What do you expect to do with a sword

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mcb

mcb

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Honest question, what are you going to use your swords for other than wall hangers?

And I ask this not as a compete neophyte but someone that was on a collegiate varsity fencing team for four years (Mostly Sabre with some Epee in the off season since there was more Epee matches in the off season.) and continued to study the art a few years after leaving school.
 
mcb said:
what are you going to use your swords for other than wall hangers
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I too fenced saber in college, but later I studied European sword combat under Maestro Eddie Floyd so I could have both the practical as well as the sport.

I would think that the answer to your question, especially in this forum, is the range of defensive tools is pretty broad so being prepared to use a good tool, like a sword, is reasonable.

Would you ignore a historic saber or rapier as a weapon in your home in favor of a kitchen knife or a baseball bat?
 
hso said:
I too fenced saber in college, but later I studied European sword combat under Maestro Eddie Floyd so I could have both the practical as well as the sport.

I would think that the answer to your question, especially in this forum, is the range of defensive tools is pretty broad so being prepared to use a good tool, like a sword, is reasonable.

Would you ignore a historic saber or rapier as a weapon in your home in favor of a kitchen knife or a baseball bat?
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No I would rather have my sabre (I do own one Civil War 1860 pattern replica sabre in addition to several fencing sabres) than the knife or bat but I can't see myself carrying my sabre around the home let alone anywhere else. You're far more likely to find me carrying an axe (and/or a handgun) than a sword. The axe has far more utilitarian and can be pressed into defensive melee duties in a pinch. The sword is really lousing at chopping up that tree that fell across the trail.

The sword is obviously an effective weapon but is it a practical weapon given the other weapons available and the constraints our modern life styles put on us?
 
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I have a junk novelty cavalry Sabre that I have played with a bit and determined it to be a worthy defensive weapon design but my example is of poor build. When I looked into getting a real deal usable blade I was shocked at prices, and that was pre-pandemic. Inside the home it would make for a very serious defensive tool. You never have to stop and reload your sword, and it generally doesn’t jam. For small or constrained homes it makes for a fine thrusting tool that I would put on par with a pistol in close quarters. Biggest benefit of sword over pistol is that most swords will cut right through soft body armor that an intruder may be wearing where a pistol won’t.
 
mcb said:
Honest question, what are you going to use your swords for other than wall hangers?

And I ask this not as a compete neophyte but someone that was on a collegiate varsity fencing team for four years (Mostly Sabre with some Epee in the off season since there was more Epee matches in the off season.) and continued to study the art a few years after leaving school.
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Depends.

If you think nuclear war with China is a real possibility, then having and being proficient with a sword would be very handy if/when the ammo runs out.

If you think our global "civilization" has a long-term future, then not much, I suppose.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Depends.

If you think nuclear war with China is a real possibility, then having and being proficient with a sword would be very handy if/when the ammo runs out.

If you think our global "civilization" has a long-term future, then not much, I suppose.
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If we are reduced to a post apocalyptical world and I somehow survive into it I will be carrying a spear when the ammo runs out. :)
 
mcb said:
but is it a practical weapon given the other weapons available
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mcb said:
the trail
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Since you've now defined the setting you wouldn't be expected to have a saber ( or rapier or broad sword or ...), but an axe is more likely so discussing swords in that setting is something of a red herring. You've changed the discussion to fit your conclusion.

Your original question was
mcb said:
Honest question, what are you going to use your swords for other than wall hangers?
Click to expand...

The response is, a wall hanger won't do much good as a usable blade, but a usable blade can be an effective defensive weapon if that's what you have at hand and you know how to use it (don't get it stuck in the ceiling or hallway wall). Tossing the axe and the woods in changes the discussion.

I'll give you two personally known examples where swords were used in self defense and then something more gruesome. I knew two people that separately in place and time used swords, real ones, to defend themselves successfully. They were both SCA. One was an interesting woman (aren't all SCA female members "interesting") that was attacked in Nashville by 3 "youts" as she was getting to her car in a parking garage. One would-be robber/rapist grabbed her by the shoulder and she spun on him. What he didn't know was that she had her hand wrapped around a lang seax. As she snapped her head around she saw it wasn't anyone she'd expect to see and she simultaneously heard "Get her!". She completed the pivot slashing across the middle of the man that had his hand on her shoulder. He folded ... screaming. The "Get her!" guy was close on his flailing companion and she brought the lang seax sweeping up and hit him in the head. The blow knocked him out and it also took his ear off. The third yout ran. The police were summoned. They in turn summoned the EMTs. They were poor sports and demanded the ear go with the EMTs. Both assailants survived and so did she. The second is a thirty-something man that caught a fellow that broke into his apartment. The intruder pulled a knife. The SCA President (yeah, he was also my insurance agent) simply reached out to the first thing at hand which happened to be a Civil War "gladius". He snap smacked the knife out of the intruder's hand breaking several bones in the hand. He then snapped the blade to the side of the intruder's head (the flat of the blade) stunning him. He backed him against the wall putting the tip in the hollow of the intruders throat, dialed the sheriff, and asked them to hurry before the guy tried anything else. I knew both of these SCA members and wasn't surprised in the least that they'd used what they had at hand or that it had been a sword. It could have just as easily been a mace or kitchen knife, but they both had swords handy. Now for the more gruesome - Rwanda. A machete isn't a saber, but it is used in the same manner for slashing and hacking. Some also have pointed tips and can be used for thrusting, but the balance is to slash and hack. Thousands upon thousands people were murdered with machetes in a 100 day slaughter.

