What exactly is "limp wristing" a gun?
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R.W.Dale
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it's when a person spends several hundred dollars on a gun from a reputable manufacturer that isn't properly fitted and tuned and thus won't run right except in the best of circumstances. Thus some other online kool aid drinker with the same firearm essentially says the gun cannot be at fault so it must be the shooter. Hence the term "limp wristing"
Note how cheap autoloaders are said to "jam" or is called a "jam-O-matic" but something that costs $800 is always said to be "limp wristed" when the same malfunction occurs.
What's really funny is when someone post videos of various autoloaders fired and functioning with 2 fingers the "limpwrist" crowd will deny that's what's happening
Note how cheap autoloaders are said to "jam" or is called a "jam-O-matic" but something that costs $800 is always said to be "limp wristed" when the same malfunction occurs.
What's really funny is when someone post videos of various autoloaders fired and functioning with 2 fingers the "limpwrist" crowd will deny that's what's happening
MaterDei
Member
Krochus lost me.
Limp wristing is when the shooter doesn't hold a semi-automatic handgun firm enough. When this happens, some of the recoil force needed to cycle the slide is lost and as a result the gun malfunctions (FTE or FTF). It is not necessarily a limp wrist. It can also be caused by too loose of a grip.
Limp wristing is when the shooter doesn't hold a semi-automatic handgun firm enough. When this happens, some of the recoil force needed to cycle the slide is lost and as a result the gun malfunctions (FTE or FTF). It is not necessarily a limp wrist. It can also be caused by too loose of a grip.
I think what krochus is trying to say is that when somebody spends >600 dollars on a gun and has issues with feed issues its called junk but when they spend more it becomes the shooter's fault.
If I am correct, limp wristing is when you do not hold the firearm firmly enough, or you do not keep your wrist "stiff" enough, so that when the shot is fired and the slide racks all the way back, the gun rotates in the shooter's hand, or with his hands. When this happens the firearm can misfeed because of the way the recoil is directed.
How's my aim on this one?
If I am correct, limp wristing is when you do not hold the firearm firmly enough, or you do not keep your wrist "stiff" enough, so that when the shot is fired and the slide racks all the way back, the gun rotates in the shooter's hand, or with his hands. When this happens the firearm can misfeed because of the way the recoil is directed.
How's my aim on this one?
R.W.Dale
Member
Exactly!
Or in a slight variation it's also the same phenomena when someone inquires about warranty work on a jamming $1200 m1911 and the manufacturer suggest a 800 round break in period, Hoping the owner will either correct the issue on his own or lose interest and unload the piece of garbage before he gets to 800 rds
Bottom line if your gun can be limwristed or requires a break in it's not functioning properly and needs to be fixed
Jim Watson
Member
Krochus has a point. I have no doubt that a weak grip or "limp wrist" CAN cause malfunctions, I just don't think it is nearly as common as the gunmakers would like you to think. In many cases "limp wristing" is from the same page in the gun company dictionary as "break-in" where both of them mean "Go away and leave us alone."
no doubt to that some guns limp more easily than others, but I have to agree with Krochus. If a gun for whatever money has a tendency to limp alot if not done exactly right, then for me anyhow that gun is not designed right. We never heard of that "wording' 5 years ago. today it is common to blame the shooter when possably it is gun related. the kt forum used that term alot with their small guns. I have heard it more there than any other forum, and maybe they were more prone to limping than other guns. i do not know I never had one issue with my kt's in that sense of the word. We don't hear it hardly at all on the lcp forum and that gun is almost a direct copy of the kt 380, so go figure........
Firing a lightweight mini-sized gun like the kel-tec pf-9 will result in cycling failures if the weapon is not held exceptionally firm (at least for me). Full-size guns ime can be fired from a flimsy hand every time, and will still cycle fine.
Hungry Seagull
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Limp-wristed shooters must be trying to lisp thier way through the shoot manual and wondering why the gun does not hit the center of the target.
They need to grow a pair and hold those hand guns right.
Ive always heard dont buy anything you cannot hold and carry.... like a wife... well.. ahem...
They need to grow a pair and hold those hand guns right.
Ive always heard dont buy anything you cannot hold and carry.... like a wife... well.. ahem...
