TSA: If you can't stop me, how are you going to stop anybody?

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grimjaw

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Had to fly from Great Lakes area to Pacific Northwest today for work. I checked one bag, carried on a second one (looks like this) I'm extremely anal about my bag and what's in it, especially after TSA confiscated my favorite PC toolkit of all time because I forgot about it. I also had a TSA employee nearly poke me in the eye with a small pair of scissors I'd forgotten in a bathroom kit ('DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS IS?!?') I also have to run this bag through a xray checkpoint at a federal building daily, and I rarely change its contents. The only questionable item I was aware of in my luggage was a folding knife of about four inches in length, and that was checked.

At the TSA Stop & Rob checkpoint, I stripped down as requested, removed the laptop from the bag, and ran it through. After scanning it, the xray screener picks it up and asks who it belongs to. I acknowledge its mine, and he tells me he's going to run it through again. I usually carry cameras and a laptop in that bag, and it's not unusual for the screeners to at least ask about it. Apparently the batteries for those devices throw up a red flag sometimes. He runs it through again, no problems. I pick it up, put the laptop back inside, get dressed, and go to my gate.

At the gate, I rummage through the bag looking for some gum. At the bottom of the bag, I grasp what I realize is the knife I usually carry to work. I had forgotten it was in there. It's a small folding type with a plastic handle, looks like this except smaller, less than 5" total length, with the serration filed off. The federal building doesn't prohibit this knife, but TSA most certainly does, and the guy missed it TWICE.

What I wonder is how many other mistakes like this they make? I forgot the knife was in there. Would it have been that much harder for someone to do this on purpose? Did he see the knife and make a judgement call, thinking I looked unterrorist-like?

I have mixed feelings about the increased security. I'm not going to go on a rant now about what I think is wrong with security in this country, but feel free to discuss yourselves.

jmm
 
TSA searches are NOT about making travel safer, they are NOT about keeping terrorists off our planes and they are NOT about preventing someone from getting on board with weapons.


Its all about low level government thugs putting you serfs in your place where you belong ... its part of an overall campaign to make compliant sheep out of the people so when the SERIOUS violations of human rights occur well all quietly stand in line and not give the soldiers loading us on the cattle cars any trouble.
 
Zundfolge,

I agree 100% with you on that. But......


Watch out, you will get this thread closed with that attitude. Anti government remarks against LE or quasi LE agencies are verboten.
 
it's generally not a good idea to admit committing crimes. better to just scratch your head and get on with your life, than to embarrass a bureaucrat and wind up with a criminal record because your forgot something.


vern, yeah, if he'd had a coffee can in there, he'd have gotten caught for sure
 
Watch out, you will get this thread closed with that attitude. Anti government remarks against LE or quasi LE agencies are verboten.

I agree with Zundfolge too, in fact a mod here started a thread like this a while back I believe. So that is not what gets the threads closed it is piling on and outrageous one sided remarks that do .
 
it's generally not a good idea to admit committing crimes.

I didn't say I got on the plane with it. I found the knife at the gate before boarding.

I don't know that I'd agree with the idea that it's not about keeping weapons off of planes. I don't know that it's ever going to be effective without bringing air travel to a complete halt, though.

jmm
 
No security procedure is 100% perfect. What it does do is add the element of uncertainty to the mind of those who wish harm. For you, a 10% failure rate is too much, but to a terrorist, a 10% chance of being caught is too much.
 
Problem with that statement Rebar is that the TSA's own tests show they are still missing the exact same number of contraband items as the private screeners did way back when. All they've accomplished is to get honest folk to voluntarily remove scissors, nail files and the then legal <3" blades that the 9/11 hijackers chose not to use.

The current blade and sharp object prohibitions are demonstrably useless and asinine on their face. Designed solely as a feel good measure for the ignorant.

Give me and everybody else back our pocketknives and the plane is, if anything, safer, certainly no more at risk than now.
 
I do think private-sector screeners would do a better job, then government union slugs.
 
Slugs or not, the 9/11 screeners didn't technically "miss" anything. It was legal to carry 2.5" knives, who cares about a mere box cutter, even if on the "not allowed list"?

Heck, I STILL don't care about box cutters. The hijackers could have had much more effective, totally legal, weapons with them, I've never heard any reason they didn't; other than perhaps ignorance of what was actually allowed.
 