I too would rather have a short spear inside or out since I have some training with them as well, but I wouldn't pass a sword to get to a spear (nor would I pass a gun to get to a sword or a spear) if I was being attacked since I have more training with the sword. I'll use what is at hand and have trained to be better than the average movie/tv watcher with them (I'm worst with an axe or 'hawk).
 
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hso said:
Since you've now defined the setting you wouldn't be expected to have a saber ( or rapier or broad sword or ...), but an axe is more likely so discussing swords in that setting is something of a red herring. You've changed the discussion to fit your conclusion.

Your original question was


The response is, a wall hanger won't do much good as a usable blade, but a usable blade can be an effective defensive weapon if that's what you have at hand and you know how to use it (don't get it stuck in the ceiling or hallway wall). Tossing the axe and the woods in changes the discussion.

I'll give you two personally known examples where swords were used in self defense and then something more gruesome. I knew two people in the SCA that separately in place and time used swords, real ones, to defend themselves successfully. One was an interesting woman (aren't all SCA female members "interesting") that was attacked in Nashville by 3 "youts" as she was getting to her car in a parking garage. One would be robber/rapist grabbed her by the shoulder and she spun on him. What he didn't know was that she had her hand wrapped around a lang seax. As she snapped her head around she saw it wasn't anyone she'd expect to see and she simultaneously herd "Get her!". She completed the pivot slashing across the middle of the man that had his hand on her shoulder. He folded ... screaming. The "Get her!" guy was close on Mr. Gutless and she brought the lang seax sweeping up and hit him in the head. The blow knocked him out and it also took his ear off. The third yout ran. The police were summoned. They summoned the EMTs. Both assailants survived. They were poor sports and demanded the ear go with the EMTs. The second is a thirty-something man that caught a fellow that broke into his apartment. The intruder pulled a knife. The SCA President (yeah, he was also my insurance agent) simply reached out to the first thing at hand which happened to be a Civil War "gladius". He snap smacked the knife out of the intruder's hand breaking several bones in the hand. He then snapped the blade to the side of the intruder's head (the flat of the blade) stunning him. He backed him against the wall putting the tip in the hollow of the intruders throat, dialed the sheriff, and asked them to hurry before the guy tried anything else. I knew both of these SCA members and wasn't surprised in the least that they'd used what they had at hand and that it had been a sword. It could have just as easily been a mace or kitchen knife, but they both had swords handy. Now for the more gruesome - Rwanda
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Both interesting and good examples of a sword being used but I am not sure that makes an argument for swords in general. Especially when a handgun would have been equally effective if not more so (assuming equal training with the handgun). In general a handgun is a more capable self defense weapon and far easier to carry on person. I am far from read-up on Rwanda but had the Tutsi been armed and organized the Hutu extremist's machetes would have been far less effective and they would have had to do more shooting and less hacking in their attempted genocide.

My argument is, that irrespective of the setting, the sword is by modern standards a cumbersome weapon to carry with you compared to most modern alternatives. I am struggling to find a situation in my own life where I would have my sword handy and not another more effective weapon. ie walking around my home with a handgun on my belt is far easier and less damaging to the woodwork and furniture than my sabre in its scabbard on my belt. Away form home the sword is a far more conspicuous weapon than my concealed handgun. The sword was a very effective weapon and can in some situation, as you illustrate, still be one but but in a modern lifestyle I am struggle to find the practicality. I would pass several more effective weapons in most paths to retrieve my own sword.
 
mcb said:
the sword is by modern standards a cumbersome weapon to carry with you compared to most modern alternatives.
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No question that a gun is an improvement over a sword (or ...) as history has shown, but that's not the point. You asked why a sword for anything other than a wallhanger, it was answered with examples within the context that swords have been used in self defense. At no time has anyone suggested (mater of fact I stated clearly that I would not pass a gun to get to a sword/spear/angry cat to defend myself) that a sword is preferable to a gun. Bringing a handgun into the discussion is another shift from the shift about axes. I would contend you and I and anyone here that fenced in HS or College would be better with a sword than the trusty axe, but clearly you carry an axe more than a sword (as most of us would be more likely to have an axe than a sword outside of an SCA event or Ren Faire).

Can you use a sword in self defense? That's established (even for murder).

Would you use a sword when a gun were equally available? Of course not.

Would you forego a sword at hand to go and retrieve a gun? Depends, but the more immediate the threat the more likely you use what's at hand.

I hope that addresses the endpoints of the range of the discussion (unless we want to take a shot at crossbows;)).
 
