The F.B.I. Knocked on my door yesterday

[JohnKSa]

Jeff,

I'm not nearly so concerned with talking to a uniformed officer (thus the comment about asking for a local uniformed officer) as I would be about having someone show up in plainclothes with a "badge" demanding that I open the door. That was really the original gist of the thread, I thought...

I think that your other answers amounted to the following. Unless I'm being sought as a suspect in a crime, I'm not breaking the law by taking any of the approaches I described in my former post. Is that correct?

 

[Jeff White]

John,
None of your approaches to the problem would get you charged with obstruction or resisting if you were actually a suspect. Like I said, the plainclothes officers probably wouldn't leave until a uniformed officer arrived if you were the suspect, but I doubt (I know I wouldn't) they'd have a problem with waiting right there with you until a uniform showed up before proceeding.

Contrary to popluar opinion around here, most of us would just as soon do things the easy way. But when the subject we need (to talk to, arrest etc.) insists on it, we'll do things the hard way.

No officer that I know of is going to get upset if you take reasonable care to protect yourself. That includes things like verifying identity. Of course you can't take that to extremes. If I'm standing in front of you in uniform, and we're in the town I work in and my marked car is parked in front of your house, I'm probably not going to be too obliging if you tell me you think I'm an imposter and you're not going with me. Even though vodka7 suggested that that wouldn't be sufficient proof that an officer was who he claimed to be. Of course at that point he'd have to think it was a very elaborate ruse to kidnap him, because the backup I called for would most likely come from the sheriff's dept or the state police.

I just can't imagine why so many members here think that every contact they have with the police is going to consist of them going to jail on trumped up charges. I think it may come from the fact that most people have no contact with us. They read all the horror stories in books like Unintended Consequences, watched Serpico, have every season of The Shield on DVD and were as horrified as the rest of us over the lack of accountability for Waco and Ruby Ridge on the federal side that they think that those things are the way everything works instead of the abombinations that they are.

Jeff

 

[Firethorn]

I'll chime in as one more vote for cooperating with the police. You don't have to let them in unless they have a warrant, but as the old saying goes: 'You catch more flies with honey than vinegar'.

Generally speaking, you cooperate with the police and they'll work with you. Being a bit paranoid is fine, but stepping out and talking with them generally won't hurt, and is the quickest method to get the cops out of your face and off your property without you collecting tickets and court appearances.

The majority of cops are just doing their job, trying to keep their community safe by catching the bad guys.

Just don't let them in until you put away the pot and air out the smell.

 

[IndianaDean]

On The FBI Files on Discovery Channel tonight, they had a case where a gun dealer and his family were murdered by two men masquerading as FBI agents in Arkansas back in 1994. They were waiting for him inside his house however, and he never got a chance to draw a weapon.

 

[roo_ster]

A Lotta Heat, Some Light

I can't understand the paranoia that permeates through this thread. What kind of skeletons are in THR members closets that makes them think every time the police knock on your door, they are there to shoot your cat, beat up your family and haul you off to the gulag?

Let me preface my response with the following:
1. Any skeletons I have, have been exhumed, gone over with a magnifying glass, documented in numerous gov't databases...and found to be not worth sweating over. This occurs periodically.
2. I understand that police procedure has undergone a sea change in the past 40 years. That what in the past was SOP, nowadays would be considered unprofessional, unconcionable, and illegal.
3. I am a solid citizen. I mow my yard, go to work, take care of my family, and try to be polite to all I meet, much less commit a crime against them. When I have been asked, I gave my cooperation to the local police and the federales, too. They seemed like decent guys doing their job.

