Training for HD overrated?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've never hunted deer, but I do hunt upland birds. My first time out hunting was only about seven years ago, although I had a fair amount of experience shooting clay targets in competition.

Anyway, we were hunting pheasant, and the first couple of times the dog flushed a bird for me, I was completely flummoxed. It was so different from the way a clay target presented, I tensed up and was caught off guard. I couldn't get my eyes on the bird, and my eyes were going one way and my hands another. So I wound up standing there like an idiot watching a couple of nice, plump pheasant fly off.
 
If you read accounts of people defending their homes two things become obvious.

There's no denying that untrained people do a pretty good job of defending their homes with firearms.

On the other hand, when you read about people shooting themselves in self-defense encounters, making extremely ill-advised comments after a shooting, or making other very basic mistakes there's no way to deny that more training/practice is almost always valuable.
 
Must average folks don't have a place to get any training like might be needed during a home invasion or even up close and personal type. The average gun range only wants slow fire and NO drawing,no double taps so you go to a competitive type match so at least you draw, move and fire multi times. So unless you have some extra money doing nothing you can't go to black water or gunsite either. You train at the local range so muscle memory is second nature and point and shoot at close distance is good. If a person is also a hunter you my have the shoot to kill and stalking covered, you might have better control of yourself under a high stress time. But most of us just hope to be in better control than the BG if and when the sh*t hits the fan. I am a hunter with bow and gun includeing pistols and do enjoy the closeing moments before the kill or the attempt. I do have a place to practice draw and fire but still with all the real world type training you could buy you just don't know how you will react untill the real thing happends. 26 years of carry and never pulled a handgun, so far. I have also grown to hate these tv self defence shows with there over the top trainers. With shotguns,rifles and a bunch of handguns my primary defence weapon is a high cap. handgun first and foremost. Takes two hands with a shotgun or rifle.
 
"In a fight for your life you will never wish you had less training!"

like having a savings account what can it hurt for you to get training. it can only help.

i personally believe that everyone should seek out and attend training. i personally under any circumstances, and in every conceivable situation be as lethal as humanly possible.

do you have to have training to defend your home? no technically no. However i said defend your home, not going on the offense. i do not suggest that you try to "clear" your home, unless it is absolutly necessary. clearing rooms for a team of well trained individuals is a tough and very dangerous task, much less for a single individual. would i do it if i had too? of course. do i know how to? yes however i do not want to have to do it.

have a plan. the way my home is set up, i really don't have to do much clearing or go on the offense. the 2 entrances to my house are on one side, my bed room and my 2 childrens bedrooms are all next to each other.

my plan is as follows. i grab the handgun with light and phone, the wife gets the shotgun, we move together, i cover the hall while she grabs the oldest and she moves to the youngest room, when in the second room i move in after her, we barricade the door and we hold there while waiting for the police.
 
Lee's post was awesome! I agree with cultivating the proper mindset. I have been carrying for nearly 20 years, and I try to stay ready and aware of my surroundings. Today I was with my son @ Wataburger, enjoying a meal. I heard a realy loud pop, and just froze. It took 3 or 4 seconds to realize one of the kids working the register was clowning around & popped a balloon. I thought I was ready, but I wasn't.

For HD, we have a more formal plan & an alarm set to instant arm whenever we are in for the night. Every window & door is wired. It is extremely loud, and has a battery backup in a locked interior steal case. My 12 gage has a 150 lumen light on it, and I have fired more shotgun rounds than any other type of weapon. Still, when a storm recently rattled the windows enough to trigger the alarm, it was the wife, not the siren waking me up. It took another 6 or 7 seconds to get my glasses on & the 12 gage shouldered. Another minute or so to clear the house, when clearing the house was not part of the plan. Of course, the chamber was empty, because I was half aleep with the adrenelin racing. Training helps that; just shooting doesn't. I have been looking into more formal training, and may be heading up to TR. I should have gone when they were still in Texas; the original Thunder Ranch was 20 miles away.
 
It's a bad move to underestimate your opponent. Some of you may have seen the report attached here, some may not have seen it, but it might be worth your reading if you haven't seen it. Note that this appeared in 2006, I think it was reported on and discussed here at THR at the time.

