Neo-Luddite
Member
Get a 'no soliciting' sign. My wife won't let me put one up. I'm bad--if the Boy Scouts/ Girl Scouts come by-- I will ONLY buy if they are properly attired in their uniform. All others take a hike.
Door to door sales guy?
- Thread starter Beachmaster
- Start date
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kingpin008
Member
Depending on the laws/police/prosecutor, possibly yes to both.
tnieto2004
Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,389
Aggravated assault (or battery, if harmed, I assume would be the correct wording) with a deadly weapon .. possibly attempted murder .. If I read the law correctly
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/charges/jury/assault3.htm
Just one site I looked on
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/charges/jury/assault3.htm
Just one site I looked on
Jorg Nysgerrig
Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 7,822
tkkr, what country are you from? I can only surmise from your questions and your other posts that the legal system you are famliar with is vastly different than that of the United States.
I have read the law. It plainly states that unholstering, handling, displaying a firearm in an unfriendly manner is chargeable as the crime of brandishing. Pointing a gun at someone is assault with a deadly weapon. If he had made any kind of verbal statement that sounded (implied) that he might be using the firearm unless the person left, that could be construed as a "terroristic threat" i.e. you threatened harm unless someone did as you told them.
I don't go making this stuff up, but I make it my business to be aware of it in order to stay on the right side of the law. I DO know that if you go yanking guns out of your holster every time a magazine salesman, church folks, or anyone you'd rather not have standing on your stoop after dark (and this time of year, anything after about 5:30 in the evening is "dark") that it's not going to leave a favorable impression in the public mindset about firearms owners - that we're all crazy, grumpy old hair-trigger coots and a menace to public safety. As far as "after dark" -that's the only time folks are home from work and the only time that door-to-door selling makes any sense. When do you expect them to come talk to you, while you're gone to work?
Maybe the guy didn't look "reputable". Maybe a salesman told a fib to win your confidence (no, that never happens). It looks on the surface that you had a gun on you, so that was the first, last and only way you thought of to make him go away and leave you alone. There was no iminent threat to your life and no immediate threat of bodily harm or property damage. So why yank out a gun in an intimidating manner? That speaks to a lack of social skills. Again, there was no "situation" that couldn't be adequately addressed with "No thanks, not interested, bye!"
Now, if someone's kicking down your door trying to break in, go ahead, brandish away! Both I and your local PD will understand it then. In that case there is an iminent threat. But a guy who just knocked on your door and wanted to talk? I just don't get it. I don't even have an issue with holding the gun behind you, out of sight, while you say "No thanks!" if you have a bad vibe about the situation. But that's different than brandishing by an order of magnitude.
I don't know we necessarily need a law to regulate such things, but incidents like this show me it is no surprise why we have them now - because some gun owners are not "self-regulating" and behaving properly with their firearms. By being careful, controlled and moderate in our behavior, we show that we don't need regulations, but when we act like the person did in this incident, well that just throws another log on the anti-gun bonfire. Not a pretty sight and certainly not doing the rest of us any favors. But it does sound cool when you tell your buddies about it or brag on an internet forum.
I don't go making this stuff up, but I make it my business to be aware of it in order to stay on the right side of the law. I DO know that if you go yanking guns out of your holster every time a magazine salesman, church folks, or anyone you'd rather not have standing on your stoop after dark (and this time of year, anything after about 5:30 in the evening is "dark") that it's not going to leave a favorable impression in the public mindset about firearms owners - that we're all crazy, grumpy old hair-trigger coots and a menace to public safety. As far as "after dark" -that's the only time folks are home from work and the only time that door-to-door selling makes any sense. When do you expect them to come talk to you, while you're gone to work?
Maybe the guy didn't look "reputable". Maybe a salesman told a fib to win your confidence (no, that never happens). It looks on the surface that you had a gun on you, so that was the first, last and only way you thought of to make him go away and leave you alone. There was no iminent threat to your life and no immediate threat of bodily harm or property damage. So why yank out a gun in an intimidating manner? That speaks to a lack of social skills. Again, there was no "situation" that couldn't be adequately addressed with "No thanks, not interested, bye!"
