What do you expect to do with a sword

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by mcb, Jun 1, 2021.

  1. defjon

    defjon Member

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    I own many wall hangers and many " battle ready" examples. This refers to construction and steel type and yes, it's cringe.

    The wall hangers are united cutlery lord of the rings replicas that are neat and look good on the wall. They remind me of my favorite books and the noble lessons contained therein. They serve no purpose but to alight the imagination.

    The battle ready swords are for display and cutting. I've been a massive fan of Viking culture since before the shows of the last decade made it very popular.

    I cut bottles, branches etc. We have woods and sometimes hike with swords. We throw hedge apples at each other and slice them out of the air.

    Holding a well made sword is a connection to warrior culture and to history. I am a student of history.

    I've never reached for a blade when hearing a bump in the night. There are better modern tools for that.

    I did for a time keep a cold steel gladius machete near to hand. Why? It's perfect for the tight confines of a home. It's fast to hand and always ready. Give them the point, and it's all point. It's well made, cuts like a champ, and was about 20 bucks at the time. Made in south Africa. I highly recommend it, it's from thick stock and handles much more like a munitions grade sword.

    Much of my collection is from windlass, through Kult of Athena or museum replicas.

    They use thinner stock so they usually cut well. Many models are made with peened over construction and hold up well. Good carbon steel that takes and holds an edge, and excellent flex and return to true.

    These are usually under 200 and are pretty good. They have deal of the day etc. I recommend :

    Ulfberet sword
    Arbedo


    I use them as mentioned for cutting etc. The US issued a gladius type sword in the civil war I believe, and of course the saber.

    They are kept in a spare room. I guess if someone broke in and I was standing next to one, I'd go for that as it would be fast to hand and I've got a few decades using them all against various mediums.

    Otherwise, yes, repeating arms one has trained with has minimized using them in battle. As pointed out it doesn't make them less deadly.
     
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  2. Gordon
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    Gordon Contributing Member

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    I have a perfect condition Patton saber , not the only one I've had before . I find the Patton sabre balances perfectly for me and if my hand is in the thumb print my thrusts invariably go to my pinpoint atarget. It is big and heavy enough to take off a limb at full force. I have the blade sharpened very sharp ad it is in a custom made leather sheath in my man cave just the distance from the door to allow a full thrust on any enemy that attempts to gain entry.. I have a practice dummy and set it up in that door way :)
     
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  3. Ryden

    Ryden Member

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    You could probably make a full thrust through the door without problem.
     
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  4. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    The Patton saber was purely a thrusting weapon, and in that regard the force was multiplied when the user was on a charging horse. (It was carried on the saddle, and not on the person.)

    The previous M1840 / M1860 sabers were much more versatile.
     
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  5. Stevie-Ray

    Stevie-Ray Member

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    I have a French M1874 Gras bayonet, a WWI 1896 French cavalry sword, and a more useful modern Kukri. Other than that, several large Bowie-type knives. I doubt I'll have any use for them, other than I may keep that Kukri close if ever (God help us) fighting from my house.
     
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  6. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Ditto, and has a spot in the safe just to keep it out of mischief (and the rather absurd replacement price).
    Almost collected a legit 1895 sharpened copy with Wilkinson steel blade, but the bidding went too rich for me.
     
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  7. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    There's a program at the Naval Academy for retired alumni to donate their swords to newly-graduated Ensigns. This seems like a nice gesture (plus they can take a charitable tax deduction).
     
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  8. Gordon
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    Gordon Contributing Member