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mcb said:
If we are reduced to a post apocalyptical world and I somehow survive into it I will be carrying a spear when the ammo runs out. :)
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Add a hefty and handy throwing arm to turn it into an atlatl and I’m game. I want better range than a pokey stick.







Besides... the formula is mass times velocity squared for energy and we all know energy is more important than wound cavity... poke bear and run away...
 
Even against a suppressed firearm the blade is much quieter and less likely to pass through walls.

Then there is Luke 22:36.
 
hso said:
No question that a gun is an improvement over a sword (or ...) as history has shown, but that's not the point. You asked why a sword for anything other than a wallhanger, it was answered with examples within the context that swords have been used in self defense. At no time has anyone suggested (mater of fact I stated clearly that I would not pass a gun to get to a sword/spear/angry cat to defend myself) that a sword is preferable to a gun. Bringing a handgun into the discussion is another shift from the shift about axes. I would contend you and I and anyone here that fenced in HS or College would be better with a sword than the trusty axe, but clearly you carry an axe more than a sword (as most of us would be more likely to have an axe than a sword outside of an SCA event or Ren Faire).

Can you use a sword in self defense? That's established (even for murder).

Would you use a sword when a gun were equally available? Of course not.

Would you forego a sword at hand to go and retrieve a gun? Depends, but the more immediate the threat the more likely you use what's at hand.

I hope that addresses the endpoints of the range of the discussion (unless we want to take a shot at crossbows;)).
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I think we are mostly in agreement but I would ask how often are you in situations where a sword is the nearest weapon at hand? Clearly I need to do more SCA and Ren-fairs because in my current lifestyle their is always a more modern weapon nearer at hand than my sword. That would include, on occasions, a crossbow ( a modern wheelie-crossbow) nearer at hand too.:)
 
While the technology of the firearm is superior, and allows for greatly increased engagement distances, the simple fact is, most defensive actions happen at what could easily be sword, or for that matter knife fighting ranges.

When a criminal is robbing, kidnapping, or raping you... be it in your home, or mall parking garage, they tend to run up and ambush you from extreme close, or even contact distance.
The weapon of choice for both attacker, and defender then boils down to what they are best trained with, and more importantly... what they have on them at the time.

I HAVE a sword. a decent one too. but I'm not that well trained with it, and it's a Katana... a weapon that's much better suited for open areas, not close confined ones, so I wouldn't even try to go for it when I have other shorter blades.
If I were to go to a blade for defense, it would be my CRKT Hisshou. This is a seriously sweet blade. I had a custom handle put on mine. It's "Book of Eli" quick in hand.
However, I'm much better with my handgun, and better still with my SBR...
Then again... my handgun (weapon of convivence) is what I'm most likely to have on me at any given time, being as it's so easily carried in a holster, so there's your answer.

The customized Hisshou.
fJBAxoy.jpg
 
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I have a katana, that is hanging on the wall, and is razor sharp. I’ve done more than a little martial arts training in my younger years, so I’m passingly familiar with it. It takes room to wield properly, but if a handgun or long gun were not at hand, it would do nicely. I also have a wooden practice sword that would inflict less lethal injuries. There’s even an Indian Damascus dagger “on display” along with a throwing tomahawk. All of them would do at social distances inside the home, and would be much quieter than even a silenced firearm. But they wouldn’t be my first choice.
 
mcb said:
how often are you in situations where a sword is the nearest weapon at hand?
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:oops:

Whenever I'm at home there are a variety of small to large knives at hand because I've been collecting antique and modern blades for 40 years. There are also guns & 'hawks, but lots of knives ranging up to swords.
 
hso said:
The police were summoned. . . They were poor sports and demanded the ear go with the EMTs.
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Shameful. No respect for tradition at all.

And I appreciate your citing Rwanda as a reasonable thought experiment. It's more representative of the real world that this unlikely bubble of luxury we've been blessed with.
 
Duh, the sword is quiet, the zombies will hear the gun fire!


Somewhat more serious, I don’t own a sword, at least not one that is more than a wall hanger. BUT I do own a few machetes and I’ll tell you what, with a good machete you could do some real damage real fast. Obviously not a replacement for a gun, but in a gun free world (I know) I wouldn’t feel underarmed with a good Condor machete.
Every man needs at least one good machete IMO, they are just to versatile.
 
DeepSouth said:
Duh, the sword is quiet, the zombies will hear the gun fire!


Somewhat more serious, I don’t own a sword, at least not one that is more than a wall hanger. BUT I do own a few machetes and I’ll tell you what, with a good machete you could do some real damage real fast. Obviously not a replacement for a gun, but in a gun free world (I know) I wouldn’t feel underarmed with a good Condor machete.
Every man needs at least one good machete IMO, they are just to versatile.
Click to expand...


A machete is a significantly more useful tool than a sword despite similarities in gross configuration. It is not as capable of a weapon, but is a very capable jack of all trades. If I was given one tool to survive on it would be a machete (over a knife, axe, saw, etc), you can do almost anything a knife, axe, saw, and sword can in that setting with sufficient capability to survive. A machete and a decent small mill file are a lovely long term combination.
 
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