The search for accurate match loads for 9mm continues...

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It generally only happens with some guns. As blue68f100 notes, it depends on if they lock up consistently. My Glock G19 does not appear do this, some of my other guns do it sometimes, and one gun does it all the time on the first shot.

Many Ransom Rest users will fire the first (hand cycled) round off target for this reason to avoid the first wild shot ruining their group.

Thanks for the explanation. I don't think my shooting skills are good enough to know if the first shot flyer is me or the gun. Maybe next time I should take note of the first shot vs the rest of them to see if any of my guns maybe has a lockup issue. I have seen very good grouping with all my guns, so maybe it happens some time or never, but not all the time.
 
Got some range time in again today and have come to the conclusion that reloading for 9mm is pretty much a complete waste of time, money, and resources.
Then why do top regional/national match shooters use reloads/handloads? My guess is because they are more accurate than factory ammo. ;)

When I started shooting USPSA in the 90s, I tested several factory ammo and used the best shooting of the bunch which was PMC/S&B. When I started reloading, my group size shrank by 40% over smallest factory groups.


Keep in mind, 9mm with small internal volume operating at higher pressures is sensitive to small changes in reloading variables (Such as OAL/bullet seating depth variance, Neck tension/bullet setback, Taper crimp amount, Powder forward/exposed primer when round is slammed/chambered, etc. etc.) which affects chamber pressure build/average peak pressures (Area under curve) that affects muzzle velocities (SD) and ultimately groups on target (Or shotgun pattern with lots of flyers).

If you are using mixed range brass, this reloading variable alone will produce unwanted flyers which will open up your groups, independent of shooter input on trigger.

Does your front sight jump/move when the striker is released? If so, this also will add to the flyers. Grip pistol properly and dry fire/practice until it doesn't and if it continues, you may need a trigger job (At 1:55 minute mark of video on link, Rob Leatham demonstrates this to steady the pistol for faster accurate shots) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902444

Rob Leatham demonstrates firing gun without moving it - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902452



Depending on headstamp, amount of bullet setback can vary which will produce different chamber pressures - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...neck-tension-and-bullet-setback.830072/page-4

How consistent are your bullet nose profile (ogive) and resulting OAL variance? For my match loads, I pre-resized my brass to reduce OAL variance from shellplate tilt/deflection and used bullets with most consistent ogive to get OAL variance down to .001" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779806

And I use the least amount of taper crimp so as to not reduce bullet diameter at case mouth (And I want case mouth to seal with chamber as fast as possible for faster pressure build and with less gas leakage). So for .355" sized bullet, I use .377" taper crimp. For .3555" (RMR) and .356" (HAP/Speer/Zero) sized bullets, I use .378" taper crimp.

BTW, if your barrel's groove-to-groove diameter is oversized at .356"+, using larger than .355" sized bullets will produce less gas leakage and more consistent chamber pressures.

If you want accuracy out of 9mm, you have to sweat the details and is my current reloading pursuit - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-10966692


My reference benchmark for 9mm accuracy is Atlanta Arms 115 gr FMJ AMU (1.130" OAL, 1150 fps) "designed for extreme accuracy at 50 yards and is used by the Army Marksmanship Unit and the Marine Service Pistol team for service pistol matches." - https://atlantaarms.com/products/9mm-115gr-fmj-match-amu.html
Accuracy test requirement: 5 ten-shot groups at 50 yards with an average group size not to exceed 1.5 inches. (Fired from a Match Grade barrel fixture) Minor Power Factor – 125
Like reloading variables, there are shooting variables and now I conduct my accuracy testing with 17" Just Right carbine (with 9/40/45 barrel/bolt/magwell conversions) at 25/50/100 yards using a scope.

BTW, Guns & Ammo produced 50 yard 1.2"-1.7" shot groups with the JR carbine in this review - http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/jr-american-flag-carbine-review/

My 50 yard 10 shot groups with RMR 100 gr HM RN (Yes, thick plated bullet, not jacketed with MIXED range brass) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-9mm-40s-w-45acp.799231/page-3#post-10245856

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What small change in powder charge (Chamber pressure) can do to group size and why I prefer powders and measure combo to produce .1 gr or less powder charge variance - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-alliant-sport-pistol.816514/page-5#post-10702450

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What small change in OAL can do to group size (Yes, I am using mixed range brass, so that may explain the one lone flyer on 1.130" group :D). BTW, IMR Target is often overlooked powder for accurate loads - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/sport-pistol-and-9mm.840966/#post-10918438

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Here are some comparison 25 yard 10 shot groups (With mixed range brass so expect flyers) starting with 115 gr FMJ 4.8 gr W231/HP-38 which is my reference load comparable to Winchester white box - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...for-more-accurate-loads.841097/#post-10919894

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115 gr FMJ with 4.4 - 4.5 gr Promo (Loaded short at 1.110"-1.115" for short leade Lone Wolf barrel) is my "econo" plinking load that works well in all pistols and shoots well in blowback carbines due to fast burning powder (4.1 - 4.2 gr Promo is a pleasure to shoot in subcompacts like Shield 9mm) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...for-more-accurate-loads.841097/#post-10919894

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Sport Pistol recently replaced W231/HP-38 as my reference powder as it meters better (.05 gr or less compared to .1 for W231/HP-38) and essentially uses the same powder charge as W231/HP-38 with less temperature sensitivity and cleaner burning than N320.

For this testing, I tried to see if shorter 1.110" produced smaller groups than 1.130" and it showed promise (circled group).

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Bottom line? All of these loads should be more accurate than bulk factory ammo at $5 to $6 per 50 rounds reloaded using RMR FMJ bullets. While I do buy factory ammo (mostly 5.56 NATO), I do not buy pistol ammo as I can reload them cheaper and my reloads are much more accurate than factory.

I hope this helped.
 
Keep in mind, 9mm with small internal volume operating at higher pressures is sensitive to small changes in reloading variables (Such as OAL/bullet seating depth variance, Neck tension/bullet setback, Taper crimp amount, Powder forward/exposed primer when round is slammed/chambered, etc. etc.) which affects chamber pressure build/average peak pressures (Area under curve) that affects muzzle velocities (SD) and ultimately groups on target (Or shotgun pattern with lots of flyers).

There is zero evidence that smaller standard deviation of velocities produces smaller groups from a typical handgun at typical handgun distances. I have a great deal of evidence that shows there is no correlation between velocity spread and accuracy.

A recent comparison showed the smallest 50 shot group (1.5") at 25 yards (Ransom Rest) shot with Power Pistol had the largest spread (92 fps) and SD (22.8) compared to other powders with the same bullet. In fact the results showed a negative correlation between these measures.

Power Pistol is known to produce some of the most accurate loads in the 9mm, and it also has some of the widest velocity spreads as well.
 
There is zero evidence that smaller standard deviation of velocities produces smaller groups from a typical handgun at typical handgun distances. I have a great deal of evidence that shows there is no correlation between velocity spread and accuracy.
Many members know I posted previously on many occasions to agree with your post as I have gotten smaller groups with larger SD number loads.

My above post simply stated the fact of differing chamber pressures produce different muzzle velocities which SD number is derived from.

We are on the same page. :thumbup:
 
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