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    Here is a sword I expected to make money with, and did ! It is the prototype Mad Dog Saxon sword made by Kevin McClung of Mad Dog Knives around 1998 . A 20" blade 1 1/2" wide 1/4" thick of Starrett 01 . Differentially tempered with the hardest part of edge 63 C Rockwell hardness . This particular one was used in Kevins' first and second Knifeknugen events and at such events was used on hanging goat carcasses fby participants who had advanced blade skills. It also had a hard life from the man I obtained it from after he went beserk in a divorce situation and chopped up his furniture. Kevin did a "fluff and buff" on it and made a new sheath after I bought it. I had it 10 years and used it in my Kata Blade work but on non marking impact medium and not regularly, just enough to learn it . It set in my safe until 5 years ago , as I retired from my business and when Mad Dog knives were crazy in demand a Chinese collector found out I had it and contacted me. It was the holy Grail for the emerging Chinese custom American knife investors.
    I had never done a bank transfer before and was quite apprehensive about turning over my banking #ers to a Hong Kong resident for a 5 figure deal , but shazaam ! The $$$$$ 5 figure cash deal was in my bank account over night ! He is now the proud owner of the original Mad Dog Saxon sword in almost new condition, this sword has been "proofed" beyond belief . it even was used to publicly cut a period Katana in two at one early demonstration.
    I actually wanted it as a fighting tool as I was paranoid of Invasion of the USA for 3 decades and when I was young, high and tight and friggin invincible it seemed quite the tool. Trump had been elected, I was getting old , at 70 finally ,and all seemed to be heading for peace and sensibility when I sold it. I think I did well, I still got the Patton Saber just in case :) , and my first year of retirement was a blast with that cash boost :)
    007-7_zps163b5b42.jpg
     
  9. JeffG

    JeffG Member

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    Except for cutting faux tatami mats, water bottles, and pool noodles, I just display my Cheness katana.

    wildbor.jpg
     
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  10. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    They make for memorable wedding gifts and can really drive home a wedding toast:
    hYgjJerL2WtHFRv6ozT-vOvneY3JoG6ymtTC-ZHHCBj1DQ9-Th1hPzg9Uzs7w14iv4ZCHG0d=w579-h770-no?authuser=0.jpg
    cUZw_czabGn5X-nf3xGwy7ApfFV6-XINF2FWFKreuJePNTI7cLPva12thRxhoZAbJRIE6Qku=w579-h770-no?authuser=0.jpg
     
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  11. ozarkhillbilly

    ozarkhillbilly Member

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    I have a friend of mine who got a Lord of the Rings hobbit sword for Christmas from his wife and ended up stabbing himself after 30 minutes, 2 inches into his side. He had to go to the hospital, who then called the police, so while the doctor is sewing him up at 8:30am Christmas morning, the police are interrogating him. After he told his story the police started laughing and told him that was the funniest thing they had heard in weeks and no self respecting criminal would ever claim to have stabbed himself with a hobbit sword Christmas morning. When he left the hospital he said it looked like they had called the entire staff, down to see the idiot who stabbed himself with a hobbit sword.
    So I guess even replicas can do damage if needed.
     
  12. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    That’s similar to my last trip to the ER to have a fish hook removed from my hide… The worst part was the laughter - tough business being the entertainment for the docs and nurses…
     
  13. sean m

    sean m Member

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    To crush my enemies, to see them driven before me, and to hear the lamitation of the women.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
  14. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    I don't think I could bear to hear someone being laminated.
     
  15. JCooperfan1911

    JCooperfan1911 Member

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    They make good photo ops for civil war weapons.

    Other than that, they are good for display and fencing sport. They are worthless for anything else.
     
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  16. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Pointy things
    I've proven that wrong in an earlier post and can cite addition examples.
     
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  17. mcb

    mcb Member

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    We could probably say the same thing about bats and chair legs with a similar number of annual examples. Is that an argument for maces and war-hammers?
     
  18. rust collector
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    rust collector Moderator Staff Member

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  19. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    There's a huge difference between saying something is "worthless" for anything other than sport or display and saying that it would make a good choice for a self-defense weapon compared to modern weapons.

    I wouldn't argue that a mace or war-hammer was a good choice, in general, compared to a handgun, for self-defense, but that's a far stretch from saying they would be worthless in a self-defense situation. They could potentially be extremely effective depending on the circumstances. It's even possible that there could be some odd set of unlikely circumstances* where something like that could even be more effective than a particular handgun.

    *Imagine, for example, this "odd set of unlikely circumstances". A significant number of determined assailants armed with short-reach contact weapons (e.g. knives) or perhaps unarmed, attacking a physically capable person who has his back to a wall and only limited area for an attacker to access him from the front. When one attacker falls, another one has immediate access from relatively close range. That means the defender can address one attacker at a time but another one will pop up immediately after one has withdrawn or been neutralized. In that situation, an effective contact weapon with some reach could be more useful than a small handgun because it's not going to malfunction or run out of ammunition/require the person to pause to reload.
     