Nevertheless, many solid citizens are more skittish than ever in their dealings with agents of the state. Why might that be?
1. Gov't has its mitts into every possible crevace of life.
Nothing is so ho-hum that a law can not and has not been made concerning it. Not even 3.5 gal flush toilets are picayune enough to avoid scrutiny from the world's most august legislative body.
2. The sheer number of fed, state, county, city, & other gov't entity laws.
I bet I violate a baker's dozen by lunchtime without even trying. I bet you do, too. Luckily, there are no gov't agents on every streetcorner with encyclopaedic minds and an unexhaustable pad for citations to nail us for those 13 infractions.
3. Is it paranoia if they really are out to get you?
I am not asking this in a personal, "They're out to get ME!" sort of way. I have no delusions of elevated profile, delusions of persecution, or delusions of far-flung LEO conspiracies. What I mean is, some agent of the gov't is out there with the duty and authority to enforce every one of the endlessly-increasing body of law. If somebody tries to sell me a 3.5 gal flush toilet, some LEO has the mission and authority to enforce the law against that. If I buy a 3.5 gal flush toilet in Mexico and bring it across the border, some gov't agent is tasked with enforcing te law against that.

If some citizen resists such enforcement, "I can't believe this bullhockey! You're seriously trying to confiscate the American Standard 3.5gal flush toilet I just bought?!?" We know how it is going to end up if Mr. Needsfiber refuses to relinquish his newly-acquired potty: Authoritative tones, harsh language, guns, thumpings, arrest, incarceration, charges, lotsa dollars spent on attorneys, and likely more incarceration in a place with toilets nobody wants in their bathroom.

All over a 3.5gal flush toilet.

If all laws were enforced every single time a LEO witnessed an infraction, I do believe it would look, walk, & quack like a police state. It would be in our face 24/7, no respite.

About the only things that keep that from happening are:
1. The lack of manpower to adequately enforce every law every time it is violated
2. The basic decency of most LEOs.

May we never have enough funds to adequately enforce our laws. May we always be blessed with decent folks who know what is right and wrong doing that work.

 

[F4GIB]

I just can't imagine why so many members here think that every contact they have with the police is going to consist of them going to jail on trumped up charges. I think it may come from the fact that most people have no contact with us.

Yes. If I weren't a lawyer, I'd never have had any contact with a police officer in over 5 decades of life except 2 or 3 tickets and one accident. Outside of professional contacts (not including those mentioned in the previous sentence), I've never been so much as touched by a police officer.

However I have seen the police at work for 30 years. I frequently don't like what I've seen.

The general public gets to see the same callous disregard of the citizenry on COPS every night. They don't like what they see. Pushing around marginal folks is OK only so long as the rest of the population is ignorant of the conduct and has no idea that the same thing might happen to THEM. Once they learn that they'll be treated no different, the resistance rises. When you are dealing with people of above par intelligence and no arrogance, they listen to their rights and often assert them successfully. They think, correctly, there is a Fourth Amendment, why not use it (as any police officer would do). They know that, when you might be a suspect, there is no upside to cooperation.

Besides, after watching a few episodes of COPS, would you invite a cop into your house?

********************************
RE Jeff White's post#87.
NOTE that both offenses are very narrowly defined, specific intent offenses (the hardest kind to prove in court) - one requiring "knowingly resists or obstructs [active verbs which generally DON'T include silence]... any authorized act" and the other requiring that "with intent to ... obstruct the prosecution ... he knowingly commits any of the following acts: ... [/u]Possessing knowledge[/u] material to the subject at issue, he leaves the State or conceals himself [NOT refuses to answer questions]." IMHO, one one cannot violate either statute by merely refusing to answer questions. Accord: Weathington, 394 N.E.2d 1059 (Ill. App. 1979)

You do not have to converse with the police just because they want to talk to you. You can just walk away (that's why Miranda only applies to custodial interrogations BTW). If the DA agrees, the officers can get a subpoena (which you can challenge in court) which may force you to answer non-incriminatory questions. No subpoena, no duty to answer. On the other hand (as Martha Stewart learned), you can't lie to federal officers (and state officers in most, probably all, states). You can say nothing at all.

The Cope case (Ill. App.), cited in an earlier post, disposes of the claim that one can violate either statute by refusing to allow a warrantless entry. You can't.

