Thinking about getting a guard dog that could also hunt

[The Real Hawkeye]

Lemme try to make this simple. Get a hunting dog. The dog will naturally want to protect its "family." That's what they do. It may not attack an intruder--that's fine. All you really need it to do is sound the alarm and get in the intruder's face. Turns away all but the most serious agressors. And those, it'll at least slow down.

Individual dogs vary by personality. Some are naturally more paranoid than others. But most normal dogs learn pretty quick to understand who's "in the pack" and who's not.

Get a dog you'll enjoy. Most all hunting dogs will fit that bill. They'll do the protection thing by default.

When I got my dog (who is not a hunting dog, just a family dog), the thing I liked best is that I didn't feel the need to get up when things "go bump in the night." I learned pretty quick that, if it was anything to worry about, the dog would let me know. The only downside is, a neighbor cat in the yard is something she thinks I need to know about. But on those rare occasions when the neighbor teens came over to get one of my kids to sneak out, the dog made sure we knew something was up. That gave me confidence that NO ONE was going to get in, day or night, without facing the dog. And criminals do NOT want to face the dog.

I agree with everything you've said there. Even a Beagle can be a great alarm dog, and a barking German Shorthair will give anyone pause. I've had much better alarm dogs in the past than I have currently, and this disappoints me somewhat (though I'm very happy with my dog in general). Last night, for example, I was awakened by a loud banging noise that sounded to me to be coming from my workshop area outside. My dog seemed to wake from it too, but went right back to sleep, while it kept on happening. I was too tired to investigate, and it eventually stopped. Next morning all was normal, so it was probably a raccoon or something. But the point is that my Doberman, and both of my Shepherds would have been barking their heads off at that, and would not stop barking till I investigated with them. Oh well, I guess you can't always have everything you want in a dog. He does occasionally bark at noises, but only if he's not too comfortable in bed, and if he thinks it's serious enough to bother about.

 

[one-shot-one]

+1

Lemme try to make this simple. Get a hunting dog. The dog will naturally want to protect its "family." That's what they do. It may not attack an intruder--that's fine. All you really need it to do is sound the alarm and get in the intruder's face. Turns away all but the most serious agressors. And those, it'll at least slow down.

Individual dogs vary by personality. Some are naturally more paranoid than others. But most normal dogs learn pretty quick to understand who's "in the pack" and who's not.

Get a dog you'll enjoy. Most all hunting dogs will fit that bill. They'll do the protection thing by default.

When I got my dog (who is not a hunting dog, just a family dog), the thing I liked best is that I didn't feel the need to get up when things "go bump in the night." I learned pretty quick that, if it was anything to worry about, the dog would let me know. The only downside is, a neighbor cat in the yard is something she thinks I need to know about. But on those rare occasions when the neighbor teens came over to get one of my kids to sneak out, the dog made sure we knew something was up. That gave me confidence that NO ONE was going to get in, day or night, without facing the dog. And criminals do NOT want to face the dog.

dave r got it right, most bird (hunting) dogs if treated as part of the family will protect that family.
we have a springer spainel and while i have no dout that he would bite anyone tring to hurt my family he does not have the size/weight to be really effective, for what your asking my $0.02
1. german short or wire haired pointer.
2. any of the labs
3. chesapeak ret.

 

[Fletchette]

I hear the arguements from several of you to go with a "alarm dog" as opposed to a "guard dog". True, even a dimiutive Beagle (which I like, by the way) can be a very effective alarm dog. However, I am concerned with the very real scenario of a broad daylight knock on the door where the criminal talks for a moment and then forces their way in. In this scenario only a dog with that can back uip it's bark will be an effective deterent (or solution). My German Shepherd/mystery mix was great at this. In fact, I remember a few strange solicitors that really did not have much to say that I often wondered about in hindsight - were they really up to no good and got a good look at my buddy and decided to move on?

 

[jeepmor]

Alarm is better than nothing, but guard is preferred

Dogs seem to know the intentions of others before we do. I used to have a dog that would only bark when it was serious. I relied on it, so did my neighbors who were seriously doubtful until she alerted them of a 'suspicious' character casing the place. This may have been the same character she kept from coming in my window one hot summer night. I woke up to white teeth diving at the window in the dark. Never had a prowler in that residence again.