Now, if someone's kicking down your door trying to break in, go ahead, brandish away! Both I and your local PD will understand it then. In that case there is an iminent threat. But a guy who just knocked on your door and wanted to talk? I just don't get it. I don't even have an issue with holding the gun behind you, out of sight, while you say "No thanks!" if you have a bad vibe about the situation. But that's different than brandishing by an order of magnitude.
I don't know we necessarily need a law to regulate such things, but incidents like this show me it is no surprise why we have them now - because some gun owners are not "self-regulating" and behaving properly with their firearms. By being careful, controlled and moderate in our behavior, we show that we don't need regulations, but when we act like the person did in this incident, well that just throws another log on the anti-gun bonfire. Not a pretty sight and certainly not doing the rest of us any favors. But it does sound cool when you tell your buddies about it or brag on an internet forum.
Guy B. Meredith
Member
I'll go TallPine one better. I do not answer the door or take telephone calls if I have not asked for the visit/call or do not know the person. At the very least they are intruding on my privacy. Insistent people get a rude response.
-terry
Member
What if you just have your gun in a visible holster. You don't draw it or point to it, it's just there...in plain sight. Is that brandishing?
acdodd
Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2005
- Messages
- 486
In Washington I don't believe that would be brandishing.
However if you live in the liberal big city the police would still give you a lot of grief.
Seems like I read about a guy that unsnapped his gun but left it holstered and the police were called and he was charged. Don't recall the outcome tho.
AC
1lostinspace
member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
- Messages
- 124
You should of robbed him and then called the cops.
jk
jk
plumberroy
Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2006
- Messages
- 797
I beleive a gun should only by drawn/shown when you are going to use it in a self defence situation if drawn for show and you don't use it .some one actually intending to do you harm would just have time to figure out how to take it away from you . I did hand a door to door salesman a large bore pistol target and tell him to wait right there I'll be right back. he was not there when I got back . I am not nice to door to door salesman the last one that tried sticking his foot in the door hobbled away but drawing a firearm without a reasonable threat to you or your family makes you the bad guy in the eyes of the law
Roy
Roy
chrlefxtrt
Member
You forgot to mention if he had shifty eyes 
I generally just open or conceal carry in the house since all of my firearms but the one I am carrying are locked up, well there is another but only the wife knows where it is. I have lil' bitty brothers' and sisters' in-law over often. We cannot have any accidental discharges.
I see no problem with having a pistol drawen when you answer the door. If he calls the cops all you gotta say is "I was heading to the gun cabinet when this stranger at night knocked on my door, it was late I thought he might be in trouble did you expect me to put my pistol up then help him? What if he was having a heart attack"? Your property, after dark, no gun in face. Unless you are in the 9th circuit I don't see how it would hold up.
I generally just open or conceal carry in the house since all of my firearms but the one I am carrying are locked up, well there is another but only the wife knows where it is. I have lil' bitty brothers' and sisters' in-law over often. We cannot have any accidental discharges.
I see no problem with having a pistol drawen when you answer the door. If he calls the cops all you gotta say is "I was heading to the gun cabinet when this stranger at night knocked on my door, it was late I thought he might be in trouble did you expect me to put my pistol up then help him? What if he was having a heart attack"? Your property, after dark, no gun in face. Unless you are in the 9th circuit I don't see how it would hold up.
, best to nip it in the bud even if it was just a salesman.kingpin008
Member
What does unholstering a pistol do that saying "Not interested, please leave my property" and closing the door doesn't? Shady or not, you have to admit that by making a point of unholstering the pistol, he sent a very clear message that he was prepared (and perhaps eager) to engage the man.
Nipping it in the bud is perfectly acceptable, and he's well within his rights to do so - however, if he had been involved in an incident (let's say he unholstered the pistol and the man on the porch felt threatened (I sure as hell know I would have) and made a move to produce an ID card or business card from his wallet - the OP sees this, thinks "GUN!!" and fires.
Guess what? He's just caught himself a murder case. He chose to continue contact with the man, instead of breaking contact (declining further conversation & shutting the door) and then he chose to escalate the situation by drawing a pistol. THEN he escalated further, when he chose to fire upon an unarmed man going for identification.
No. Telling the man to hit the bricks and shutting the door is a sensible, smart response. Hell, even keeping the pistol drawn but hidden makes sense. But why introduce that threat to the situation, when there are plenty of other, more acceptable choices with which to conclude the meeting without the slightest hint of violence?