 

[NineseveN]

I just can't imagine why so many members here think that every contact they have with the police is going to consist of them going to jail on trumped up charges. I think it may come from the fact that most people have no contact with us. They read all the horror stories in books like Unintended Consequences, watched Serpico, have every season of The Shield on DVD and were as horrified as the rest of us over the lack of accountability for Waco and Ruby Ridge on the federal side that they think that those things are the way everything works instead of the abombinations that they are.

Jeff

Perhpas because of the seperation from the rest of us citizens most cops go through shortly after or duinrg the academy. Every LEO I know has explained this phenomenon, care to give me your take on it?

Most average folks break a law or two, sometimes without even knowing it, since ignorance of the law is no defense, it does tend to generate a feeling of insecurity when dealing with LEO's. I mean, you might find out that I steal HBO after all...or maybe that my wife has had 6 DUI's before I met her and I refuse to give up my firearms or the mother of my children.

There are some BS laws on the books that many of us try not to break but you know what, if they outlaw my rifles, I won't be giving them up...now that interaction with a cop I barely know becomes a liability.

For the record, I am not married, I don't even have cable, and I have a large amount of LEO friends, and as much as I trust them, if the day comes where my guns are outlawed, I will surely be sweating bullets over which one of those friends doesn't see it my way and turns me in or comes for my guns. Scarry stuff. Likely? No, but neither were a lot of things that have gone down in this country over the last 10 years.

Any practical advice on that one?

 

[SomeKid]

For the record, I am not married, I don't even have cable, and I have a large amount of LEO friends, and as much as I trust them, if the day comes where my guns are outlawed, I will surely be sweating bullets over which one of those friends doesn't see it my way and turns me in or comes for my guns. Scarry stuff. Likely? No, but neither were a lot of things that have gone down in this country over the last 10 years.

Any practical advice on that one?

Practical advice? Revolt. If they are decent people at all, they will toss their brass badges on the ground and side with you. If they turn you in, they definatly are not friends. If they came for them, and try to play the buddy card, they deserve every round in the mag (but only give them a few, they will bring other Gestapo agents).

 

[NineseveN]

Practical advice? Revolt. If they are decent people at all, they will toss their brass badges on the ground and side with you. If they turn you in, they definatly are not friends. If they came for them, and try to play the buddy card, they deserve every round in the mag (but only give them a few, they will bring other Gestapo agents).

I have no desire to be a useless martyr, and I don't think the majority of gun owners would kill cops over gun confiscations (as seen in New Orleans, how many JBTs were sent to their makers over that one?), most still have too mcuh faith in the courts to make it right after the fact to go killing government agents.

It's a tough call, I think we'd all rather avoid the violence...at least I would.

 

[Jeff White]

F4GIB said;

The general public gets to see the same callous disregard of the citizenry on COPS every night. They don't like what they see. Pushing around marginal folks is OK only so long as the rest of the population is ignorant of the conduct and has no idea that the same thing might happen to THEM. Once they learn that they'll be treated no different, the resistance rises. When you are dealing with people of above par intelligence and no arrogance, they listen to their rights and often assert them successfully. They think, correctly, there is a Fourth Amendment, why not use it (as any police officer would do). They know that, when you might be a suspect, there is no upside to cooperation.

I think that COPS is worse then The Shield for the simple reason that it's real. I am always amazed by what officers do on that show. Around here, many of them wouldn't have jobs. I know that only the most entertaining contacts make the show. I also read a post on a police forum by an officer who had the COPS crew filming his dept and he said they encouraged them to make the contacts play better on TV.

I don't know where you work that you think that type of treatment of the public is the norm, but it isn't around here. Oh there are about 3 officers in the county that probably are better suited to another line of work, but for the most part we have a pretty good relationship with most of the people around. That's why I was so taken aback with Molon Labe's post.