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  20. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    If we look at data collected by the DOJ, more people are killed by blunt objects than any combination of rifles every year. More people are killed by bladed weapons than all rifles.

    More lives are taken with "primative" weapons by a large factor than rifles so the effectiveness just in body count is clear. At no point in this discussion has anyone contended that the refined versions of primitive weapons are preferable to firearms, but it is a false premise that they're useless (and real data and real stories demonstrate it).
     
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  21. mcb

    mcb Member

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    I don't believe I have argued that swords (or maces and war hammers) are useless but I have argued that these full size (compared to knives and daggers) melee weapons are impractical in our modern lives. It is not social acceptable to carry a large melee weapon in public in most parts of this country and its easier and more effective in most situation to carry a handgun. And I come full circle as I don't see any good reasons for a sword other than as wall hangers.
     
  22. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't remember anyone advocating carrying a large mele weapon in public over a handgun.
     
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  23. mcb

    mcb Member

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    We keep going round and round, what are you going to use your swords for other than wall-hanger/collecting? Not doubt it can be effective but in our modern life were is it ever practical? Decoration on the wall, or as part of a costume and not much else other than my strange happenstance.
     
  24. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    Quick recap...
    • Someone stated that swords were worthless other than for display or sports.
    • Someone else responded to that saying that they had proved that was not true.
    • You responded to that second statement asking if it was an argument for war hammers or maces.
    So you are correct that in the post in question you didn't directly argue that swords were worthless, but your response was most reasonably interpreted as either support for a comment that sword were worthless other than for display or sports, or as arguing against the statement that swords had real world value as defensive weapons.

    HOWEVER...
    ...this is pretty close to arguing that swords are worthless other than for display, isn't it. :D Pretty close, but not exactly the same thing.

    Ok, I'm going to define some categories. Not because these are the only possible categories, but just to illustrate a bit of the complexity that this topic can encompass.

    Categories relating to the EFFECTIVENESS of swords for self-defense.
    1. Swords are the most effective self-defense weapons ever and will remain that way forever.
    2. Swords are a superior choice for an effective self-defense weapon compared to other widely available modern self-defense weapons.
    3. Swords are a superior choice for an effective self-defense compared to some modern self-defense weapons, equal to others, inferior to some.
    4. Swords are generally inferior in value as effective self-defense weapons compared to other widely available self-defense weapons.
    5. In certain unlikely circumstances swords could be a superior choice for effective self-defense, but not in general.
    6. Swords are an inferior choice for effective self-defense compared to ANY other available self-defense weapons but might still be effective for self-defense in some unlikely circumstances.
    7. Swords are not effective for anything other than sport or display.
    8. Swords are not effective for anything other than display.


    Categories relating to the PRACTICALITY of swords for self-defense.
    1. Swords are the most practical self-defense weapons ever and will remain that way forever.
    2. Swords are a superior choice for a practical self-defense weapon compared to other widely available modern self-defense weapons.
    3. Swords are a superior practical choice for self-defense compared to some modern self-defense weapons, equal to others, inferior to some.
    4. Swords are generally inferior in value as practical self-defense weapons compared to other widely available self-defense weapons.
    5. In certain unlikely circumstances swords could be a superior practical choice for self-defense, but not in general.
    6. Swords are an inferior practical choice for self-defense compared to ANY other available self-defense weapons but might still be practical in some unlikely circumstances.
    7. Swords are impractical for anything other than sport or display.
    8. Swords are impractical for anything other than display.

    Assuming that this discussion is really about exchanging ideas and talking about various points of view, it doesn't make sense to try to mix practicality with effectiveness. It also doesn't make sense to be unclear about what category one is or isn't addressing.
    Is anyone arguing that swords are practical self-defense weapons in general? If they aren't, then it doesn't make any sense to keep asking the question as if they are?

    Similarly, what value is there in responding to comments about effectiveness as if they are related to practicality?

    For whatever it's worth, I think it would be very difficult to argue that swords are a practical choice for self-defense compared to other widely available and similarly priced self-defense weapons.

    But that's entirely different from saying that they are worthless for self-defense. Clearly there are a lot of situations where a sword would neatly solve a self-defense problem if one happened to be readily available.
     
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  25. jdh

    jdh Member

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    Who knows what the future holds. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
     
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