The Lone Haranguer
Member
The frame of the gun needs to be held as firmly as possible so as not to absorb the force of the recoil, which is needed to fully and quickly propel the slide to the rear. "Limp-wristing" means that you are not holding your hand and wrist still and straight in relation to your forearm. It is not physically possible to literally lock your wrist. What you are doing is using muscle tension to hold your hand and wrist still. When the gun fires, your hand, wrist and forearm need to move in unison, like a pump handle. Some guns are sensitive to this, others not.
I will not accept any pistol that is overly sensitive to a perfect hold to function. You cannot always depend on a perfect hold in a gunfight - you may not be able to form a perfect stance, or you might be wounded. Nor will I accept "You held it wrong" as an excuse for a consistently malfunctioning firearm. I believe the phenomenon exists, but the term is used too often and indiscriminately.
I will not accept any pistol that is overly sensitive to a perfect hold to function. You cannot always depend on a perfect hold in a gunfight - you may not be able to form a perfect stance, or you might be wounded. Nor will I accept "You held it wrong" as an excuse for a consistently malfunctioning firearm. I believe the phenomenon exists, but the term is used too often and indiscriminately.
geronimo509
Member
I don't mind a small(200-300) break in period. With the tight tolerances nowadays its not so bad. However, I have purposely tried to limp wrist all of my guns and make them malfunction. Needless to say, they all passed the test and worked flawless. Lone haranguer said what I wanted to in his 2nd paragraph
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benderx4
Member
Limp wristing becomes more of a factor when "limp" ammo is being used as well. The wrist acts as a foundation to the cycling of the slide, and the lesser pressure of the "limp" ammo can not compensate for the "moving" foundation.
1SOW
Member
Ammo and/or spring changes can fix or cause some of the 'limp wristing'.
I agree it should fire and cycle with two fingers "IF" it is set up correctly for the ammo being used. P. S. mine will.'
IMO A standard handgun should come from the factory ready to shoot without special provisions other than ammo power limits.
I agree it should fire and cycle with two fingers "IF" it is set up correctly for the ammo being used. P. S. mine will.'
IMO A standard handgun should come from the factory ready to shoot without special provisions other than ammo power limits.
Bobo
Member
A semi automatic pistols, other than a few gas operated exceptions, work on the physical principles of kinetic recoil energy from the fired round to operate the slide action of the gun.
When the pistol is fired the recoil energy is used up in the movement of the gun, its parts and everything attached to the gun including the shooter. There is a required amount of resistance to movement by the frame to allow the slide action to work. If the shooter allows too much movement of the frame, commonly by relaxing the wrist of the gun holding hand (limp wristing) the pistols action will not cycle properly. The shooters hand movement uses up too much of the recoil energy essentially stealing it from the slide.
The problem is more common in light framed pistols or when shooting low powered ammo.
It is a real phenomenon. I have a friend that has a real problem jamming pistols due to his relaxed grip. We where at the range once and he was shooting his Norinco 213 9mm Tokarev. He'd jam 2 or 3 rounds of every magazine. I ran 4 magazines of ammo through it and couldn't get it to jam once but hand it back and he'd have it jammed on the second shot. He managed to Jam my Beretta 92, my Glock 19, my Sig 220, all of which I've put many thousands of rounds through with never a jam. He does fine with a full size 1911 or a 7.62 Tokarev. but the 1911's a heavy framed pistol and the 7.62 Tok is a hot round. After some coaching and a bit of chiding regarding limp wristing and holding the gun tighter, his problems cleared up.
When the pistol is fired the recoil energy is used up in the movement of the gun, its parts and everything attached to the gun including the shooter. There is a required amount of resistance to movement by the frame to allow the slide action to work. If the shooter allows too much movement of the frame, commonly by relaxing the wrist of the gun holding hand (limp wristing) the pistols action will not cycle properly. The shooters hand movement uses up too much of the recoil energy essentially stealing it from the slide.
The problem is more common in light framed pistols or when shooting low powered ammo.