NineseveN,
I suppose both sides are to blame for how the police end up hanging with their own kind. I suppose part of it is the fact that there are some things that only someone who has experienced them could understand. You'll find that among combat vets too. Another part of it is that a police officer usually spends most of his professional time dealing with people who are in some kind of trouble and if you don't make a conscious effort to get around normal people, you tend to become clannish.

On the other hand, many of your friends who aren't police officers treat you differently from the minute you put on a badge. They don't think anything about asking you to compromise your integrity by doing little favors...no, I'm not talking about stealing all the dope out of the evidence room, I'm talking about things like running a license plate, or checking the criminal history of a new employeee or boyfriend/girlfriend, to writing a speeding ticket to someone who they don't like, to fixing a ticket. They suddenly intorduce you to their other friends as the cop, as if their other friends will be impressed by the fact they know a cop. You become the defacto legal expert on all issues.

I don't know if friends of lawyers always want free legal advice or friends of doctors always ask about the pain in their knee or lower back when they see them, or the friends of people in the restaurant business always expect a free meal. But I do know that people expect things from their friends who are cops.

And then there is the internet. More police officers have been run off of more gun related sites because of the cop bashing that goes on there then probably any other place online. People there feel free to vent all the things they'd never have the nerve to say in person. So there is another tear in the relationship.

So how are we going to fix it?

Jeff

 

[teknical]

+1 to NineseveN.

Jeff White:

Originally Posted by Jeff White
I just can't imagine why so many members here...

If you're tasked with enforcing the law, and I consider some of the laws that are passed as wrong, then no matter how well-meaning you may be, you're still an "enforcer" of something that is, in part, wrong in my eyes (Analogy: Katrina gun confiscation / Nuremburg Defense). The more laws that are passed that are "wrong," the more resentment you'll see for the police. This group is very pro-rights and with all our rights getting trampled on, don't be surprised to see a lot of the people here be hardliners/taking some kind of stand (even if it's misguided). I used to live in IL, hated the gun laws, and moved (that was my none-too-easy stand). Would I cooperate with you? Yes, but all the while, in the back of my mind, I'd be wondering if I was going to get screwed over later because of it, just like how you would, all the while, be wondering if that bulge was a weapon and if I was going to use it on you...

 

[NineseveN]

F4GIB said;


I think that COPS is worse then The Shield for the simple reason that it's real. I am always amazed by what officers do on that show. Around here, many of them wouldn't have jobs. I know that only the most entertaining contacts make the show. I also read a post on a police forum by an officer who had the COPS crew filming his dept and he said they encouraged them to make the contacts play better on TV.

I don't know where you work that you think that type of treatment of the public is the norm, but it isn't around here. Oh there are about 3 officers in the county that probably are better suited to another line of work, but for the most part we have a pretty good relationship with most of the people around. That's why I was so taken aback with Molon Labe's post.

Knowing that perception is everything, I can see how COPS has a very negative impact on the image of your profession and how that can easily flavor interaction with police officers.

NineseveN,
I suppose both sides are to blame for how the police end up hanging with their own kind. I suppose part of it is the fact that there are some things that only someone who has experienced them could understand. You'll find that among combat vets too. Another part of it is that a police officer usually spends most of his professional time dealing with people who are in some kind of trouble and if you don't make a conscious effort to get around normal people, you tend to become clannish.

On the other hand, many of your friends who aren't police officers treat you differently from the minute you put on a badge. They don't think anything about asking you to compromise your integrity by doing little favors...no, I'm not talking about stealing all the dope out of the evidence room, I'm talking about things like running a license plate, or checking the criminal history of a new employeee or boyfriend/girlfriend, to writing a speeding ticket to someone who they don't like, to fixing a ticket. They suddenly intorduce you to their other friends as the cop, as if their other friends will be impressed by the fact they know a cop. You become the defacto legal expert on all issues.

I don't know if friends of lawyers always want free legal advice or friends of doctors always ask about the pain in their knee or lower back when they see them, or the friends of people in the restaurant business always expect a free meal. But I do know that people expect things from their friends who are cops.

