'Tactical Reload' and racking the slide.

[Zak Smith]

Tactical Response also teaches to rack the slide after a tac reload.

I can see several reasons to do so:

1. It guarantees 100% a round will be chambered
2. You always do the same action after seating a mag (rack slide - gross motor movement)

They may have other reasons that I did not absorb during the classs.

The way I figure, if I am still in the fight, I will shoot to slidelock while moving (hopefully to cover) and I will do an emergency speed reload as quickly as possible, if it's possible.

I never plan to "tac reload" (IDPA style) when I'm still in the fight-- I will be delivering rounds on target or getting more bullets in the gun if it runs empty, while moving.

When talking about fire & move with teams, I can see a place for a tac reload while behind cover and other team-mates are shooting.

-z

 

[1911 guy]

Don't get it.

Maybe I like to keep things too simple, but I don't get it. The purpose of a "tactical" reload is to get a full mag into a weapon that is partially empty. This means firing may be emminent or you wouldn't be worried about it. Why add another step to a simple process? Drop the mag, pound a fresh one in, pick up the dropped if you've got time. Yes, this, that or the other may happen, but I might also hit the lottery or be struck by lightning. Know your weapon. Disregard manufacturer commonality training. Train with what YOU carry. A chamber loaded indicator can show "loaded" when you've got a stuck case. Are you going to attempt to clear your weapon or say "hey, it's supposed to be loaded!" Know your weapon, know what may happen to your weapon, don't worry about modifying your training because of what might happen to someone elses weapon.

 

[Dave Williams]

Put me down in the camp that racks the slide every time a mag is inserted.

Dave Williams

 

[BothellBob]

Not my game, and I hope to never be in a situation where it's a real concern; but from a theoretical point of view:
1-When you break open the top strap all the cases are ejected by the extractor star. 2-You refill the cylinder from your speedloader. 3-Swing the barrel back until the keeper locks the backstrap into position.
What's to rack??? For that matter, what's a slide???
-BothellBob

 

[Jeff22]

tac reload

One of the reasons that people sometimes mis-understand where the tac reload/reload with retention fits in the greater scheme of things is from a misunderstanding of IDPA rules or (most likely) having had the experience of shooting some poorly designed stages at an IDPA match.

The tac reload is to be accomplished behind cover during a "break in the action". If there is no cover, or there is no "break in the action" then the tac reload is not the proper response. It's a specialized technique meant for a specific set of circumstances.

There is no such thing as a "speed tac reload".

 

[El Tejon]

Bah, that's because you never seen ME do it.

BTW, I also have Speed Re-holstering down as well.

 

[Zach S]

Only with the G17 I owned, it didnt slidelock half of the time because my thumb rode against the slide stop.

My 1911s slidelock every time, so I dont bother, although I do tac reloads pretty often. Seven rounds is a lot easier to keep up with than 17 (or 33).

 

[Tim Burke]

Took a class where the instructor advocated this; I didn't care for the concept, but I tried to do it his way for the class. My gun reliably locks back, so I thought it was superfluous. About 15 minutes after I started doing it his way I racked the slide with a loaded chamber, and created a malfunction in a gun that almost nevere malfunctions. I took that as a sign.

 

[joab]

Part of the problem in this thread is a misunderstanding of "Tac Reload"

If you're at slide lock and have to reload that is not a tac reload that's just a reload hopefully a speed reload.

With a tactical reload you still have rounds left in your mag, but feel that you are gonna need a lot more than you have and have a chance to correct the problem from behind cover

ie:
You have chased a bad guy into a building that you must now go into for whatever reason
In all the confusion you don't know if you shot 5 or 6 times and you don't feel lucky punk so you top off

 

[JohnKSa]

You have chased a bad guy into a building that you must now go into for whatever reason. In all the confusion you don't know if you shot 5 or 6 times and you don't feel lucky punk so you top off.

Right. I agree with the idea. However, I DON'T agree with the idea of juggling two magazines at once to do the reload. If there's a threat in the building, it MIGHT come back out.

So, even in that case, I would do a standard speed reload to minimize the time that the gun didn't have a magazine in it. THEN, once my gun was topped off, I would reassess the situation to see if it was safe (and worthwhile) to retrieve the (possibly) partially full magazine. After all, it may very well be that the round in the chamber was the last round and that the magazine I just dumped was empty.

I'm not going to risk a slow reload that leaves my gun empty for longer than necessary when there is still a threat in the general vicinity AND when I might be doing it to save an empty magazine.

The only times I might reconsider would be:

1. If dropping the mag were highly likely to render it useless or unretrievable (standing over water/mud/vat of acid/etc.) and I was very sure that the mag had more than a round or two left in it.
2. If I were very sure that I was in very little danger for long enough to do the reload. (e.g. Good cover with an armed partner keeping alert and ready to fire.)

