Well crap. We goofed. (nothing too serrious)

[swampcrawler]

Beetledog, I understand what you're saying man. Didn't mean to be an a$$. I was still a wee bit heated over the recent events.

Lemaymiami, I live in southeastern louisiana. Like 2 miles from southeastern Louisiana University.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by DeepSouth: I personally cannot watch some get harmed by a criminal and do nothing, which is called being a good witness by some.

Yes you can. It's just that you do not like the idea.

Calling for help is doing something.

Sometimes you have to do what's right and deal with the consequences later, what ever they may be.

If you do in fact happen to "do what's right" in most circumstances, any adverse consequences, "whatever they might be", will likely be confined to physical harm to yourself, inflicted perhaps by the criminal, or possibly by an armed citizen or arriving first responder.

There is one BIG exception: if you intervene in what turns out to be a domestic violence situation, it is extremely likely that both or all participants will end up testifying against you, leaving you without a leg to stand on.

And, of course, unless you know the apparent victim, you have little or no way of knowing just what is "right" in the first place.

That you did what seemed to be the right thing at the time will not help you at all if you turned out to be wrong. And that happens all the time.

All downside and no upside.

 

[DeepSouth]

I agree it would be an absolute must to know what's going on, but many times that is extremely obvious, also I'm not suggesting that you just run up into the middle of any and every conflict you see. Like I said I'm big on MYOB. Your right there are many times you don't know what's going on and you need to stayout of it.

I'll just ask this, if I'm walking down the street and see your daughter or wife getting the crap beat out of them do you want me to stop the person doing it OR Do you want me to take your adviceand "call for help?" If its her husband and they both testify against me, then to bad for me, but I'd rather have my kids thinking I got screwed over for helping someone than having to know I watched someone get take beating and did nothing but make a phone call.

There are circumstances where you are the help, that's basically all I'm saying.
I believe there are some on this board that would never be the help, they would be a good witness to a murder or anything else.

 

[Hanzo581]

I'll also add I can't imagine three guys knocking on a door looking suspicious to me

You have to go with your gut on this one. If you get a feeling someone or a group is up to no good you should follow up. Three young guys knocking on your door? What could they want? Do they clipboards in their hands trying to sell you something? How about dragging a lawnmower behind their bike looking to cut your grass for $20...I mean sometimes there are legit reasons to go door to door.

But just three young guys you've never seen in the neighborhood before? Call me suspicious but I'd certainly like to know what they were up to.

 

[Godsgunman]

I think you did the right thing since your Uncle told you that others had been notified and had supposedly called the police. If anything your Uncle should have called the police also since he actually saw them and you didn't. Now if it was your specific street and neighbor, maybe a quick drive by wouldn't be a bad idea while talking to the police to give a description. My wife and kids stay home so you can bet your bottom dollar I'm going to at least observe any suspicious people anywhere near my house. I've even doublebacked once when I was leaving for work because a suspicious car I had never seen was slowly rolling down our street. Wrote down the plate and model even but nothing came of it. When family is involved its a different ballgame.

 

[paramedic70002]

Assuming the lady "didn't want to get involved" by calling 911. I've experienced this before when I told a coworker to call 911 because there was a car fire in our parking lot.

People baffle me.

 

[swampcrawler]

As to the "cant imagine 3 guys knocking in a door being suspicious" comment.
Like I said (I'm intentionally leaving race out of this but draw your own conclusions if it's your thing) all middle/upper middle class neighborhood. Only 4 families with kids and they are all too young to be these guys. So they font belong to any of us.

They walked up, meaning they came from near by, and all that's near by is low income/high crime neighborhoods.

And to top it all off these were the over sized tee shirt/sideways hat/ pants hanging down below the knees crowd.

We found it significantly suspicious.

 

[45_auto]

Give George Zimmerman a call and see what he thinks you should have done. Sounds like a similar situation as he found himself in (unknown suspiciously dressed teenagers in the neighborhood), could have easily had a similar (or much worse) outcome for you.

The thing I'm wondering is, should I have turned around and investigated?

I told him I'd turn around and come check it out, but he told me no need, he had called another armed and trained neighbor and informed him of the sittuation, and told his wife to call the police.