Nipping it in the bud is perfectly acceptable, and he's well within his rights to do so - however, if he had been involved in an incident (let's say he unholstered the pistol and the man on the porch felt threatened (I sure as hell know I would have) and made a move to produce an ID card or business card from his wallet - the OP sees this, thinks "GUN!!" and fires.
Guess what? He's just caught himself a murder case. He chose to continue contact with the man, instead of breaking contact (declining further conversation & shutting the door) and then he chose to escalate the situation by drawing a pistol. THEN he escalated further, when he chose to fire upon an unarmed man going for identification.
No. Telling the man to hit the bricks and shutting the door is a sensible, smart response. Hell, even keeping the pistol drawn but hidden makes sense. But why introduce that threat to the situation, when there are plenty of other, more acceptable choices with which to conclude the meeting without the slightest hint of violence?
Beachmaster
Member
Sorry that some of you live in states where simply holding a weapon on your own property is against the law. Here in AZ its not. Even worse, some of you live in areas where you can't even posses a weapon on you own property, like NY or DC!
Were I wearing a side holster with a gun visible, I think I would have pointed to it when my "visitor" mentioned a neighbor that does not exist, and brought up shooting.
Had the scruffy guy not said "your neighbor says you would not shoot me" I think I would have just told the guy to get lost and went back inside.
It seems prudent at the time to let the scruffy guy know I was armed.
No, I didn't yank my gun out or even move it around. I love how some of you feel everybody who actually uses a weapon is careless. My arm reached around my back and my weapon was in my hand, pointing toward the floor, with its safety on (and my finger OFF the trigger) before he even finished his next sentence.
While I understand that in public, drawing your weapon, especially a concealed one, is considered the last step before using it, here in AZ, a person can be on their own property and answer the door with a shotgun, deer rifle, or bazooka (if legally owned). You can walk around your property with a weapon if you so desired, and if you have enough distance from your neighbors, can legally target shoot or hunt on your own property.
Also, for those that feel I have announced that there is a gun in my house, well I also open carry sometimes, as do many others in town, so anybody would know I have a gun anyway. Just one of the perks when you live in a gun friendly state.
If I had pointed the weapon at him, that might have been considered hostile, but again, I live in a rural area of Arizona. I doubt if around here it would have caused a stir. Last year, a local armed store owner detained a weird acting guy until the police arrived. In some areas, that would have been unlawful detention, and possibly armed kidnapping. Here, the store owner was praised by police and the local paper. Turned out the guy was strung out on drugs.
Please note that the thought of pointing my weapon at the scruffy guy did not cross my mind. My intent was to show him I was armed, and that I understood he was lying and apparently up to something, and I now had the upper hand. Nothing more.
My house is not on a big well lit street, but in a rural area where half our road is unpaved. My driveway is a little over 200' long. There was no car in my driveway (this guy either walked up the road, or parked down the street and walked onto my property at night.) When people visit me at my house, they usually park in the driveway or the large parking pad in front of the place. I don't think I have ever had anyone but a real neighbor walk over to my house. Even on Halloween, only the families in our street come over, and most of the parents drive the kids from one property to the next, because its so far between the houses and every one has a long driveway.
Some may think I need to post no trespassing or soliciting signs on my property. Well I guess I could, but like I said, we are not on a main street but away from town on a rural road. Trespassers and solicitors are usually never a problem.
Anyway, from what I have read, having your property posted does not give you any more rights or actions available to you than what the law says. If its unlawful to point a weapon or shoot a bad guy on your property, sign or no sign, its unlawful. If you need to defend yourself, sign or not, you are allowed to by law.
And it does crack me up that some folks think a sign is going to stop a bad guy. Even LAWS and threat of punishment don't stop bad guys. Sure, it MAY stop an honest salesperson (is there such an animal?) from bothering you, but unless you post a large and highly visible sign that they see, they might overlook it, and try to sell you crap anyway.
And another thing, this is my home. I don't think I need to have signs and billboards around the place like a commercial zone. I moved out west here so I didn't have to live in a crime ridden area, with signs on my property, car alarms and clubs on my car, and my kids hidden inside so they were safe.
