what advantage does an 8-shot .45 have over a 16shot 9mm??

[SwampWolf]

I think the op's question is a legitimate one; a question that should provoke some relevant concerns about what constitutes adequate magazine/cylinder capacity, sufficient bullet size and appropriate platform size and configuration. The best example that addresses this dilemma that I can think of has to do with two SIG pistols I own, a Model 220 Carry (.45 ACP with an eight round capacity) and a Model 226 E2 (9mm with a sixteen round capacity). I like having more rounds on board but 9mm bullets are smaller than .45s are and a double stack magazine makes the 226 (despite its fine ergos) a more ponderous carry proposition. The 220, on the other hand, with its single stack magazine makes for a slimmer profile that fits my hand even better than the 226 does. The question is, of course, will the bigger bullet (which many, if not most, agree offers better "stopping" power than smaller bullets do, everything else being equal) offset the advantage of higher capacity if a ninth round is ever needed in an atypical gunfight?

Other considerations include the higher cost of .45 ammunition as compared to the 9mm (which conceivably could translate into less practice/training shots) and the greater recoil of the .45 as compared to the 9mm (which could make for more ammunition expenditure and practice time necessary to control repeat shots, etc.). The problem is that there is never going to be a consensus, even among thoughtful and experienced people, as to which side of the argument is better-and that's probably a good thing.

All of which leads me to agree with the posters who found TMann's parting comment most germane to the question at hand:

Since none of those presuppositions is easy to PROVE, we are left without one clear choice of best handgun. Choose what works best for you.

 

[Darebear]

45v9...YES! Lol.
I used to buy into the online Rambo's until gas prices doubled since I brought my 5.4 V8 truck. Lol... So now the HK45c sits in the safe while the P2000 comes out to play... 12-14$/box of 9mm target ammo vs 24-28$/box of .45 acp target ammo.

1). Shot placement. Mark Todd stopped the Fort Hood Massacre with a few rounds discharged from a Beretta M9.

2). Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice and Practice... with a box of .45 target ammo costing double of what .45 costs you can see why I practice with my 9mm more.

3). The Marines (best fighting force in the world... I was Air force and I still give Kudo's to Marines) use beretta M9s... Now would they love to use .45's... sure... maybe but they get the job done and done pretty damn well with 15+1 rounds of 9mm.

This excerpt is from a Article in Tactical weapons March 2011 issue celeberating the M9 for it's 25 year service mark.
“Let me recount one last quick story about the period when the M9 was coming in and M1911 was going out. During the Great Flood of 1993 here in St. Louis, Army MP Reserves and USAF Security Police form Scott AFB were deployed to supplement the St. Louis City Police. Initially, the MP’s had their .45 autos but were issued no ammunition until the City Police explained they were manning dangerous road-blocks and outposts and needed loaded weapons! With great reluctance, the Army Reserves issued them FIVE rounds of ammo. The Air Force Security Police had their M9s with a round chambered and ready for double action engagement, a full magazine of 15 rounds, and 2 spare magazines with 15 rounds. Who was better prepared to deal with looters?”

 

[Darebear]

Also to those that think I'm putting down the .45 then I apologize... I'm not. I like the .45 round. I'm just trying to say whether it's 8 rounds of .45 or 16 rounds of 9mm it kinda doesn't matter... what matters is what works for you. What get's the job done for you when it TRULY matters...

In the words of Chris Costa "If you can't run your sh** under stress then you better not be running a gun that's for damn sure"

By the way, not criticzing, I'd drop the idea that you might have to lay down suppresive fire (if you're a civi). That is a lawsuit and jailtime waiting to happen brother...

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Sure, 16 rounds is more than 8 and a good 9mm JHP is plenty lethal.

OTOH, 45ACP carries more momentum and a good JHP will give a larger expanded diameter for superior stopping power.

Plenty of 45ACP platforms offer more than 8 round capacity. The 1911 trades greater capacity for a slimmer single stack and gains carryability and concealability.

Finally, I often carry 7 rounds of 9mm and feel fine about it. Come to think about it, I haven't CC'd a handgun with more than a 10 round magazine in a while.

 

[Hunt480]

Since I have no use for a 9mm...Probably because it could take all 16 9mm's to to do the stop work of 1 45 ACP. If not the 45 get the 40. The 9 can't shoot the heavy stoppers... I'm not really a professional instigator it just seems that way. Let it fly...

 

[Darebear]

Since I have no use for a 9mm...Probably because it could take all 16 9mm's to to do the stop work of 1 45 ACP. If not the 45 get the 40. The 9 can't shoot the heavy stoppers... I'm not really a professional instigator it just seems that way. Let it fly...

I'm a little dense... Is this a joke? Please tell me this is a joke so I can start laughing.

 

[tazbigdog]

No need to fire 16 rounds when it can be done with 8!

 

[mljdeckard]

It's because this is a handgun, not a defensive rifle. It is an emergency tool, not something you deliberately carry into a fight. We do not live in MelGibsonLand where you will often (or ever) need to fire fifteen straight shots without reloading. We carry a spare magazine to be able to clear a malfunction, not really to have more rounds. If you can't change magazines fast enough to continue fighting, you need to practice more.

A 1911 (or other single-stack auto) you can hold and shoot well and conceal effectively and comfortably is better than something that holds more bullets. The first eight are by far the most important. If you have an armed encounter that eight rounds won't solve, it is highly unlikely that fifteen will save you either. That is when you need a rifle.

You need to reconsider your concept of 'real world'. Most armed encounters end with no shots fired at all, and most of the rest are two or three shots.

 

[LeonCarr]

Carry a 14 or 15 shot .45 to get the best of both worlds and not worry .