Also note that the same sort of people who give cops trouble as described here may well be the same people showing up at/in your house with criminal intent.

Bolding is mine, and not original...

lpl
=======================
http://www.forcesciencenews.com/home/detail.html?serial=62

I. NEW FINDINGS FROM FBI ABOUT COP ATTACKERS & THEIR WEAPONS

New findings on how offenders train with, carry and deploy the weapons they use to attack police officers have emerged in a just-published, 5-year study by the FBI.

Among other things, the data reveal that most would-be cop killers:

--show signs of being armed that officers miss;

--have more experience using deadly force in "street combat" than their intended victims;

--practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately;

--have no hesitation whatsoever about pulling the trigger. "If you hesitate," one told the study's researchers, "you're dead. You have the instinct or you don't. If you don't, you're in trouble on the street...."

These and other weapons-related findings comprise one chapter in a 180-page research summary called "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers." The study is the third in a series of long investigations into fatal and nonfatal attacks on POs by the FBI team of Dr. Anthony Pinizzotto, clinical forensic psychologist, and Ed Davis, criminal investigative instructor, both with the Bureau's Behavioral Science Unit, and Charles Miller III, coordinator of the LEOs Killed and Assaulted program.

"Violent Encounters" also reports in detail on the personal characteristics of attacked officers and their assaulters, the role of perception in life-threatening confrontations, the myths of memory that can hamper OIS investigations, the suicide-by-cop phenomenon, current training issues, and other matters relevant to officer survival. (Force Science News and our strategic partner PoliceOne.com will be reporting on more findings from this landmark study in future transmissions.)

Commenting on the broad-based study, Dr. Bill Lewinski, executive director of the Force Science Research Center at Minnesota State University-Mankato, called it "very challenging and insightful--important work that only a handful of gifted and experienced researchers could accomplish."

From a pool of more than 800 incidents, the researchers selected 40, involving 43 offenders (13 of them admitted gangbangers-drug traffickers) and 50 officers, for in-depth exploration. They visited crime scenes and extensively interviewed surviving officers and attackers alike, most of the latter in prison.

Here are highlights of what they learned about weapon selection, familiarity, transport and use by criminals attempting to murder cops, a small portion of the overall research:

WEAPON CHOICE.

Predominately handguns were used in the assaults on officers and all but one were obtained illegally, usually in street transactions or in thefts. In contrast to media myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows. What was available "was the overriding factor in weapon choice," the report says. Only 1 offender hand-picked a particular gun "because he felt it would do the most damage to a human being."

Researcher Davis, in a presentation and discussion for the International Assn. of Chiefs of Police, noted that none of the attackers interviewed was "hindered by any law--federal, state or local--that has ever been established to prevent gun ownership. They just laughed at gun laws."

FAMILIARITY.

Several of the offenders began regularly to carry weapons when they were 9 to 12 years old, although the average age was 17 when they first started packing "most of the time." Gang members especially started young.

Nearly 40% of the offenders had some type of formal firearms training, primarily from the military. More than 80% "regularly practiced with handguns, averaging 23 practice sessions a year," the study reports, usually in informal settings like trash dumps, rural woods, back yards and "street corners in known drug-trafficking areas."

One spoke of being motivated to improve his gun skills by his belief that officers "go to the range two, three times a week [and] practice arms so they can hit anything."

In reality, victim officers in the study averaged just 14 hours of sidearm training and 2.5 qualifications per year. Only 6 of the 50 officers reported practicing regularly with handguns apart from what their department required, and that was mostly in competitive shooting. Overall, the offenders practiced more often than the officers they assaulted, and this "may have helped increase [their] marksmanship skills," the study says.

The offender quoted above about his practice motivation, for example, fired 12 rounds at an officer, striking him 3 times. The officer fired 7 rounds, all misses.

More than 40% of the offenders had been involved in actual shooting confrontations before they feloniously assaulted an officer. Ten of these "street combat veterans," all from "inner-city, drug-trafficking environments," had taken part in 5 or more "criminal firefight experiences" in their lifetime.