Based on your posts, I'm guessing that you don't have very much practice or training in "investigating" a potential aggravated burglary (LA 14:60 - http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/louisiana/la-laws/louisiana_revised_statutes_14-60). Your uncle's already called another "armed and trained" neighbor, and the cops are supposedly being called.

Optimal thing you could have done in the particular situation you described would have been call the cops yourself to make sure they were contacted then not worry about it any further.

 

[lemaymiami]

Swamp.... now that I know where you're located, I understand your police problem as well. I'm sure that there are lots of straight up cops in your state, but I do know that the few "former NOPD" types that have made it over to south Florida haven't exactly been much to be proud of (understatement)... Wish it weren't so. Bad enough to have lots of "hungries" living near you but little or no police response is pretty tough on ordinary folks.

 

[Double_J]

It does suck to hear of a break-in in your own neighborhood. I used to live in Metairie a few years ago and learned not to count on the local cops to do anything other than guard the krispy kreme shop. I had an auto break in and did not call them as they would have done nothing other than take a report and trash it as soon as they got to the station.

My friend had his wallet get stolen while at work. The funny thing is he knew who stole it, had is name, address, phone number and other contact information. He also had the guy on video at three different places buying things with the debit card. The NOPD had EVERYTHING they needed to make an arrest and never did follow up as it would have been too much work. (I have very little use for such an excuse for a Law Enforcement Officer)

 

[RussellC]

Yes you can. It's just that you do not like the idea.

Calling for help is doing something.

If you do in fact happen to "do what's right" in most circumstances, any adverse consequences, "whatever they might be", will likely be confined to physical harm to yourself, inflicted perhaps by the criminal, or possibly by an armed citizen or arriving first responder.

There is one BIG exception: if you intervene in what turns out to be a domestic violence situation, it is extremely likely that both or all participants will end up testifying against you, leaving you without a leg to stand on.

And, of course, unless you know the apparent victim, you have little or no way of knowing just what is "right" in the first place.

That you did what seemed to be the right thing at the time will not help you at all if you turned out to be wrong. And that happens all the time.

All downside and no upside.

As a criminal defense attorney, WHAT HE SAID! Especially about the domestic situation.

Russellc

 

[earlthegoat2]

Unfortunately, these days, being a good citizen will wind you up in prison. The world has reinforced the "look out for yourself" mentality and as good as the world would be if we could self police ourselves, the gubmint will not let us without dire consequences.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by earthgoat2: Unfortunately, these days, being a good citizen will wind you up in prison. The world has reinforced the "look out for yourself" mentality and as good as the world would be if we could self police ourselves, the gubmint will not let us without dire consequences

I'm not sure where some people get the impression that once upon a time it was acceptable for citizens to wrongfully employ force against others based on erroneous assumptions and that all would be forgiven, but that is a complete misconception.

Nothing has changed in that regard.

 

[two gun charlie]

do it if you are properly trained

I would have gone there , parked my truck out of site , casually walked to a nice position from where I was not attracting attention and just observed as much as possible , taken down their vehicle registration , sneak a few shots of them using my cellphone camera if it was possible. Information that the police can use later.

Often a keen eye and sharp observation is all that is needed

however in cases where someone is being harmed , there is no way I am just going to stand idly by , I don't care what men or the law says in that regard , I have to explain it to God one day , if it means I have to explain it to Him sooner because of what happens then so be it.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posed by two gun charlie: however in cases where someone is being harmed , there is no way I am just going to stand idly by , ...

Ah, the old "I'll be a hero" approach.

Just how do you think you will be able to divine what is actually happening and why, so that you will not make a terrible mistake?

Would you actually act on the basis of appearances?

 

[ChaoSS]

Apparently some people don't see a middle ground between going in guns blazing and standing back and doing nothing.

How about, drive up, roll down the window, and ask "can I help you gentlemen out with anything?"

Let's the individuals know that they are being watched, isn't confrontational, isn't going to inspire them to engage in a gun battle if they are armed, and may convince them to move onto somewhere else.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by ChaoSS: How about, drive up, roll down the window, and ask "can I help you gentlemen out with anything?"

Let's the individuals know that they are being watched, isn't confrontational, isn't going to inspire them to engage in a gun battle if they are armed, and may convince them to move onto somewhere else.

Well, that sounds reasonable, but how someone else might react might not be what you would expect.