If you think it prudent to keep a firearm holstered and hidden when a scruffy looking guy bangs on your door, mentions a non existent neighbor, and talks of shooting in the first sentence then by all means do as you please. I was alone on my property at night, felt something not quite right in the air, and decided to take the upper hand and control the situation. I'm alive, and the scruffy guy has learned an important life lesson!
Were I wearing a side holster with a gun visible, I think I would have pointed to it when my "visitor" mentioned a neighbor that does not exist, and brought up shooting.
Had the scruffy guy not said "your neighbor says you would not shoot me" I think I would have just told the guy to get lost and went back inside.
It seems prudent at the time to let the scruffy guy know I was armed.
No, I didn't yank my gun out or even move it around. I love how some of you feel everybody who actually uses a weapon is careless. My arm reached around my back and my weapon was in my hand, pointing toward the floor, with its safety on (and my finger OFF the trigger) before he even finished his next sentence.
While I understand that in public, drawing your weapon, especially a concealed one, is considered the last step before using it, here in AZ, a person can be on their own property and answer the door with a shotgun, deer rifle, or bazooka (if legally owned). You can walk around your property with a weapon if you so desired, and if you have enough distance from your neighbors, can legally target shoot or hunt on your own property.
Also, for those that feel I have announced that there is a gun in my house, well I also open carry sometimes, as do many others in town, so anybody would know I have a gun anyway. Just one of the perks when you live in a gun friendly state.
If I had pointed the weapon at him, that might have been considered hostile, but again, I live in a rural area of Arizona. I doubt if around here it would have caused a stir. Last year, a local armed store owner detained a weird acting guy until the police arrived. In some areas, that would have been unlawful detention, and possibly armed kidnapping. Here, the store owner was praised by police and the local paper. Turned out the guy was strung out on drugs.
Please note that the thought of pointing my weapon at the scruffy guy did not cross my mind. My intent was to show him I was armed, and that I understood he was lying and apparently up to something, and I now had the upper hand. Nothing more.
My house is not on a big well lit street, but in a rural area where half our road is unpaved. My driveway is a little over 200' long. There was no car in my driveway (this guy either walked up the road, or parked down the street and walked onto my property at night.) When people visit me at my house, they usually park in the driveway or the large parking pad in front of the place. I don't think I have ever had anyone but a real neighbor walk over to my house. Even on Halloween, only the families in our street come over, and most of the parents drive the kids from one property to the next, because its so far between the houses and every one has a long driveway.
Some may think I need to post no trespassing or soliciting signs on my property. Well I guess I could, but like I said, we are not on a main street but away from town on a rural road. Trespassers and solicitors are usually never a problem.
Anyway, from what I have read, having your property posted does not give you any more rights or actions available to you than what the law says. If its unlawful to point a weapon or shoot a bad guy on your property, sign or no sign, its unlawful. If you need to defend yourself, sign or not, you are allowed to by law.
And it does crack me up that some folks think a sign is going to stop a bad guy. Even LAWS and threat of punishment don't stop bad guys. Sure, it MAY stop an honest salesperson (is there such an animal?) from bothering you, but unless you post a large and highly visible sign that they see, they might overlook it, and try to sell you crap anyway.
And another thing, this is my home. I don't think I need to have signs and billboards around the place like a commercial zone. I moved out west here so I didn't have to live in a crime ridden area, with signs on my property, car alarms and clubs on my car, and my kids hidden inside so they were safe.
If you think it prudent to keep a firearm holstered and hidden when a scruffy looking guy bangs on your door, mentions a non existent neighbor, and talks of shooting in the first sentence then by all means do as you please. I was alone on my property at night, felt something not quite right in the air, and decided to take the upper hand and control the situation. I'm alive, and the scruffy guy has learned an important life lesson!
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Vito_Corleone
Member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2007
- Messages
- 64
I sincerely hope people like you don't ruin it for the rest of us.
Beachmaster
Member
kingpin008, Not sure why you act like I'm eager to shoot a guy. I guess you feel wearing a gun or carrying one everyday makes a person "eager" to use it.
My wife carries a gun when she answers the door when I'm not home. Does that make her "eager" to shoot somebody?