One reported that he was 14 when he was first shot on the street, "about 18 before a cop shot me." Another said getting shot was a pivotal experience "because I made up my mind no one was gonna shoot me again."

Again in contrast, only 8 of the 50 LEO victims had participated in a prior shooting; 1 had been involved in 2 previously, another in 3. Seven of the 8 had killed offenders.


CONCEALMENT.

The offenders said they most often hid guns on their person in the front waistband, with the groin area and the small of the back nearly tied for second place. Some occasionally gave their weapons to another person to carry, "most often a female companion." None regularly used a holster, and about 40% at least sometimes carried a backup weapon.

In motor vehicles, they most often kept their firearm readily available on their person, or, less often, under the seat. In residences, most stashed their weapon under a pillow, on a nightstand, under the mattress--somewhere within immediate reach while in bed.

Almost all carried when on the move and strong majorities did so when socializing, committing crimes or being at home. About one-third brought weapons with them to work. Interestingly, the offenders in this study more commonly admitted having guns under all these circumstances than did offenders interviewed in the researchers' earlier 2 surveys, conducted in the 1980s and '90s.

According to Davis, "Male offenders said time and time again that female officers tend to search them more thoroughly than male officers. In prison, most of the offenders were more afraid to carry contraband or weapons when a female CO was on duty."

On the street, however, both male and female officers too often regard female subjects "as less of a threat, assuming that they not going to have a gun," Davis said. In truth, the researchers concluded that more female offenders are armed today than 20 years ago--"not just female gang associates, but female offenders generally."

SHOOTING STYLE.

Twenty-six of the offenders [about 60%], including all of the street combat veterans, "claimed to be instinctive shooters, pointing and firing the weapon without consciously aligning the sights," the study says.

"They practice getting the gun out and using it," Davis explained. "They shoot for effect." Or as one of the offenders put it: "[W]e're not working with no marksmanship....We just putting it in your direction, you know....It don't matter...as long as it's gonna hit you...if it's up at your head or your chest, down at your legs, whatever....Once I squeeze and you fall, then...if I want to execute you, then I could go from there."

HIT RATE.

More often than the officers they attacked, offenders delivered at least some rounds on target in their encounters. Nearly 70% of assailants were successful in that regard with handguns, compared to about 40% of the victim officers, the study found. (Efforts of offenders and officers to get on target were considered successful if any rounds struck, regardless of the number fired.)

Davis speculated that the offenders might have had an advantage because in all but 3 cases they fired first, usually catching the officer by surprise. Indeed, the report points out, "10 of the total victim officers had been wounded [and thus impaired] before they returned gunfire at their attackers."

MISSED CUES.

Officers would less likely be caught off guard by attackers if they were more observant of indicators of concealed weapons, the study concludes. These particularly include manners of dress, ways of moving and unconscious gestures often related to carrying.

"Officers should look for unnatural protrusions or bulges in the waist, back and crotch areas," the study says, and watch for "shirts that appear rippled or wavy on one side of the body while the fabric on the other side appears smooth." In warm weather, multilayered clothing inappropriate to the temperature may be a giveaway. On cold or rainy days, a subject's jacket hood may not be covering his head because it is being used to conceal a handgun.

Because they eschew holsters, offenders reported frequently touching a concealed gun with hands or arms "to assure themselves that it is still hidden, secure and accessible" and hasn't shifted. Such gestures are especially noticeable "whenever individuals change body positions, such as standing, sitting or exiting a vehicle." If they run, they may need to keep a constant grip on a hidden gun to control it.

Just as cops generally blade their body to make their sidearm less accessible, armed criminals "do the same in encounters with LEOs to ensure concealment and easy access."

An irony, Davis noted, is that officers who are assigned to look for concealed weapons, while working off-duty security at night clubs for instance, are often highly proficient at detecting them. "But then when they go back to the street without that specific assignment, they seem to 'turn off' that skill," and thus are startled--sometimes fatally--when a suspect suddenly produces a weapon and attacks.

MIND-SET.

Thirty-six of the 50 officers in the study had "experienced hazardous situations where they had the legal authority" to use deadly force "but chose not to shoot." They averaged 4 such prior incidents before the encounters that the researchers investigated. "It appeared clear that none of these officers were willing to use deadly force against an offender if other options were available," the researchers concluded.

