you other fellows missed it. At one place that I worked in the past, we had three employees that carried guns while on register.
 
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Dismantler, your post made me think of the scene in Raising Arizona where the store clerk whips out his big arse revolver and proceeds to fire at the get away car, priceless.

Good points though, although I hope the clerk wouldn't fire at the guy pointing his gun at the guy pointing his gun at you, while yelling, PUT THE GUN DOWN!!
 
It's just as likely that someone will try to hijack your car while you're pumping gas, and watching the $ total. Your car's worth more than the cash in the register, and the keys are probably in it. What do you do in that case? You're out in the open. will you see him/them approaching and recognize the threat?
 
40 car jackings in 30 days...85 since Feb.

Currently threads are sharing here on THR, TFL and elsewhere, about the attempted car jacking of Mr. Todd, age 64 , in Memphis.

TFL has a link to the gas station video

Mr. Todd was armed, and the suspects, were in a vehicle stolen the evening before, and one produced a shotgun.

I and others around here on THR have viewed what video there is.

I see signals and my gut says Mr. Todd read these signals and knew early, repeat early, he was a mark.

There is a lot one can learn from that small bit of vid cam.

Look it up and view it for yourself.

I am, and will continue to interact with some about this event, to learn from.

Memphis news says 40 CJ's in 30 days and 85 since Feb.

This is happening all over the country, not just Memphis.
 
The scenario I put forth was not hypothetical, it happened to me. I recognized the threat early enough to discourage the bad guys. They left, I left.
 
I was an actor in a force-on-force a couple yrs ago. I was a store clerk behind the counter. CCW customer inside. Problem just outside the door, fight, angry voices...whatever. CCW drew and covered the door. I hollered "Gun! He's got a gun!!" three times. Finally just shot the good guy. He had a BAD case of tunnel vision!

Bob
 
Aye, pumping gas can be a very easy vulnerable situation to get into if you let yourself. I know every time I go to the pump, I'm often looking at that $ sign, and thinking about gas prices and mileage. More recently, I've tried to keep a 360 awareness with both eyes and ears.

-Sans Authoritas
 
Well, here's what I'd do.

Let's say the bad guy enters through the double door, and I'm at the counter in line or about to pay. He's waving around a chrome plated Beretta around like a party flag mumbling (at high volume) threats and demands.

My first response would be to not move quickly, as that may draw his attention. Hopefully I'm not standing right next to him. I would slowly turn so that I can draw from concealment without being seen.

As soon as he sees or notices me, I'd do a tactical rolling dive behind the Frito-Lay display. As the bullets fly around me, destroying innocent Hostess cakes and obliterating bags of Doritos, I would assume a tactical crouch to marginalize my profile.

I would then carefully index my H&K USP Tactical on the tango's body, center of mass, and methodically execute a Mozambique drill - as I've practiced so many times before, two to the chest and then one to the head. I would trust my protection to the Level IIIa vest I wear daily, and as mall security, it has never let me down before.


... just kidding. :) On all of that.

Realistically, I think it's pretty unlikely for a hold up to occur at a gas station during 9-5 hours, as there's likely to be a number of people present. They don't want attention, they just want money. They're also more likely to get more money at night (after the night drop/shift change but near the end of the next shift).

If you stick to the big gas stations, you're also more likely to have that problem, I think, as they're probably more likely to comply with business policy with regard to things like "only $50 in till at any time" (though mostly it's an outright lie).

As for what I'd do, I can't say, but I do know that I try and quarter myself towards the doors of any establishment I'm in, so that I can at least see what's coming at me. I hate how most gas stations are laid out, with the door directly opposite the cash register.

It's something I've given thought, and one thing I can say for certain is that if the guy has a gun, and I'm in the store, I have to assume he knows I'm there. I also have to assume he intends to use the gun, because hey, he's waving the thing around and making threats. I'd consider the food isles as concealment and nothing more, and I would not want to see the person working the counter come to harm.
 
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