Mind-altering substances, something contributing to an air of desperation, a strong tendency toward violence, a compelling need to have no witnesses, a decision on their part to kill the first person they see (happened here not too long ago), or any combination could result in a most unpleasant surprise.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Better to call 911 and have descriptions of them, any vehicle, on file; if the suspects don't get caught then, they may develop a history. Goods they get caught with may be traced back to a previous reported theft, and call history may help.

 

[two gun charlie]

Ah, the old "I'll be a hero" approach.

Just how do you think you will be able to divine what is actually happening and why, so that you will not make a terrible mistake?

Would you actually act on the basis of appearances?

Well Klean I never said anything about just storming in guns a blazing
obviously I will check it out first , call the cops if I have the option but I will definitely not let an innocent person's death rest on my conscious.
I think we can argue this point more ways than one , the fact remains
I will always assist my fellow man as best I can , walking away is not an option to me. and remember there is a hero in all of us, and that includes you , one day you will get into a situation and you will realize just what I am trying to say

 

[besafe2]

Op where I'm at that's a 911 call. Get the best description you can for the responding officers.

I know if I were still in leo that's suspicious to me & I would be out with them.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by two gun charlie: obviously I will check it out first ,

The question was, how?

And how do you remain safe while trying to do so?

I will always assist my fellow man as best I can , walking away is not an option to me.

That takes us back to the first question: how do you know that your "fellow man" should be assisted? Realize that unless your "fellow man" would be legally entitled to a claim of self defense himself, any use of force on your part would constitute a criminal act.

And don't forget the very real possibility that your "fellow man" just might end up swearing in court that you were the attacker.

Keep in mind the possibilities: (1) your "fellow man" may in fact be a criminal suspect being apprehended; (2) your "fellow man" might have started a violent altercation; (3) your "fellow man" might have been engaged in mutual combat; (4) you may be witnessing domestic violence; (5) for ethnic or cultural reasons, your intervention may be very unwelcome; (6) there may be accomplices--a "tail gunner" if you will; or (7) an armed citizen or arriving first responder may identify you as a violent criminal actor and resort to deadly force.

But keep in mind that the discussion here has to do with a report of some men at someone's front door. One could report it, or not. As the case at hand turned out, that would have ben a good thing.

But there is little that a citizen could contribute by approaching the scene and putting himself at risk of injury or at risk of being reported as a suspect.

 

[lemaymiami]

Everyone's best defense for their un-occupied home or business is a nosy neighbor willing to pick up a phone and call it in. Most calls will come to nothing, but when the deal goes down and bad actors are up to no good your telephone is their worst enemy. Just like a forward observer for the artillery, calling in the heat and actually being able to tell them where the target is and exactly what they seem to be doing is a young (or old) cop's dream come true. Most have no idea just how frustrating it is for most cops to take reports from folks who've been vicitimized day after day while rarely ever getting to actually catch a bad guy doing his thing...

I know that most aren't willing to get involved in the system but that's the kind of quiet courage that makes for good neighborhoods and better cities, time after time.

I'll get down off of my soapbox now....

 

[SSN Vet]

Do you really want to share George Zimmerman's destiny?

You're uncle "profiled" the hoodies... and you want to play neigborhood watch captain and turn your truck around to investigate and follow them?

You're uncle was talking to you on the phone, when he should have been talking to the police himself.

Telling his wife to make a heresay call obviously didn't help the situation.

The most you could have (and you'll have to assess whether you should have) legitimately done was to do a drive by and call it in if it looked hokey

 

[DeepSouth]

Something else to remember is for some of us calling the police is doing basically nothing. Out in rural areas responds time is a long time. Around here if you call the police for a burglary the response time will most likely be over 3 hours. I know of once my grand father called 911 around 9 one night the next mourning (12+ hrs later) they showed up to inquire.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by DeepSouth: Something else to remember is for some of us calling the police is doing basically nothing. Out in rural areas responds time is a long time. Around here if you call the police for a burglary the response time will most likely be over 3 hours. I know of once my grand father called 911 around 9 one night the next mourning (12+ hrs later) they showed up to inquire.

In a city near me, the police not infrequently put crime reports on the list for the next shift, unless there are reports of gunfire or injury.

That does not make it prudent to personally intervene in the case of a report of persons at someone's door. It's risky, and there isn't really much you can do about it.

Video, if you can get it in complete safety without being detected, might prove helpful. Not for me.