The offenders were of a different mind-set entirely. In fact, Davis said the study team "did not realize how cold blooded the younger generation of offender is. They have been exposed to killing after killing, they fully expect to get killed and they don't hesitate to shoot anybody, including a police officer. They can go from riding down the street saying what a beautiful day it is to killing in the next instant."

"Offenders typically displayed no moral or ethical restraints in using firearms," the report states. "In fact, the street combat veterans survived by developing a shoot-first mentality.

"Officers never can assume that a criminal is unarmed until they have thoroughly searched the person and the surroundings themselves." Nor, in the interest of personal safety, can officers "let their guards down in any type of law enforcement situation."

NOTE: For new findings from the FBI researchers about highly dangerous suicide-by-cop confrontations, read the exclusive 2-part report by Force Science Research Center board member Chuck Remsberg at:

http://www.policeone.com//suicide-by-cop/articles/1195055/
 
IMO, weekly trips to the target range shooting at paper plates and stationary targets are just a wast of time for the shooter who has done this hundreds of times or more. If you cannot simulate a real life scenario like drawing and firing while moving, reloading etc. it's like playing a video game over and over, and gets boring. Double taps racking the slide with either hand and doing it in a dark shooting room with flip up targets is really the only way to train for a gunfight.
 
So you don't believe that shooting is a perishable skill?

I think shooting the center ring on a paper target is. When going to the range I usually shoot much better at the end than at the beggining (I get to the range every couple months).

But, even my starting shots would be COM hits.
 
mindset, tactics, skills, gear, in that order.

Mindset: you need to posses the mindset amd the will to win to defend your home, your family and yourself, and or to win a fight.

Tactics: you need to know proper tactics to use in the above.

Skill: i consider this skill in manipulation and shooting more than your skill to accomplish the tactics that you know. yes it is important to be a skillful shooter, however with the mindset and the tactics you will come out farther than you would at just being a skilled shooter.

Gear: all the best gear in the world is great to have, it is the person using the gear/ tools knows how too, and has the will to win.

I have learned alot about shooting in training courses, and alot about fighting. i have learned a great deal about mindset and tactics as well. The naysayers of training should seek out and attend training, and see what you don't know. i will make you this promise.. one day when i am a certified instructor i will offer you free training just bring yourself, gun and ammo, and if you learned something then you just got a great deal. if not.... well you got a trip to the range out of it. i will be on this forum until one it either is no longer avaliable, or until i die. so hit me up with this promise and i will see it through.
 
The wrong kind of training can get you killed too.

As a Marine Corps pilot I was issued a 1911A1 (my first handgun) and trained to use it. The nature of our missions necessitated that we carry AK-47s due to the sound signature of the M-16. I used the AK on almost every mission and never had the occasion to use the pistol in battle.

When I musterd out of the USMC my skillset directed me to a police dept. with an aviation unit. There we were required to carry revolvers and use them in the double action mode almost without exception. Revolvers were new to me, but by the time I finished training I qualified as an NRA Police "Expert". The highest level was "Distinguished Expert" and I set that as my goal and also for a spot on the pistol team.

Because of the double action requirement and to facilitate doing well in PPC competition, a range instructor showed me how to "stage" a revolver. In staging you begin by rapidly pressing the trigger, but not so far as to let the hammer fall. This spins the cylinder so the next charge hole locks up in line with the barrel leaving a shorter and lighter pull to drop the hammer. Good for PPC - Bad for combat!

My first police shooting did not occur until after 4 years of qualifications and competitions had passed using the staging technique. When I appeared on the scene the perp had committed 3 counts of aggravated assult with a firearm and 1 count of aggravated battery with it as well - and I got the call as a domestic dispute! Upon seeing me he opened fire and missed me by about 6 inches at which time I drew and fired 5 shots quickly without staging the revolver. The truth is that I lucked out and hit him once in the head - not where I was aiming! The other 4 shots impacted the wall around him and it looked like I fired at him with an imp. cyl. choked shotgun at 25 yards.