Miss that dog, she did both, guard and alarm. Now, I have only alarm dogs, so I purchased a pistol since guard duty is now mine. I love the dogs, but miss that first one, she was something special and everyone knew it. I had so many offers from friends and relatives that wanted that dog that it still amazes me how profoundly good of a dog she really was. BTW, she was a husky/shepard mix of some sort.

jeepmor

 

[Lupinus]

Try an Irish Wolfhound or Scottish Deerhound.

They are big...very big and very powerful. They were at one time banned by certian Nobels from being owned by peasents because they could easily take down the lords game stocks.

 

[bojangles]

IMHO your are looking for too many differant traits in one animal.

To find a dog that will hunt, point and retrieve birds, chase rabbits, and protect the house, kids, etc. The odds you'll find one dog to do all of that and do it all well. Almost zero.

I think you'll have to give priorty to one trait or the others and find that dog. German Short hairs are the best and smartest bird dogs I ever worked with. But..to use for security..forget about it!

Good Luck

 

[tater_salad]

One thing you have to consider when looking for a particular breed of dog are their 'drives.' A drive is an inate characteristic of a dog due to it's breeding and training for the same job for centuries. Hearding dogs have all been bred for that trait and have that 'drive' in them. Bird dogs have been trained and bred to hunt and they have that 'drive' in them. Unfortunately I cannot recall any dog that has ever been bred/trained for centuries for your two purposes. A drive is what makes different dogs the natural choice for different tasks because they're good at what they do, it really is their second nature.
I would agree with most of the members on this topic in saying that a guard dog may not be your best bet. They take a LOT of training to attatch their drives to your commands, and due to the nature of training for guard/protection, much of this cannot be acomplished without professional training, which is both time consuming and expensive. On the same token, a good protection dog will not make a good hunting dog and vice-versa as their drives are very different. You have to decide which is more important to you and go from there. IMHO, I would go with a hunting dog. Most hunting dogs (i.e. labs) are extremely loyal and eager to please, and with that are also fairly protective of their 'pack' - your family, and their territory - your house. They probably won't attack on command, but they will give you plenty of advanced warning to something suspicious. You don't want to send a dog to do a man's job do you?

 

[Fletchette]

You don't want to send a dog to do a man's job do you?

Ouch!

Thankfully, I am not one to take offense at things like this. I suspect from your post that, while the advice you gave was sincere, you probably did not read the whole thread. If you did, you would have noticed where I clarified that I would only go hunting occasionally and see this simply as an occasion to prevent the dog from being gun-shy.

As for whether defending the family is a man or canine job; it is my responsibility, even if I am not home. In that case, it is prudent to have a good, loyal and trustworthy dog that can prevent someone from a knock on door forced entry.

Now I'll return to my doghouse...

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Ouch!

Thankfully, I am not one to take offense at things like this. I suspect from your post that, while the advice you gave was sincere, you probably did not read the whole thread. If you did, you would have noticed where I clarified that I would only go hunting occasionally and see this simply as an occasion to prevent the dog from being gun-shy.

As for whether defending the family is a man or canine job; it is my responsibility, even if I am not home. In that case, it is prudent to have a good, loyal and trustworthy dog that can prevent someone from a knock on door forced entry.

Now I'll return to my doghouse...

Fletchette, your expectations are not unreasonable. If you can find a good breeder of Doberman Pinschers, you will do well with this breed. Make sure that you personally visit with adult dogs from the same breeding lines. If they don't have any to show you, find another breeder. You want to see that the adult dogs will approach you without fear. They should have a confident look, but not look like they want to tear you a new one, since you will have been welcomed into the house by their masters. If the adults seem shy, don't buy a puppy. If the adults seem silly and completely trusting of you, don't buy a puppy. The adults should seem fearless, yet suspicious, yet under control. If you find that the adults in the line are like that, you will have a dog that will protect your family, and no one but a total fool would ever push his buttons intentionally, or force his way into your house unless he were doing so with guns ablazing. Rapists and kidnappers don't do that, however, as it's way to noisy an approach. Unless you have a price on your head from the mob, a dog like that will contribute greatly to the security of your home, whether you are home or not. Oh, and you want to make sure the adult males are at least 85 pounds. I would recommend a male puppy too, as they are much more imposing to look at, and in a dog for this purpose, that's important. Just make sure you establish dominance from early puppyhood, and regularly remind the dog of that fact throughout its first year or two, and you will have no problems. Let me know if you want to know how that is done. Very important to take the puppy home with you at as close to exactly seven weeks old as possible. Good luck.