I understand you probably have a different mindset about daily carry since you live in Howard County. (Hey, if you can assume things about me, or play the what if game, so can I!) I was born and raised in Maryland, lived there all my life (including a few years in Howard County) until a few years ago (when we had enough of the crime and grime of the mid-Atlantic).
I was a gun owner in Maryland, and even managed to get (eventually) a CCW there. My CCW (like many issued in MD) stated that I was only allowed to carry the weapon when working, but since I was self employed, I kept myself "ON THE CLOCK" all the time. I guess that made me " extra eager".
While, living in Maryland, I witnessed a variety of crimes in action, ranging from simple assaults, drug dealing, a purse snatching, and was even in a 7-11 during a robbery. At no time during any of these incidents was I "eager" to pull out my weapon, point it or pull the trigger, even during the robbery. In most I either called police, or stayed to give police my account. (To be fair, if the 7-11 robber had turned on my or started shooting, I probably would have defended myself with my weapon in that situation)
Once, while going to lunch in Annapolis , I witnessed a man running through the parking lot wearing a ski mask and a dark shirt, and carrying a bag. I heard a siren drive by the main road, and saw the man duck down between cars. He took off his mask and ran toward the shopping center. I heard another siren and saw the man duck down between cars to hide again. I tried to call the cops, but my crappy cell phone (one of the first ones that was portable) died just as I dialed 911.
I decided to follow the suspicious man and see if I could flag down a cop. I drove across the lot and saw him run to the dumspter area, duck behind the dumpsters for a minute and came out now wearing just his white T shirt, and not carrying the bag anymore. Another siren came buy and he ducked again behind cars, then ran around the side of the building toward the rear. I drove past him, all the while trying to get a signal on my cell and call 911. I stopped at the end of the lot, and turned my truck around. What could I do to stop this guy. It was obvious to me he was a bad guy. Ski mask in summer, change of clothes, ducking down when sirens ran past, and lots of sirens all over the place.
The guy was now aware of me following him, and was walking toward my vehicle and screaming stuff at me trying to scare me off. I picked up my weapon of choice for this moment that I kept in my truck as as he got near me and I SHOT! Thats right, I was eager to shoot!
I shot a picture of him! I used to keep a disposable film camera in my truck just in case I needed to document things for my business. (Now I keep a small digital one) He raised his hand up to cover his face and I got a few more shots of him running past me and into the woods behind the shopping center. I drove around to the front of the center and found a cop and told him what I saw. He said some guys just robbed the bank around the corner. I led police to where he dropped his mask, the dumpster area where they found his shirt and a bag of cash hidden in the trash.
The cops asked me for a description of the guy and I handed him the camera. The look on the cops face was priceless! We drove to the next shopping center and had the film processed on the spot. Nothing like shooting the bad guy after the bank robbery!
BTW, I had my gun with me during that event, and it never crossed my mind I even had the gun with me. All I wanted to do was call 911 and get a pic of the suspicious guy.
OK, now we will play what if.
What if after the scruffy guy said to me "your neighbor said you were a good guy and would not shoot me" and I had not even put my gun on me, and simply said "I'm not interested", or "please get off my land", or whatever and the scruffy guy took my lack of action as his signal to attack me, pulled out his pistol and shot me????
Guess what, I'm dead!
See, you can play the "What If" game, all day long,
A person who sees something is a bit hokey, and decides to tilt the odds in their favor is not necessarily being "eager" to pull the trigger. If anything, my intent was to defuse any situation by giving me a chance to retreat back inside my home while the scruffy guy weighed his options.
BTW, the only two things my wife and I miss about Maryland are real crab cakes with Old Bay, and Bergers chocolate top cookies! These people out west here think crabs come from Alaska! Go Figure!
My wife carries a gun when she answers the door when I'm not home. Does that make her "eager" to shoot somebody?
I understand you probably have a different mindset about daily carry since you live in Howard County. (Hey, if you can assume things about me, or play the what if game, so can I!) I was born and raised in Maryland, lived there all my life (including a few years in Howard County) until a few years ago (when we had enough of the crime and grime of the mid-Atlantic).
I was a gun owner in Maryland, and even managed to get (eventually) a CCW there. My CCW (like many issued in MD) stated that I was only allowed to carry the weapon when working, but since I was self employed, I kept myself "ON THE CLOCK" all the time. I guess that made me " extra eager".