After that day I gave up PPC so I wouldn't inadvertantly slip into the staging mode and only trained in the combat technique. I got a second chance and I was going to do my best not to screw it up.

Someone once said, "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect." IMO you should get the best training you can afford and maintain it - lives, including your own, may depend on it.
 
Last edited:
It is hard to say what proficiency level is required for any situation to reasonably come out on top. A few months ago I fired my pocket 9mm CCW at the firing range. I hadn't done so in a long time. I accidently released the magazine under recoil on the first or second shot. I consider myself pretty good with gun handling, but when you're rusty, especially with a certain weapon, shift happens.
 
Get training...

1. A friend of mine... a very intelligent fellow... did a very stupid thing... violate "the four rules" last night, as he was inspecting a friend's gun. He pulled the trigger, pointing the gun at wall (in which three other people were on the other side of that thin drywall). I quickly reminded him of his error...in which he replied, "but the safety is on"!!! Now, he is no rookie with a gun. He has been an owner for many years.....but, no formal training. But it was obvious to me that he has formed bad and dangerous habits. He definitely should have had professional training.

2. Second reason to get training... on legal grounds, one is less likely to be charged with negligence (all things being equal) if one has the "training credentials" to back one up.
 
I have to ask this, so please don't take it the wrong way. Why was he even inspecting a firearm with a house full of people. You need to explain to him that he should never take his or anyone else’s firearm out in a house full of people, let alone pull the trigger. I think that gun ownership is reaching the same group of people who used to “Bowl every week”. "Nothing against Bowling", but the stuff I see and here and elseware, makes me wonder if perhaps this new fascination with "home defense" is possibly reaching the danger stage. Many people have just don't have any common sense. If you pulled out a pistol in any of my fathers, or uncles homes, with a house full of women and kids, you would get slapped so hard you would never do it again. And to pull the trigger of any firearm that doesn’t belong to you is both dangerous and insulting. He should have gone into a basement or waited until he was alone with the friend, and then let the friend "clear" the weapon, hand it to him and he should have then done another check to make sure the gun was indeed empty. At that point he could ask if it were ok to squeeze the trigger while pointing the gun is a safe direction.
 
I have to ask this, so please don't take it the wrong way. Why was he even inspecting a firearm with a house full of people. You need to explain to him that he should never take his or anyone else’s firearm out in a house full of people, let alone pull the trigger.

What? There's nothing wrong with safely examining a firearm in a house full of people. The difference is doing it properly, as he stated.

He should have gone into a basement or waited until he was alone with the friend,
Because if the weapon discharged the bullet would never penetrate the floor or basement windows?

*facepalm*

You're confusing your house with the rest of the world where those of us who have training or learned skills are okay with safely handling a firearm around

I'm a grown man. You know what happens if I have an ND and hurt someone? So do I. I choose to be responsible.
He made a point that illustrated his friend was deficient in training using an illustrative example. No need to ride the point into crazy town talking about hiding in the basement and such.
 
While I know that 'anecdotes do not equal data,' this story indicates the dangers of acting in 'raw fear' and without properly analyzing the situation before responding. I understand that training is no guaranteed proof against such things, but it is IMHO worth pursuing as a possible innoculation against this sort of thing happening.

lpl
=====================
http://www.wftv.com/news/21251116/detail.html

Man Shoots, Kills Fiancee Day Before Wedding
Posted: 12:30 pm EDT October 9, 2009Updated: 1:09 am EDT October 10, 2009

WINTER SPRINGS, Fla. -- A Winter Springs couple was supposed to get married Saturday, but now the woman is dead and police say her fiancee pulled the trigger. Friday, the man told police it was all a horrible accident.

John Tabbutt, 62, says he thought a burglar was breaking into his house in the Georgetown area of the Tuskawilla neighborhood. Tabbutt fired his gun toward a shadow in the darkness and hit Nancy Dinsmore in the chest. In the 911 call, he told police he was only a day away from marrying the woman he'd just killed.