 

[Hunt480]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunt480
Since I have no use for a 9mm...Probably because it could take all 16 9mm's to to do the stop work of 1 45 ACP. If not the 45 get the 40. The 9 can't shoot the heavy stoppers... I'm not really a professional instigator it just seems that way. Let it fly...

I'm a little dense... Is this a joke? Please tell me this is a joke so I can start laughing.

You can laugh now, but I really don't have any luv for the 9mm..Got to stir a good debate...Time for church, Happy Easter Sunday everyone...

 

[blarby]

This.

 

[mljdeckard]

Do you really think that the advantage of .45 over 9mm is 14-1?

 

[2wheels]

If 8 ain't enough... Is 16 enough? 20? How 'bout a Glock with a 33 round mag?

I only own one handgun that has a double digit capacity, I don't carry it.

 

[hardluk1]

Watched a real trama show a while back and some kid was shot 7 times with the 45acp. Nothing important was hit. Kid went home 4 days later.

Shoot what you feel good and just learn to hit your target guickly and practice double taps.

I shoot one of 2 different 9mm's with a capacity of 8 rounds or less. Carried a 38 revolver for around 20 years.

The 45acp is pale compaired to a 357 sig, or 10mm or 357mag or , or , or,

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

If you are speaking from a LEO duty perspective I see your point but if you are talking about a self defense situation you're just being paranoid.

So once again, do you load all your defensive firearms with just three rounds since you already know you'll never need more? There are plenty of times where more than three rounds were required. One was a 70 year old ex marine who fired 5 rounds, 3 in the first attacker and 2 into the second and the second was able to run 300 yards away before finally dying. By the way hes still with us today and DIDN'T DIE when he fired that fourth round.

 

[PPS43]

In some jurisdictions there are 10 round magazine capacity limits. Pre-ban magazines do not exist for many newer guns.

The comparison then is 8 rounds of .45 ACP, or 10 rounds of 9 mm in a double-stack magazine (with the rest of the space in the thick handle wasted).

 

[Shopping A Round]

In some jurisdictions there are 10 round magazine capacity limits. Pre-ban magazines do not exist for many newer guns.

The comparison then is 8 rounds of .45 ACP, or 10 rounds of 9 mm in a double-stack magazine (with the rest of the space in the thick handle wasted).

This is a very relevant point.

Either a small 9mm that holds fewer than 10 naturally or a normal sized gun in .45 with 6 to 8 rounds. Very frustrating when I want a USP in 9mm but would feel silly with its neutered capacity.

 

[daorhgih]

Sticking with the original query, and assuming the hit is ...

... in the same place on the body (which is why we use man-shaped targets, is it not?) ONE shot in a vital area has more OOoomph-factor per .45 than 9mm round does. (rant on all weenie-caliber lovers, rant on.) mljdeckard, 7794 posts: hey!, maybe he really DOES know everything about everything; but don't use "we" when you obviously mean "I". I carry, concealed, because "deliberately carrying into a fight" might be just around the aisle in HandyShak. "The first EIGHT"!! How about the first ONE! And we need LOTS of citations for your other posits, also. It's different in Chi-town (real-wordly) than in Utah Territory (calm-zone?), IMHO. Dao.

 

[DammitBoy]

As a teenager living in Washington DC, my buddy and I were attacked by 12 gang members and nearly beaten to death, except for a police car that just happened to pass by and stopped the attack.

I carry a Para-Ordnance P14 in .45 with a spare magazine.

 

[PabloJ]

Given availability of 12+ shot .45Autos out there is only advantage poor weak 9x19 has which is availability of cheaper pinkling ammo. When one realizes that .45ACP user does not need JHPs for personal defense ammo one could easily argue that the bigger gun is "cheaper to carry". Due to availability of +p ammo the .45ACP is also superior to .40S&W and longer version called 10mm.

 

[gbelleh]

I've made it standard practice to back-pocket carry a 7-shot 9mm as a back-up gun. This way, I don't have to worry about fumbling with a magazine change under stress, just pull gun #2. Also, I worry less about the capacity of my primary gun when I know I have 7 more 9mms easily and immediately accessible.

I carry anything from a 7-shot 9mm, to 8-shot .45, to 14-shot .40, to 16-shot 9mm as a primary, and I'm comfortable with them all (especially knowing 7 more 9mms are there and ready to go).

 

[Powderman]

Folks, this is a non-starter.

The most effective caliber is the one that YOU are comfortable with, and that YOU can effectively hit the target with.

Period.

The thing to do is to skew the numbers in your favor by choosing the most effective ammunition available. Federal Hydra-Shok, Remington Golden Saber and Speer Gold Dot are all proven high performance ammunition. Find which one feeds and chambers best in your chosen handgun and use it. For practice, either buy or load ammunition which closely duplicates the ballistics of your defensive carry round.

The most important aspect is NOT what caliber you have. It is practice, practice, practice!

 

[stevek]

and manufacturers are not exactly lining up new models of single action cocked and locked pistols for release.

That's true...they are all lining up to put out their version of a 1911

 

[DAP90]

I had a 16-shot CZ75 9mm for awhile. It was a great gun but rather large, heavy and difficult to conceal. I'd have to give the edge to the thinner 1911 platform for concealability.

Since your going to spend more time just carrying it around than shooting it, that would be an advantage with a real world application.

As others have said though, if you like the CZ75 better that makes it the superior gun for you. I can't remember having a single problem with the CZ relating to performance; and I often wish I still had it.

 

[PabloJ]

Strum & Ruger just released nice looking stainless version. Regrettably magazine holds fewer then 10 cartridges. Even Canadians with their tiny population made double action version with large cap magazine. I realize their food might be healthier with fewer preservatives but their handguns should be better then ours? As an American I'm truly embarrassed.