I think private security could do the same job. Just have some TSA folks around to supervise. It would be a lot cheaper too. The money saved could be used for better security measures.
 
In case anyone is missing my point, I want to stop having to check my Leatherman and Delica for absolutely stupid and logically indefensible reasons.

Heck, I bought the smooth Delica solely for a "travel knife". :fire:
 
Late last year, I took my mom to PIT for a flight to DFW.

She just turned 90, so, as you can guess, she needed a little help. I got volunteered to go through Security and take her to the gate.

A call to the airline confirmed that I could do that as long as I stopped at the airline's ticket counter to get a boarding pass.

The gal at the counter didn't want to give me one.... "We don't do that...."

As the steam started coming out of my ears, she relented. (I didn't say a word, but between me and mom, in a wheelchair, the responsibility of getting her to the gate, plus the likelyhood of a discrimination lawsuit - all kinds of witnesses - might have percolated to the top.)

When we got to the security area, one of the gals took my pass, and directed me to take mom through the "tape" to a special area. In there, they asked for my pass, and then directed me back through the tape to pass through the regular line.

Remember those little screwdrivers that Sears used to give away (or sometimes sell) - about the size of a fifty-cent piece, with little "blades" sticking out as various sized screwdrivers. The gal at the x-ray had to go ask about it! (They let me keep it.) Sheesh....

(On the plus side, the TSA and other Security types I met that day were polite, and some were friendly. All seemed reasonably professional. The only negative encounter was the Airline's gal at the ticket counter, if you don't count the PITA factor.)

What's wrong with this picture? Well, if the airlines have hardened the flight deck ("cockpit") and hopefully armed the pilots, the only thing they really should be looking for are weapons capable of getting past the flight deck doors or explosives. Otherwise, the aircraft and it's contents are now essentially expendable, so why bother with the inconvenience?

Besides, they're now going to concentrate on strip-searching bus and subway passengers.... :barf:

Regards,
 
Zundfolge hit the nail on the head.

That said - I like TSA better than whatever those third world rejects who did the searches pre-9/11 were called. I flew 4-6 times a week then and would often run into one of them who couldn't speak a word of English. All the TSA employees I've run into since 9/11 have been polite, spoke English and reasonably professional in their approach to their job.
 
Its all about low level government thugs putting you serfs in your place where you belong ... its part of an overall campaign to make compliant sheep out of the people so when the SERIOUS violations of human rights occur well all quietly stand in line and not give the soldiers loading us on the cattle cars any trouble.
That's exactly right. That's why I find it so scary that schools having metal detectors and bag searches now. Children should not accept that type of behavior among our servants (the police, etc). Funny, I doubt that there are any private schools with metal detectors.

By the way, I have a solution to this whole TSA problem: We should all start showing up for flights at a reasonable time, like, one hour before the flight, or maybe even less. The earlier you show up the more time they have to harass. If everyone showed up one hour before the flight, they would have to just get us all onto the flight, or run all the flights late.

They want people to show up as early as possible, so I show up at what is a convenient time for me.
 
It's now to the point that it is faster to drive in some cases on short flights. I agree with SMMAssociates. Just harden the flight deck, then give the flight crew a good .357 each. (I vote Ruger. :p ) You have now solved 99% of the problem. All you have to worry about now is explosives and axes. What do we call the TSA people? Calling them "pigs" is too good cause the police perform a wanted service and the vast majority of them arn't prics. (Only met one or two bad cops in my life, everyone else has been good.)
 
TSA searches are NOT about making travel safer, they are NOT about keeping terrorists off our planes and they are NOT about preventing someone from getting on board with weapons.


Its all about low level government thugs putting you serfs in your place where you belong ... its part of an overall campaign to make compliant sheep out of the people so when the SERIOUS violations of human rights occur well all quietly stand in line and not give the soldiers loading us on the cattle cars any trouble.



[BLOCKQUOTE]
...I would like to say something to [those of you] who believe the greatest threat to America comes not from terrorists from ... beyond our borders, but from our own government....

...I believe you have every right, indeed you have the responsibility, to question our government when you disagree with its policies. And I will do everything in my power to protect your right to do so.