911 CALL: Man Calls 911 After Shooting Fiancee - EXPLICIT AUDIO

Family members who pulled up and quickly closed the garage door at the man's home around noon wouldn't talk about the shooting that took place just hours earlier. In the frantic 911 call, Tabbutt said he woke up a little before 3:00am, saw a shadow in the hall and fired, thinking his fiancee was an intruder.

"I thought I had an intruder in the house and I shot the intruder. But the intruder was my wife," Tabbutt said in the 911 call.

"It's shocking, shocking. This has gotta be one of the quietest, friendliest neighborhoods I've ever lived in," neighbor Susan Tesauro said.

Tabbutt and Dinsmore were set to be married at St. Stephen's Catholic Church in Winter Springs Saturday at 11:00am.

"We were supposed to get married this Saturday," Tabbutt told the 911 dispatcher.
For now, police say the evidence supports Tabbutt's claim that this was simply a terrible accident with terrible timing.

"The initial investigation and site at the scene does not indicate any type of foul play," Winter Springs Police Chief Kevin Brunelle said.

Police confirm the couple had no history of domestic violence. Even in an area this safe, some neighbors couldn't help but sympathize with Tabbutt's instinct to protect himself.
"I would have suspected it could have been a burglar. I mean, that's always your first thought," Tesauro said.

Tabbutt faces no charges right now. Eyewitness New has learned that Tabbutt is very distraught and grieving with family.
Police say they have to wait for forensic and toxicology evidence before completely clearing him.
 
Lee,

I guess it depends on the training you get. Lots of people here equate training with going out shooting frequently, ect. Probably far fewer people here have had any "clear the house of robbers whie not shooting friendlies" training, which outside of common sense, was probably the usefull skill to have at the time.
 
Kindrox said:
...Lots of people here equate training with going out shooting frequently, ect. Probably far fewer people here have had any "clear the house of robbers whie not shooting friendlies" training, which outside of common sense, was probably the usefull skill to have at the time.
First, of course training should be good training with qualified professionals. Second, one of the most basic things that decent training should teach it not to fire until you have identified your target (and not to go out "house clearing").

Third, good training gives one the confidence to assess the situation before firing. The proficient person is confident of his skills and therefore is focused on identifying the situation and making the decision, rather than wondering how to make the gun work and whether he can hit the target.

The case Lee relates seems to be a tragic, yet classic, example of the nervous and uncertain defender panicking.
 
I think it's hard to knock any kind of training you can do. It doesn't have to be the expensive kind - in your home defense scenario, probably the most important is, as others have said, to have some sort of drilled plan, so you have at least some chance of autopiloting when scared to death and half asleep; it will help focus and be less hesitant. Just thinking about it a lot is training. Just working through some scenarios is training. The ability to think about what might be ahead of time again will reduce hesitation that will occur if unthought of.

As well - going to the range regularly cannot hurt, even if you just shoot static targets. If nothing else, every time you handle that weapon, you are slowly but surely drilling something in. Put some random empty cases in your mags and practice stoppage drills too - it will all help. Probably the most important thing going to the range does is give you the confidence to know that you can rapidly present and put rounds into a chest sized target quickly - train for that.

Every little helps, IMO - sure, you might be alright just winging it - but why take that chance?
 
Last edited:
Tabbutt didn't seem to have any trouble hitting what he shot at. Whether he practiced often or not is unknown.

What he seems to have had trouble with however was target ID and target discrimination. In other words, Rule 4.

The basics- the essentials- of any informal or formal training (there's that word again) with firearms I have ever received or given have always started with something like this:

We hoped by this time that the standard rules of safe gunhandling would have become universal throughout the world. They have been arrived at by careful consideration over the years, and they do not need modification or addition. We trust that all the family have them by heart in all languages, but for those who came in late here they are again:

1) All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)

3) Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.

4) Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

Those will do. We need all four and we do not need five. It should not be necessary to belabor this issue, but life is not perfect.
- Jeff Cooper's Commentaries (Previously Gunsite Gossip) - Vol. 11, No. 4; April 2003
- http://harris.dvc.org.uk/jeff/jeff11_4.html

Well, that's straight from the horse's mouth, and about as plain as it gets. I have to wonder if this poor man ever heard any version of those words ever before though? In a hunter safety class, a concealed carry permit class, any kind of class, ever, anywhere?