While, living in Maryland, I witnessed a variety of crimes in action, ranging from simple assaults, drug dealing, a purse snatching, and was even in a 7-11 during a robbery. At no time during any of these incidents was I "eager" to pull out my weapon, point it or pull the trigger, even during the robbery. In most I either called police, or stayed to give police my account. (To be fair, if the 7-11 robber had turned on my or started shooting, I probably would have defended myself with my weapon in that situation)
Once, while going to lunch in Annapolis , I witnessed a man running through the parking lot wearing a ski mask and a dark shirt, and carrying a bag. I heard a siren drive by the main road, and saw the man duck down between cars. He took off his mask and ran toward the shopping center. I heard another siren and saw the man duck down between cars to hide again. I tried to call the cops, but my crappy cell phone (one of the first ones that was portable) died just as I dialed 911.
I decided to follow the suspicious man and see if I could flag down a cop. I drove across the lot and saw him run to the dumspter area, duck behind the dumpsters for a minute and came out now wearing just his white T shirt, and not carrying the bag anymore. Another siren came buy and he ducked again behind cars, then ran around the side of the building toward the rear. I drove past him, all the while trying to get a signal on my cell and call 911. I stopped at the end of the lot, and turned my truck around. What could I do to stop this guy. It was obvious to me he was a bad guy. Ski mask in summer, change of clothes, ducking down when sirens ran past, and lots of sirens all over the place.
The guy was now aware of me following him, and was walking toward my vehicle and screaming stuff at me trying to scare me off. I picked up my weapon of choice for this moment that I kept in my truck as as he got near me and I SHOT! Thats right, I was eager to shoot!
I shot a picture of him!
I used to keep a disposable film camera in my truck just in case I needed to document things for my business. (Now I keep a small digital one) He raised his hand up to cover his face and I got a few more shots of him running past me and into the woods behind the shopping center. I drove around to the front of the center and found a cop and told him what I saw. He said some guys just robbed the bank around the corner. I led police to where he dropped his mask, the dumpster area where they found his shirt and a bag of cash hidden in the trash.The cops asked me for a description of the guy and I handed him the camera. The look on the cops face was priceless! We drove to the next shopping center and had the film processed on the spot. Nothing like shooting the bad guy after the bank robbery!
BTW, I had my gun with me during that event, and it never crossed my mind I even had the gun with me. All I wanted to do was call 911 and get a pic of the suspicious guy.
OK, now we will play what if.
What if after the scruffy guy said to me "your neighbor said you were a good guy and would not shoot me" and I had not even put my gun on me, and simply said "I'm not interested", or "please get off my land", or whatever and the scruffy guy took my lack of action as his signal to attack me, pulled out his pistol and shot me????
Guess what, I'm dead!
See, you can play the "What If" game, all day long,
A person who sees something is a bit hokey, and decides to tilt the odds in their favor is not necessarily being "eager" to pull the trigger. If anything, my intent was to defuse any situation by giving me a chance to retreat back inside my home while the scruffy guy weighed his options.
BTW, the only two things my wife and I miss about Maryland are real crab cakes with Old Bay, and Bergers chocolate top cookies! These people out west here think crabs come from Alaska! Go Figure!
kingpin008
Member
Beachmaster - Personally, I don't care what you do. I posted a few comments with my opinion, and that's simply it. An opinion.
I said nothing about you being eager to shoot anyone - What I said, was that it could easily appear that way to the individual on the other end of the encounter, and to anyone who he chose to tell about it afterwards (such as the cops). Whether that reaction is something I agree with or not is really immaterial. You do what you feel is right, and hope it works out, just like the rest of us do. I just wouldn't do it that way, and I said as such. Please don't take it personally, because it wasn't meant to be. My "mindset" about daily carry is basically this - I wish I were allowed to do it! I have no issue with carrying or defending my life with a gun if I have to - I just live in an area where I'm prohibited from doing so. And believe it or not, I've seen my fair share of crime too! In fact, I've had the rare opportunity to feel what the barrel of a snubnose revolver feels against my temple, and I can tell you - it's NOT fun. I was lucky enough to come away alive - the kid who held it to me (and who pulled the trigger) was, luckily for me, holding an empty gun.