This is no different across any industry I would presume. I know as an IT/technology guy that is sub-contracted through a government agency, not only does everyone come at me with computer problems (hell, anything electronic, people ask me question about their coffee makers of all things) but I also get bizarre requests about satellite data, background checks, surveillance etc...

However, I can see how one being in law enforcement makes things a bit more difficult...some of the things folks ask of you might be construed as unethical, unprofessional or downright illegal. I can see wanting to be distanced from that and I would not be surprised if this is covered in the academy these days with all of the liability issues.

And then there is the internet. More police officers have been run off of more gun related sites because of the cop bashing that goes on there then probably any other place online. People there feel free to vent all the things they'd never have the nerve to say in person. So there is another tear in the relationship.

Everywhere but Glock Talk anyway. I think there are a number of reasons for why cops sometimes get the reception they do. Part of it could just be that clannish aspect of being a cop. It is not uncommon for those that are powerless in one situation to take abuse any freedom they get in another. In other words, citizens can often feel alienated, or perhaps even intimidated by their local law enforcement officers, and they are powerless to do anything, or at least they feel that way. When they find themselves in a mostly anonymous internet medium, well, a lot of pent up anger, fear, rejection or frustration can manifest into what we often see as "cop bashing".

Of course, the edge and chip on the shoulder of many cops and the whole "Thin Blue Line" thing (which does happen, even on the internet, because we're all biased a certain way whether we admit it or not) tends to again pull cops together and push others away.

So how are we going to fix it?

That's a discussion that's gonna take a little more time and thought...you don't happen to have any ideas, do you?

 

[NineseveN]

+1 to NineseveN.

Jeff White:



If you're tasked with enforcing the law, and I consider some of the laws that are passed as wrong, then no matter how well-meaning you may be, you're still an "enforcer" of something that is, in part, wrong in my eyes (Analogy: Katrina gun confiscation / Nuremburg Defense). The more laws that are passed that are "wrong," the more resentment you'll see for the police. This group is very pro-rights and with all our rights getting trampled on, don't be surprised to see a lot of the people here be hardliners/taking some kind of stand (even if it's misguided). I used to live in IL, hated the gun laws, and moved (that was my none-too-easy stand). Would I cooperate with you? Yes, but all the while, in the back of my mind, I'd be wondering if I was going to get screwed over later because of it, just like how you would, all the while, be wondering if that bulge was a weapon and if I was going to use it on you...

Now that's an excellent point. +1

 

[M-Rex]

+1 to NineseveN.

Jeff White:



If you're tasked with enforcing the law, and I consider some of the laws that are passed as wrong, then no matter how well-meaning you may be, you're still an "enforcer" of something that is, in part, wrong in my eyes (Analogy: Katrina gun confiscation / Nuremburg Defense). The more laws that are passed that are "wrong," the more resentment you'll see for the police. This group is very pro-rights and with all our rights getting trampled on, don't be surprised to see a lot of the people here be hardliners/taking some kind of stand (even if it's misguided). I used to live in IL, hated the gun laws, and moved (that was my none-too-easy stand). Would I cooperate with you? Yes, but all the while, in the back of my mind, I'd be wondering if I was going to get screwed over later because of it, just like how you would, all the while, be wondering if that bulge was a weapon and if I was going to use it on you...

So, essentially, you're a 'kill the messenger' type of person. You transfer your anger to the nearest convenient target.

If you're tasked with enforcing the law, and I consider some of the laws that are passed as wrong, then no matter how well-meaning you may be, you're still an "enforcer" of something that is, in part, wrong in my eyes...

I have to ask. Do you trust your mailman? When your mailman delivers a sad letter, or bill collection notice...do you cooperate by accepting the mail, but in the back of your mind wondering if you were going to get screwed later? Do you resent your mailman?

Oh...here's another one. You take your car to the local DMV for registration. The attendent tells you that you must take it to your personal repair shop to have its emissions checked. The mechanic who checks it states there is a new EPA law that you consider "wrong in your eyes". This now makes the DMV attendent and your personal mechanic 'enforcers'. Do you cooperate by accepting the repair, but in the back of your mind wondering if you were going to get screwed later? Do you resent your personal mechanic?