As for hunting, you'd be surprised at how well a Doberman can do in that role, either as a flusher or tracker, given the right training. They are rather hard mouthed for retrieving, though, and I don't know how well they'd take to pointing.

 

[tango3065]

My dog describes everything you are looking for he is a 1 1/2 year old labrador collie mix here he is at 70 lbs and growing.

 

[Havegunjoe]

My solution to this....

I hear the arguements from several of you to go with a "alarm dog" as opposed to a "guard dog". True, even a dimiutive Beagle (which I like, by the way) can be a very effective alarm dog. However, I am concerned with the very real scenario of a broad daylight knock on the door where the criminal talks for a moment and then forces their way in. In this scenario only a dog with that can back uip it's bark will be an effective deterent (or solution). My German Shepherd/mystery mix was great at this. In fact, I remember a few strange solicitors that really did not have much to say that I often wondered about in hindsight - were they really up to no good and got a good look at my buddy and decided to move on?

I have an alarm dog because I am armed even at home. The door bell rings I check out who is there through a side window first, while my lab is barking her brains out. When I open the door my hand is on my gun ready to draw. I don't let the visitor see this but I am ready if I don't know who is calling. It's your house, you can have your gun in your hand ready to go if you want.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

I have an alarm dog because I am armed even at home. The door bell rings I check out who is there through a side window first, while my lab is barking her brains out. When I open the door my hand is on my gun ready to draw. I don't let the visitor see this but I am ready if I don't know who is calling. It's your house, you can have your gun in your hand ready to go if you want.

I'm the same exact way, Havegunjoe.

 

[Billmanweh]

I have two dogs, a GSD (4 yo) and a Lab (14 months now)

I'll put it this way. The GSD is the best dog in the world. On the other hand, if you broke down my front door and proceeded to cut my head off with a big knife...as long as you happen to have a hot dog weiner in your pocket the Lab would be happy to follow you home.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Those two look like they're having the time of their lives.

 

[gp911]

re: Labs

A friend of mine growing up had a black Lab that loved to retrieve in water and barked his head off at anyone that came near, especially when the family wasn't home, regardless of whether or not he knew the person visiting. He also was protective enough that after a hard day of throwing him sticks and general messing around my friend twisted his ankle and when I was carrying him back on my back the dog was biting my ankles and shins the whole time and barking at me to PUT HIM DOWN.

After that dog passed away at about age 13 (dog's age) they replaced him with a yellow Lab that is fat, lazy, and runs away from strangers. It's a female that was bred from show stock and she can sit pretty and show all kinds of personality but hunting instincts and protection are foreign concepts to her.

So I guess what I'm saying is the right Lab can be a great do-it-all dog, but you'd have to know the bloodline to be sure...


gp911

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

I agree with checking into the bloodlines. If you are going to go with a sporting breed, definitely get one from a strain that was bred for the sport, not for show, that means NOT AKC. UKC is a good kennel club for performance breeds.

 

[North Texan]

You can get a lot of dogs to do some or most of the things you want, so long as you are willing to spend the time it takes to train them. My last dog filled the guard dog/hunting dog role well. He would bark when strange vehicles drove up, he was not shy about approaching people, but he didn't ever tear into anyone (except that darned hippie Schwann's man ), and he'd find and fetch dove. Of course, the only downside was he expected a dead bird on every shot. When the gun went off, he was out to get it. If there was no bird, he was coming back PO'd. He would also hunt and track a lot of other game, such as coons, possums, and bobcats. And he was really good at not letting them slip away in another tree.

I miss him.

 

[Fletchette]

I have an alarm dog because I am armed even at home. The door bell rings I check out who is there through a side window first, while my lab is barking her brains out. When I open the door my hand is on my gun ready to draw. I don't let the visitor see this but I am ready if I don't know who is calling. It's your house, you can have your gun in your hand ready to go if you want.

I do this as well. My wife is also accustomed to firearms. However, there is always that chance that a guest, mother-in-law or someone else makes a mistake. I'm not saying it is right, I am just saying that mistakes do happen. A good dog would help out a lot.

Billmanweh - is your lab eating out of the German Shepherd's mouth? Great picture.