In short, please spare me the sarcasm. If you took offense to the things I said, quite honestly that's your problem. If you post things on public forums, expect people to have things to say about them. Even things that might not agree with you!
Take care,
Kingpin
I said nothing about you being eager to shoot anyone - What I said, was that it could easily appear that way to the individual on the other end of the encounter, and to anyone who he chose to tell about it afterwards (such as the cops). Whether that reaction is something I agree with or not is really immaterial. You do what you feel is right, and hope it works out, just like the rest of us do. I just wouldn't do it that way, and I said as such. Please don't take it personally, because it wasn't meant to be. My "mindset" about daily carry is basically this - I wish I were allowed to do it! I have no issue with carrying or defending my life with a gun if I have to - I just live in an area where I'm prohibited from doing so. And believe it or not, I've seen my fair share of crime too! In fact, I've had the rare opportunity to feel what the barrel of a snubnose revolver feels against my temple, and I can tell you - it's NOT fun. I was lucky enough to come away alive - the kid who held it to me (and who pulled the trigger) was, luckily for me, holding an empty gun.
In short, please spare me the sarcasm. If you took offense to the things I said, quite honestly that's your problem. If you post things on public forums, expect people to have things to say about them. Even things that might not agree with you!
Take care,
Kingpin
CajunBass
Member
Gee. I simply say "No thank you. Now get lost." And shut the door. It works every time.
35Rem
Member
Ummm, seems like most missed the part about the "scruffy guy" bringing up the 'shooting' word, which prompted the display. Someone comes to my door at night and says the "s" word, I would probably do the same.
I really hate it for you guys that live somewhere where you can't defend yourself. You probably need to move.
If I'm cleaning my gun (assuming I live where some of you do) and someone knocks, and I carry the gun I'm cleaning to the door with me, is that brandishing, too?
I really hate it for you guys that live somewhere where you can't defend yourself. You probably need to move.
If I'm cleaning my gun (assuming I live where some of you do) and someone knocks, and I carry the gun I'm cleaning to the door with me, is that brandishing, too?
The salesman's behavior sounds absolutely typical for every magazine/cleaning supplies/you name it salesman I've ever had come to my door.
They are nervous. They are coming to your door usually because their handlers have dropped them off in your neighborhood and will come back to collect them in a couple of hours. They are often young, they don't make jack for money at it, and are not, as a group, a threat. Not saying there aren't a few dangerous poseurs out there, but the guy the OP wrote about behaved totally normally for that group.
It is not that it is "illegal to carry on your own property" that is at issue here. I can open carry on my property in Texas, and if I go to the door with a 1911 on my waistband, well, yes, the salesman is probably going to see it. But there is a world of difference, at least in my state, between HAVING it and DRAWING it. You do not have to point it at someone to be brandishing, at least not here, and you are incredibly fortunate that this kid didn't call 911 and complain about a nut threatening him with a gun.
Get a peephole, get an intercom, or do what Justin did. But if you value your freedom, I wouldn't give this a repeat performance.
Springmom
They are nervous. They are coming to your door usually because their handlers have dropped them off in your neighborhood and will come back to collect them in a couple of hours. They are often young, they don't make jack for money at it, and are not, as a group, a threat. Not saying there aren't a few dangerous poseurs out there, but the guy the OP wrote about behaved totally normally for that group.
It is not that it is "illegal to carry on your own property" that is at issue here. I can open carry on my property in Texas, and if I go to the door with a 1911 on my waistband, well, yes, the salesman is probably going to see it. But there is a world of difference, at least in my state, between HAVING it and DRAWING it. You do not have to point it at someone to be brandishing, at least not here, and you are incredibly fortunate that this kid didn't call 911 and complain about a nut threatening him with a gun.
Get a peephole, get an intercom, or do what Justin did. But if you value your freedom, I wouldn't give this a repeat performance.
Springmom
Jorg Nysgerrig
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- Apr 13, 2006
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Since when is before 7:30 pm considered "at night"?
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I'm with springmom, we can take it to the door in our belt but it will be probably brandishing if you take it out like that. I'm not saying you did wrong because i probably would have done the same thing even here if the guy says the "s" word. And that's why I have a storm door also, I can open the main door and still have a second door locked to talk to the person. Anyway I probably won't open anyway if I'm not expecting you.
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