You know...if you get into an arguement with your wife, do you transfer your anger and go outside and abuse your dog?

The more laws that are passed that are "wrong," the more resentment you'll see for the police.

So...instead of directing your anger on the people who make the laws (whom you vote for in each election, by the way, so you have no one to blame but yourself), you throw hissy fits against the people who take up the unappreciated job of enforcing the laws.

Ok. Sure. Makes perfect sense.

 

[NineseveN]

Mechanics and mailmen do not put you in jail.

I see your point, it's just, well, not that good of one to be honest.

 

[Optical Serenity]

So...instead of directing your anger on the people who make the laws (whom you vote for in each election, by the way, so you have no one to blame but yourself), you throw hissy fits against the people who take up the unappreciated job of enforcing the laws.

+1 M-Rex! That is exactly what 95% of the people here do. Its easier to blame LEOs for the issues that politicians are really to be blamed for. In fact, I'd bet theres a good portion of folks on here who probably don't even vote.

 

[YellowLab]

While I was not a Police officer, I was a Corrections Office. Still Law enforcement... just a little easier... everybody REALLY WAS GUILTY.

Common sense is to NOT let the LEO in your home. Its not disrespect, if protecting YOURSELF. The LEO won't... so you better.

If Verizon, PPL or the UPS man comes to the house NO ONE comes inside (or even open the side gate) till I see pic ID.

This is like 4th grade saftey class stuff.

No need to be disrespectful... also no need to bear your sole.

 

[Kermit911]

What if someone didn't answer the door at all? Pretended that they were not even home? or This is a 2nd question now. You looked out the window u saw them they saw you and you just didn't answer the door? Exceptible or not?

 

[M-Rex]

Mechanics and mailmen do not put you in jail.

I see your point, it's just, well, not that good of one to be honest.

And yet, even you could understand it.

 

[Old Dog]

I must be missing something here. Just reread through the entire thread ... just how difficult is it, really, to step out on one's porch and answer a couple of questions from a law enforcement officer? Typically, if one states that one doesn't know the person of interest, or one hasn't seen anything related to the incident being investigated, the entire interaction between citizen and law enforcement officer takes maybe a few minutes at most, ending with the officer giving the citizen his/her card and saying, "Hey, well then, if you remember anything else, can you please give me a call?"

Many here are purposely creating a context wherein any interaction between themselves and law enforcement officials is automatically adverse and confrontational. It shouldn't have to be this way, and the bad behavior of a tiny percentage of cops notwithstanding, there simply is no reason to turn citizen-cop communication instantly negative by refusing to even exercise basic common courtesy and civic responsibility.

I don't know about the rest of you, but if I have a chance to help out any segment of my community, I'll jump at it, especially if I can help solve a crime against one of my fellow citizens or assist them in any way -- which is what I am doing by simply sparing a few minutes of my time to converse with cops. Many of you really, really are just making your lives far tougher than need be.

Simply because a law enforcement officer is authorized to make arrests and "put you in jail" (NineseveN) has no bearing whatsoever on routine communication between citizen and cop. That the cops were there for me would be the absolute last thing that would ever occur to me, should I find a couple of my county's finest or the FBI at my front door (even if I have changed out my low-flow toilet to a powerful FlushMaster 5000) ... this business of all the laws every citizen could be in violation of by virtue of the fact that there are a lot of laws on the books is being used in an entirely bogus way by some of you. Let's face it -- if cops are at your door, it's not because you tore the tag off your mattress or swapped out your low-flow toilet.

Once again, it's us-versus-them. I guess some of you just need drama in your lives and this is the only place you can find it.

also no need to bear your sole.

Is that anything like "bare your soul?"

Exceptible or not?

Would that be "acceptable?"

 

[NineseveN]

And yet, even you could understand it.