But I also know there have been lawbreakers among those who espouse your philosophy....

...But the Weathermen of the radical left who resorted to violence in the 1960s were wrong. Today, the gang members who use life on the mean streets of America, as terrible as it is, to justify taking the law into their own hands and taking innocent life are wrong. The people who came to the United States to bomb the World Trade Center were wrong....

...How dare you suggest that we in the freest nation on Earth live in tyranny....

...[T]here is nothing patriotic about hating your country, or pretending that you can love your country but despise your government....

[BLOCKQUOTE]President Clinton. May 5, 1995.[/BLOCKQUOTE]


...But do not condemn people who work for the government. That's the kind of mentality that produced Oklahoma City....

...And I think the most important thing we can do to make your father safer is to have everybody in this room, whatever their political party or their view, stand up and say, it is wrong to condemn people who are out there doing there job and wrong to threaten them. And when you hear somebody doing it, you ought to stand up and double up your fist and stick it in the sky and shout them down. That is wrong. It is wrong....


[BLOCKQUOTE]President Clinton. June 1, 1995.[/BLOCKQUOTE]


[W]e can't love our country and hate our government.

[BLOCKQUOTE]President Clinton. December 30, 1995.[/BLOCKQUOTE]

[/BLOCKQUOTE]

Of course, now that their guy is out-of-office, "dissent" is patriotic.

So remember: it was wrong to refer to the BATF as "jack-booted thugs" (terrorism causing hate speech) but OK to say that "Bush = Hitler" (patriotic free speech).

I'm not sure what the official Party line is about the TSA, though. If you can't figure it out, report to your nearest re-education center, and they'll take care of you.
 
They're actually part of the problem!

One of my "Issues" is that the security for TSA and DHS is so completely porous that we're now worse off from a security viewpoint - they keep contracting security firms on the low end because many more professional and qualified teams will not work for them as they do not pay very well, and the work is emotionally frustrating to both the people getting hassled, and the security folk that have to do it.

So they wind up in a personnel shortage, contracting some pretty low grade security firms who do not effectively screen their own personnel on hire, leading to further security risks.. not measure taken would remain any kind of secret for long, and if they HAD a lead, the BG's would be aware of it and counter the situation long before the top-heavy, ponderous bearaucratic weight of TSA/DHS would ever even consider acting on that information.

Think of our security like a two stroke engine - what happens if you jet too high and flood too MUCH fuel into the cylinder ? why, it bogs down and stalls out, doesn't it ?

At this point, the biggest problem with our security - is our security.
innit ironic?

-K
 
I was traveling with a friend and she got singled out for additional screening. TSA emptied her bags, used the chemical swabs on everything, wanded her and searched her.
The took a tiny pair of sewing scissors away from her because they were pointed.
After we got to the gate and sat down, she reaches into her back pocket and whips out this 4-5" metal nail file that is very pointed and resembles a short sword. :eek: She goes on filing her nails in a very nonchalant fashion.
I look at her and ask why TSA let her keep that? Her eyes bugged out and she shoved it into her purse. "They didn't find it and I forgot it was there". :rolleyes:
 
You complain when stuff gets through, and you complain when stuff isnt allowed through, you complain that the government wont protect you, and complain when they try. Bottom line, you are gonna complain no matter what.

It is easy to pick on the government, easier than signing on and working for a solution
 
No, I'll stop complaining when the government backs out of airline security altogether and lets the airplanes be held liable for terrorist attacks that occur on their watch.

Youll see an effective solution put in place immediately.

If El Al can protect their airplanes, it shouldnt be impossible for us either.
 
Its all about low level government thugs putting you serfs in your place where you belong ... its part of an overall campaign to make compliant sheep out of the people so when the SERIOUS violations of human rights occur well all quietly stand in line and not give the soldiers loading us on the cattle cars any trouble.
Wow. I had no idea the fellas in charge could mastermind a brilliant conspiracy such as this. I guess I've gotta stop being so noisy, troublesome and demanding when I'm standing in line for the TSA checks ... After all, I have no right to complain if I feel I'm being mistreated, since the media and the entire legal profession is supporting the government coverup of the evil TSA's real purpose. Must practice compliance for the day when my fellow military personnel load me into the cattle car to send me off to the "work camp."
 
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