What do you think about this situation?

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Roadwild17

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My buddy was working late on the river one night and cant carry at work. So anyway he knock off and shuts down (hes that last one there& its pitch black dark). As he is walking to his truck he hears something russling in the brush at the edge of the parking lot (about 35-45 ft away). He walks to his truck and hears foot steps in the rocks approaching from where he heard something in the brush. So he walks to his truck, opens the door, and grabs his high-point, As he turns to confront the person waling towards him, he gets a face full of Q-Beam, (those 1-4 million candle power spotlights) and is blinded. He let 2 rounds go and hears the person running off. He gets back to his truck and calls 911. Cops come, find the q-beam on the ground, and no blood. As far as I know it ends with the report and a recommendation to the company for some safety lighting, to cut the brush, & get a fence.


I'm not criticizing his actions to shoot, because I guess he felt his life was in danger, but thats a hard situation to make the call.
 
I'm guessing he's damned lucky that light was not being held by an officer of the law. How did he know it wasn't his best friend playing a prank? I understand his fear, and he may indeed have been in fear of his life, but squeezing off a couple of shots in the direction of a light that's blinding you is not a good idea in my book. There is a need to identify the target, and a Q-Beam is not necessarily hostile.

The better choice would have been to take cover behind the vehicle and ambushing the target once it was identified as hostile.

Still, it's hard to judge a man when you are not in his shoes. What parish was he working in?
 
I wasn't there, but from the information you provided, that could've gone bad 20 different ways. Be hard for a lawyer to explain to a jury at a murder trial that his client was in fear of his life because a cop or Sec guard shined a flahlight on him.
I'd say he's lucky that none of his shots connected. I don't know how long ago this happened, but it could still come back to bite him.

Biker
 
I'll have to second what Biker said.
One of the basic rules of handling firearms is to know your target and what is behind it. Blindly snapping off a couple of rounds because you're in a panic sounds at least as dangeous, if not more so, than just about any other story you find on this forum about ND or AD from time to time. The big difference is that your friend deliberately made the decision to go ahead and do it anyway. Foolish at best, damned dangerous at worst.
 
We would never know who the guy with the light was, or what he wanted. Apperently there werent any uisable prints on the light. As far as my friend goes, inmature and inresponsible sums him up farily well. We dont see eye to eye on a lot of things and really dont get together very much anymore.

O,well Lesonds learned;

Dont work late (unless overtime is involved :p )
Know what your shooting at (identify the threat and determin your reaction)
If you cant see what your shooting at, DONT SHOOT
 
My first inclination is to say your friend should have held his fire, taken cover, and found out who was out there. Then I got to thinking of all the times here, and on other forums, where the light (usually a tactically correct Sure Fire) is used as a weapon.
I think that I would have fired myself. If you are blinded, then you might as well just lay down and wait to be capped behind the ear. Shooting at his assailant at that point was probably prudent after all. If he shot a cop, security guard or friend, then he should not bear the onus of responsibility.
 
Last time I checked, I had not heard of a jury that would consider shining a bright light into somebody's eyes as a move with any harmful intent. I follow your reasoning, and understand what you are saying, but even here in the Gunshine State, where our "streets run red with blood" there would be absolutely no legal defense for his action. Until a CLEAR threat or weapon is presented, one would have to find some other method of response.
 
Roadwild,...I'm not clear on what "waling" means (pardon my ignorance), is it refering to someone "walking", "rushing", "running"? To me this would make a huge difference. I can't believe that any trained LEO or security officer would intentionally blind someone with a light without at least identifying him/herself verbally. (as stated earlier, anyone who did would not be without blame).

If someone does "blind" you with a light, who is to say what else they have in their hands or their intention. Under the circumstances you described, I would probably be thinking I am getting "mugged". (that places a reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death into one mind) A "Mag-light" can be a very formidable weapon in and of itself (if you don't believe so, let someone strike you on the head with a 14" Mag-light with all their might), I believe you'll change your mind once you wake up.

Gorilla,...I think that would qualify as a potential "deadly weapon" (your reasonable perception of a deadly threat is what justifies the use of deadly force), when your blind, how can you tell with certainty? I would like to know more about the criminal history in the area, perhaps the shooter knew something the rest of us are not aware of. I certainly am not advocating reckless shooting of a firearm, but I think to believe that someone would approach you in this manner in an isolated and dark area, with no ill intent would be very naive and dangerous.

There are a lot of unknowns, as there usually are to most crime victims. I would not be too quick to make a judgement call on the reasonableness of these actions without knowing more facts. Aparently the LEO's who arrived did not feel it was too unreasonable.
Good Luck
 
I have no sympathy for your friend for not carrying. His boss placed him in a dangerous situation by his discision of not allowing firearms.

Your friend should of made a choice of quitting the job or ignoring the bosses decision of allowing your friend to be armed.

I would call him a sheeple.
 
Tough call.

It's a tough call because while no threat was plainly seen, the flashlight holder was very much trying to take control of the situation. The sneaking around in the bushes thing sort of hints at no good.
 
"I would call him a sheeple. "

Thats very helpful, thanks for that.