Is that to imply that I am stupid, or that your point was so bad that it is a wonder that someone could understand it, yet I did? I don't get the relevance.

 

[NineseveN]

I must be missing something here. Just reread through the entire thread ... just how difficult is it, really, to step out on one's porch and answer a couple of questions from a law enforcement officer? Typically, if one states that one doesn't know the person of interest, or one hasn't seen anything related to the incident being investigated, the entire interaction between citizen and law enforcement officer takes maybe a few minutes at most, ending with the officer giving the citizen his/her card and saying, "Hey, well then, if you remember anything else, can you please give me a call?"

Many here are purposely creating a context wherein any interaction between themselves and law enforcement officials is automatically adverse and confrontational. It shouldn't have to be this way, and the bad behavior of a tiny percentage of cops notwithstanding, there simply is no reason to turn citizen-cop communication instantly negative by refusing to even exercise basic common courtesy and civic responsibility.

I don't know about the rest of you, but if I have a chance to help out any segment of my community, I'll jump at it, especially if I can help solve a crime against one of my fellow citizens or assist them in any way -- which is what I am doing by simply sparing a few minutes of my time to converse with cops. Many of you really, really are just making your lives far tougher than need be.

Simply because a law enforcement officer is authorized to make arrests and "put you in jail" (NineseveN) has no bearing whatsoever on routine communication between citizen and cop. That the cops were there for me would be the absolute last thing that would ever occur to me, should I find a couple of my county's finest or the FBI at my front door (even if I have changed out my low-flow toilet to a powerful FlushMaster 5000) ... this business of all the laws every citizen could be in violation of by virtue of the fact that there are a lot of laws on the books is being used in an entirely bogus way by some of you. Let's face it -- if cops are at your door, it's not because you tore the tag off your mattress or swapped out your low-flow toilet.

Once again, it's us-versus-them. I guess some of you just need drama in your lives and this is the only place you can find it.

Is that anything like "bare your soul?"
Would that be "acceptable?"

Well, it's really "Us VS You, VS Them Vs Those other guys."

You have the group of overly paranoid citizens that would pretend they were not home or go out of their way to make things difficult for the cops at any opportunity.

You have the group of cops that would respect someone preferring to answer questions at the station at another time for any number of reasons unless it was urgent. If it were urgent they would insist.

You have the folks that would prefer to answer questions at the station at another time for any number of reasons unless it was urgent. If it were urgent they would assist.

You have the group of cops that would threaten Obstruction of Justice over a citizen explaining that at the present time they have nothing they can say, but will gladly speak with the legal authorities at the station with a witness and/or attorney present.


2 of these are reasonable, 2 of them are not...here's a hint, neither the reasonable ones nor the unreasonable ones are both the example cops.

And please try to refrain from poking fun at my grammar, that's kinda grade schoolish.

 

[M-Rex]

Is that to imply that I am stupid, or that your point was so bad that it is a wonder that someone could understand it, yet I did? I don't get the relevance.

If you were able to understand the point, then my example was a good one.

 

[NineseveN]

If you were able to understand the point, then my example was a good one. If you feel stupid, that is your problem to work through.

How nice of you to explain, wasn't very well-intentioned though as I take it.

I'll bow out of discussion with you for the time being, perhaps one of us will grow up sometime soon so we can refrain from dragging this topic into the dirt even further. I have a terrible proclivity to get nasty, so I'll respectfully nip it in the bud right here.

Thanks for the discourse.

 

[12-34hom]

Old Dog, for some it is. There are those in society whom have a hard time taking personal responsibility for their actions, rather all their woes and misfortunes are at the hands of others. Authority figures represent something to be feared or loathed, justifying the crutch they lean on, sensing some inherent action going to be taken against them if they have an interaction with police on a routine matter.

This type of attitude is parochial in nature - the same way children get defensive if asked questions - it is born of ignorance - fostered by an active imagination. Most grow up and out of such ways - some never do.

Life goes on.

12-34hom