 

[joab]

My comment wasn't meant to address the speed at which you do a tac reload, in a gunfight everything you do should be as fast as possible I suppose.
I was commenting on the remarks about there being no need to rack the slide because it should be at slide lock, which would not be the case in a typical tac reload situation

 

[Jeff22]

the tactical reload

And the tactical reload works best if you have big hands and thin magazines. If you have big hands and you're running a single stack pistol, tac reloads work pretty well. (I personally have big hands and can tac reload most anything smaller than a 37mm cannon).

I have discovered from experience training people at work at the PD 5 ft tall females with little tiny hands can't tac reload a .40 cal Sig with a double column magazine . . . thus they were introduced to the concept of the "reload with retention". Which they still didn't understand, either how to perform the drill or when it might be tactically appropriate.

 

[Tim Burke]

I was commenting on the remarks about there being no need to rack the slide because it should be at slide lock, which would not be the case in a typical tac reload situation

I don't see where anyone is confusing tactical reloads to speed reloads. If you are doing a speed reload, presumably the slide is locked back, and you have to do some sort of manipulation to drop the slide. The whole reason we are discussing racking the slide after a tactical reload is because of the possibility that there might be some confusion about whether or not there is a round in the chamber. If the chamber is full, you shouldn't need to rack the slide. If the chamber is empty, you should be at slide lock, in which case you shouldn't be doing a tactical reload at all. We aren't confused, but the technique is based on the assumption we are.

 

[joab]

I don't see where anyone is confusing tactical reloads to speed reloads.

My gun reliably locks back, so I thought it was superfluous.

Only with the G17 I owned, it didnt slidelock half of the time because my thumb rode against the slide stop.

If you are worried about your slide not locking back after the last shot in the magazine, then you either need a new pistol or you need to learn how to hold it.

As long as your gun has a slide hold open on empty the answer is NO! You will know when your out

Only on the cheap handguns that don't have a slide hold open device.

We aren't confused, but the technique is based on the assumption we are.

Huh?

 

[Tim Burke]

My gun reliably locks back, so I thought it was superfluous.

Because my gun reliably locks back when empty, I know that when I do a tactical reload there is already a round chambered, so I don't feel the need to rack the slide.

Only with the G17 I owned, it didnt slidelock half of the time because my thumb rode against the slide stop.

Because my gun does not reliably lock back when empty, when I do a tactical reload I don't know that there is already a round chambered, so I do feel the need to rack the slide.

If you are worried about your slide not locking back after the last shot in the magazine, then you either need a new pistol or you need to learn how to hold it.

You see, you only need to worry about racking the slide after tactical reloads if you can't trust your gun to lock open. One solution is to rack the slide; the other is to get the gun fixed so that it locks back reliably when empty.

As long as your gun has a slide hold open on empty the answer is NO! You will know when your out

And if you are doing a tactical reload, you aren't out, and therefore you don't need to rack the slide.

Only on the cheap handguns that don't have a slide hold open device.

Since you don't know that there is a chambered round just because the slide is down, rack the slide to be sure.

We aren't confused, but the technique is based on the assumption we are.

We aren't confused, but apparently we have confused you.

 

[innerpiece9]

Amen Tim Burke!

on a side note.. perhaps some of you folks should try and have a mag designated for dropping.... serious... If you had, youd know the telling sound of youre empty, partial, or full mag hitting multiple surfaces.... as you train in realistic reloads with it..

ip9

 

[joab]

We aren't confused, but apparently we have confused you.

Tis possible that I over or under analyzed.
Either way I see your point

 

[TEXASTACTICAL]

What is being confused by some in this thread are proper terms.
Slidelock (emegency reload), Speed reload and tactical reload are three seperate types of reloads.

The one that is being confused most is "speed reload". A speed reload is done when you want to top off your gun as fast as possible. When you have fired a few rounds and the slide is forward with a round in the chamber, eject the partial mag and insert a full mag.

 

[JohnKSa]

TEXASTACTICAL,

Thanks for the terminology correction. I've probably bobbled the terms a few times since I didn't know the proper definitions.

So my position is (using the correct terminology) that I think the primary technique should be an emergency reload, with a speed reload being the only other technique taught.

If one desires to retain the mag after a speed reload, he should reassess the situation after the speed reload to see if it is worthwhile/possible/practical to bend down and retrieve the magazine.

I can't see the value of a "tactical" reload as a trained/practiced technique. It's a technique that provides more chances for mistakes and bobbles than an emergency or speed reload and turns the gun into a single shot (at best) for longer than necessary.

In the VERY unusual situation where good cover is available, AND the possibility of a threat immediately engaging is minimal, AND it is highly desirable to retain a magazine BUT dropping it, reassessing and then retrieving is not at all feasible THEN I can see doing a "tactical" reload. I don't see it at all as the kind of thing that ought to be mandated in any sort of match that touts itself as practical or as a technique that should be practiced as a matter of course.

I do see some value in racking the slide after any sort of reload--just to keep the procedures as similar as possible.