It would be a completely reasonable conclusion that in that situation, you were about to be attacked. Its late, its dark, you're leaving work alone. You hear someone in the bushes, shortly thereafter you hear him approaching you from behind. This is called stalking. He didn't want you to see him. When you turn to look at him after arriving at your vehicle, he blinds you with a powerful flashlight. This was premeditated. This guy never wanted you to see him, and clearly, thought about how to make you not see him. A ridiculously powerful light to screw your nightvision and mess up your eyes would be perfect. What about this doesn't sound like an attack about to commence?

Now here's the thing where I think we have a deliberately created quandry with the "know your target and what is behind it" rule. You couldn't possibly have known your target, that was the whole friggin point behind all the hiding and then the flashlight. That doesn't mean you weren't about to be attacked. You holding your fire in a situation like that would only ensure that the situation progressed into what the man with the flashlight intended for it to be. You would be allowing him total control of the situation. Not acceptable.

The intent of this man seems clear and premeditated. But to protect yourself, you absolutely have to wrestle control of the situation from your assailant or would-be assailant. If that means you have no recourse aside from shooting, then shoot. Its obvious that this guy was up to no good, and he had planned to be up to no good, probably for some time.

Your friend prevented an attack on himself. Thats what guns are for.
 
cant fire the dead guy..........

i agree with whoever said he should have just carried anyway. some jobs are high risk. i jocked a register at a gas station 11pm till 7am at a freeway onramp for 3-1/2 years. i was lucky that my bosses policy regarding everything was "dont tell me about it" but if her position was to ban carry then id have done it anyway. id prefer living long enough to get fired for it.
 
Roadwild17 said: So he walks to his truck, opens the door, and grabs his high-point, As he turns to confront the person
Click to expand...

What do I think? Frankly. . . .

If he managed to make it to his vehicle, had time to open a door, retrieve a firearm, turn around, and fire it . . .


he probably had time to get in, lock the door, start it, and drive away.


Anyone who claims they "keep a gun in the car for protection", I always wonder how they are going to answer that question.
 
BullfrogKen, your "he probably had time to get in, lock the door, start it, and drive away." still says, "Probably." As in "Maybe."

And maybe not.

So I dunno. If I make it to my truck, acquire the pistol and turn and display it, preparing to fire, I figure an honest guy would not keep the Q-Beam on me--and would say something to try to stop me from shooting.

But we can play mind games on woulda/coulda/shoulda for forty forevers...

Art
 
Note he is alive.

I agree being blinded with OC spray is a super comparison.

Question, would a reasonable man be afraid of death or great bodily harm in this situation?

The light holder had plenty of time to speak, move the light beam, retreat, leave etc. during the time the VICTIM had to reach his vehicle and retrieve his firearm.

Still advancing? I would vote good shoot, Bad aim.

When you carry you had better have the determination to apply the force required. Waiting to long is gonna kill you. Situations go way against you faster than you can belive. Practice making crucial decisions fast.
 
I think a reasonable man could very easily arrive at the conclusion that this person meant him serious harm. This act was so obviously premeditated that I wonder if the Flashlight Man knew your friend had a gun. He obviously knew your friend would be there and that the car wasn't a derelict left there overnight. He made sure nobody else was around before he started. He made a very obviously planned attempt to keep himself from being identified. This just screams "mugging in progress" to me, if not worse.

I'd be very surprised if the Flashlight Man wasn't prepared to kill your friend.

I think your friend's reaction was likely right on target. We weren't there, so we can't know how close the Flashlight Man was to your friend by the time your friend finally got to his car. If the Flashlight Man was uncomfortably close, its entirely possible that your friend thought he had to get his gun or he would be grabbed and pulled out of his truck.

What I can't get over is how clear the Flashlight Man's malice aforethought is. He waited for the last person to leave. He knew the last person out would be alone. He hid in the bushes. He stalked his target. He had a plan to ensure that he wouldn't be seen even if he wasn't concealed. He may have even known that the last guy out would be your friend, that your friend always parked in roughly the same spot, what his truck looked like, maybe even that he would be working late tonight. That's flat-out scary.

The places I've worked at don't let people out at night by themselves. At best buy, cashiers leaving would be walked to their cars by other people who were leaving. Nobody left alone. It might be wise to pick up that doctrine.

Someone said that the guy with the flashlight appeared to be a fool. I disagree with that. I think this is pretty decent proof that criminals think about their profession. This guy was no fool.
 
Hoji...

I've been OCd and I've been "falshlighted" (flashlit?:) ) and there is no comparison. It's the difference between getting hit with a pillow and a sledgehammer.

Also, I've had a cop shine his light in my face without first IDing himself.

Biker
 
Also, I've had a cop shine his light in my face without first IDing himself.
Click to expand...

Was the cop hiding in bushes, and then came running out before he shined his light in your face?

I don't recommend shooting at anyone who shiens a light in your face, but the circumstances here tend to show someone with bad intent.

I think whether the shoot was justifiable or not depends on the distance of the light-shiner.

If he was still 35-45 feet away, probably not ok. If he had a gun and wanted to shoot your friend, he already would have done so. If it was me I would have the gun ready, but would give the light-shiner a chance to identify himself.

If he is within 10 or 15 feet (or I can hear him running hard from slightly further out), then go ahead and shoot.
 
What do you think about this situation?
Click to expand...

I think that Q-Beam may have had a hole in it if that were me. :D I do have a habit of inquiring "who's there" though. I'd at least make that much of an attempt to identify the target. Too bad for them if I got a light in the face instead of a verbal reply.
 
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