And just as critically- has everyone here had that little lecture pounded into them to the degree that it's reflexive at this point? By fathers, grandfathers, uncles, DIs, FTOs, or whoever else?

If not, then I sincerely hope a cure for that significant shortcoming will be sought by every individual here who needs it as soon as possible. That's what training is for after all... to try and make sure the trainees do right under pressure, when it counts.

lpl
 
As a pre-note, the only reason I’m responding to this is to help someone who might be on the fence, debating as to whether or not they need training. For those who have already made up their minds I truly hope that you’re right & your fight is as easy as you think it will be. As for me, I’m stacking the odds in my favor as much as possible. This is not an attack on anyone here, but on the piss-poor Training, We Don’t Need No Stinkin’ Training! mindset.

Are we honestly having this discussion again? The answer to Lee’s why is there so much resistance to training question (and I think we can all agree that Lee knows the answer already) is ignorance, apathy, ego & laziness. Any or all of those could be in a particular individual’s reasoning, but those are the Devil’s Big 4.

Can you safely handle your weapon in a confined & crowed area with people around you that don't deserve to be shot? How sure are you really? No, really.

Mindset is absolutely critical & more important than any other aspect. That said, if you cannot effectively deliver that Mindset through your tactics, skill & equipment then you might as well have been one of Paul Howe’s Certified Grass Eaters & kept your head buried in your text messages & pinned between your ipod earphones because it won’t do you any good. You could be the most Mindset-having stud in the world but if you’re dropped into the mountains of Afghanistan with a rusty Swiss Army Knife & a banana hammock you’re done for.

If you think you have the right Mindset, but fail to train, your Mindset actually sucks.

As for the training itself there are things you’ll be exposed to that you wouldn’t otherwise see. Common mistakes that we’ve all made can be quickly & easily corrected in a safe & learning-biased environment as opposed to having a bad guy put a round in your foot because you can’t use cover effectively or sneak up behind you & club you while you’re fixating on the guy with the rap who has, as he planned to, drawn you in & distracted you with some meaningless BS.

I’ve seen people who would call themselves shooters in a relaxed environment completely miss a man-size target at 3 yards. For every one of the non-trained folks out there thinking “That’s not me!” it is you. Factor in that you’re fighting a reactive fight for the most part, the general grogginess of waking up in the middle of the night & the mental game that everyone plays known as This Can’t Be Happening & your ability to make solid, fight-stopping hits, let alone good tactical decisions has decreased considerably.

You do not have to be a 2.25sec (from concealment) Bill Drill shooter, a BJJ black belt or a CrossFit games competitor to win a fight, but none of those things will hurt your chances when applied with the proper Mindset.

Your notice that the game is afoot may very well be when you’re clubbed upside the head, mounted by your rapist or shot in your bed & things go downhill very quickly.

If you end up bleeding out on the floor listening to Homie McSagginbritchez & his buddies gang-rape your wife & child you certainly won’t be thinking that you should have spent more time on the couch pounding down Chee-tos & Mountain Dew to the sultry sounds of American Idol.
 
Yeah training helps but nothing beats experience unfortunately. Some one mentioned bird hunting and that he was off some for the first couple birds. The reason the bird activated his startle response, That type of hunting teaches you to modify the response into an affirmative action. Training helps do the same while teaching the skill set.



Jim
 
I can say this. Louis Awerbuck costs more than a good movie, but it lasts three days and it's a lot more entertaining to boot 8^). But training doesn't have to be a top name professional instructor- most of the local NRA instructors do a really good job, and don't cost a lot. And there are a lot of other local instructors as well, with LE or military backgrounds, who do a creditable job yet won't break the bank. Training doesn't have to cost a fortune or take place a thousand miles away to help you improve your personal odds of getting it right in a pinch.

Amen!

I also enjoy'd Lee Lapin's first post in this thread.

If I can do a BETTER job of defending my family than yes, I am sure as heck going to be training my butt off every chance I get. Whether it is running scenarios with gas powered airsoft guns with my friends on the weekends or taking a local force on force class with a certified instructor I want to be ready.

~Norinco
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top