Also, my wife and I have tenatively chosen to get two dogs - a Belgian Malinois and a Portugese Water Dog. Both functions should be adequately covered (plus they will have each other's company to quell boredom). I am thinking a male Belgian and a female Waterdog, mostly so there is less chance of dominance issues between them.

So, should I buy one before the other or both at the same time? Any suggestions?

 

[Billmanweh]

Billmanweh - is your lab eating out of the German Shepherd's mouth? Great picture.

As a little puppy, the Lab just wanted to playfully nip and bite at the GSD constantly and at some point the GSD would just get tired of it and put the Lab's entire head in his mouth. Kind of like, "ok, that's enough, take a chill pill".

 

[tater_salad]

Ouch!

Thankfully, I am not one to take offense at things like this. I suspect from your post that, while the advice you gave was sincere, you probably did not read the whole thread. If you did, you would have noticed where I clarified that I would only go hunting occasionally and see this simply as an occasion to prevent the dog from being gun-shy.

As for whether defending the family is a man or canine job; it is my responsibility, even if I am not home. In that case, it is prudent to have a good, loyal and trustworthy dog that can prevent someone from a knock on door forced entry.

Now I'll return to my doghouse...

Probably should have worded the last line better, no offense meant. My appologies.

 

[V4Vendetta]

That's a funny picture. My black lab would tear up everything. I had to replace the phone cord several times before I got rid of her. Now, I'm dogless. Anyone here have a dog that's cute, reasonably friendly, wary of strangers & doesn't chew up things? Please post a pic.

 

[fjolnirsson]

Anyone here have a dog that's cute, reasonably friendly, wary of strangers & doesn't chew up things?

I've got a Great Dane who fits that description. No pictures, though. Uncropped ears, she looks like a giant black lab to most people. Growls whenever someone comes near the house, but if I let them in, they're ok and she'll soon be sitting on their feet. No trouble with chewing past puppyhood, though our deck where we used to live had some large chunks missing, from an 80 lb "puppy" who was teething.
When I take her for walks, traffic slows down to look at her. If you get one, get obedience training early. Not a dog you want to have a dominance struggle with while walking down main street. Or anywhere else, for that matter!

 

[V4Vendetta]

I meant if you had a dog you didn't want. I can't go to Oregon for a dog though. Thanks anyway.

 

[chaim]

Also, my wife and I have tenatively chosen to get two dogs - a Belgian Malinois and a Portugese Water Dog. Both functions should be adequately covered (plus they will have each other's company to quell boredom). I am thinking a male Belgian and a female Waterdog, mostly so there is less chance of dominance issues between them.

So, should I buy one before the other or both at the same time? Any suggestions?

I was going to suggest (based on some members here suggesting that one dog that does everything isn't likely) considering two dogs. Plus, dogs (like people) are very social animals and you are going to have a happier dog if it has company when you are at work (and you are less likely to come home to chewed up furniture).

Also, I wonder if a mutt would be a better one dog for every job kind of dog. Get one that is a cross between two breeds that are good for the various jobs you are looking for. While sometimes they may take after one breed more than the other, it seems that generally you are likely to get one with fewer health or personality issues if you don't get a purebred (I guess due to interbreeding).

I never owned a dog, but my best friend growing up did. He had a medium dog (a mutt) that, other than his size, looked just like a doberman. When on his leash in his yard the dog was EXTREMELY territorial and agressive. If you didn't belong there you better not get too close (I was pretty much the only non-family member he allowed approach him or the house when he was on his leash, and then probably only because I was the one who took care of him when the family was away). But get this dog in the house and he was incredibly friendly with anyone who was obviously welcomed by the family (I've no idea how he'd react to a home invasion since inside he usually assumed was OK). Heck, I remember one day my friend, my brother and I decided to play fight and pretend that we were attacking my friend (my brother and I against him) to see how the dog would react. Well, the dog sure did react- he thought it looked like a fun game and jumped onto my friend (his owner) as well, and the dog got pretty agressive with him. Of course, had it been a real attack, or had my brother and I been strangers, I think the dog's reaction would have been much different. At minimum, he was a great alarm (ANYONE walks near the door and he was REALLY barking- hey, they were outside and thus a threat).

 

[fjolnirsson]

I meant if you had a dog you didn't want.

LOL. I get it, now.