It is a real phenomenon. I have a friend that has a real problem jamming pistols due to his relaxed grip. We where at the range once and he was shooting his Norinco 213 9mm Tokarev. He'd jam 2 or 3 rounds of every magazine. I ran 4 magazines of ammo through it and couldn't get it to jam once but hand it back and he'd have it jammed on the second shot. He managed to Jam my Beretta 92, my Glock 19, my Sig 220, all of which I've put many thousands of rounds through with never a jam. He does fine with a full size 1911 or a 7.62 Tokarev. but the 1911's a heavy framed pistol and the 7.62 Tok is a hot round. After some coaching and a bit of chiding regarding limp wristing and holding the gun tighter, his problems cleared up.
usp9
Member
If limpwristing is real, then a pistol will not function if fired from a fixed but loose clamp or stand? Has anyone ever tested whether or not this actually happens?
Jim Watson
Member
You can shoot a 1911 with light loads and a "tea party" grip; the gun held only by the middle and ring fingers, the pinkie and thumb flying loose in midair.
On the other hand, some of the "modern" pistols require more support for the recoil operation, I have heard enough accounts of females and juveniles unable to shoot Glocks reliably to agree something is going on. I have seen people suddenly presented with a "weak hand only" stage at IDPA have trouble with plastic pistols.
On the other hand, some of the "modern" pistols require more support for the recoil operation, I have heard enough accounts of females and juveniles unable to shoot Glocks reliably to agree something is going on. I have seen people suddenly presented with a "weak hand only" stage at IDPA have trouble with plastic pistols.
burningsquirrels
Member
simply put, limp wristing is shooting with your wrist or grip so weak, that the shooter absorbs too much recoil energy. not enough energy is kept in the recoil spring, resulting in a short cycle of the slide. that short cycle can fail to feed the next round, fail or improperly extract and eject the unfired casing, or any other function of the firearm requiring a full cycle of the slide.
earlthegoat2
Member
Its an alternative lifestyle.
MaterDei
Member
I don't understand why people think that 'limp wristing' is just a cop out for poor design or manufacture. A very light recoil spring will eliminate the limp wristing issue but will also put more stress on the slide and whatever it is in the pistol that acts as the slide stop. I know, for example, with my Camp carbines that they were manufactured with recoil springs that were too light. This resulted in broken hammer strut bridges and broken stocks. Is this a design flaw? Yes, the recoil spring needs to be stiffer.
On the other hand, a recoil spring that is too heavy will not reliably cycle all types of ammo. Take a semi 22 pistol and shoot a CB short or a subsonic LR round from it. Most will not cycle properly with the short and some will even malfunction with the subsonic round. Lightening the spring can often fix this problem but also introduces other problems when shooting higher velocity rounds. Design flaw? I don't think so. I call it making your gun 'fit for purpose'.
When designers go through the exercise of determining what spring to put in their guns I would hope that they don't leave the shooter out of their equations. I'm sure they use some generally accepted numbers that represents the amount of resistance that the shooter's hand, wrist, arm, and body bring represent.
I would be interesting to hear what a real gun designer has to say about this issue.
What about you competition shooters who are constantly trying to shoot with lighter and lighter loads so that you can recover more quickly from recoil for follow-on shots. I would suspect that you play this game all the time. Too little spring pressure and the slide to stop collision flips the muzzle too much. Too much spring and the likelyhood of a malfunction increases.
Just my $.02. Take it for what it's worth.
On the other hand, a recoil spring that is too heavy will not reliably cycle all types of ammo. Take a semi 22 pistol and shoot a CB short or a subsonic LR round from it. Most will not cycle properly with the short and some will even malfunction with the subsonic round. Lightening the spring can often fix this problem but also introduces other problems when shooting higher velocity rounds. Design flaw? I don't think so. I call it making your gun 'fit for purpose'.
When designers go through the exercise of determining what spring to put in their guns I would hope that they don't leave the shooter out of their equations. I'm sure they use some generally accepted numbers that represents the amount of resistance that the shooter's hand, wrist, arm, and body bring represent.
I would be interesting to hear what a real gun designer has to say about this issue.
What about you competition shooters who are constantly trying to shoot with lighter and lighter loads so that you can recover more quickly from recoil for follow-on shots. I would suspect that you play this game all the time. Too little spring pressure and the slide to stop collision flips the muzzle too much. Too much spring and the likelyhood of a malfunction increases.
Just my $.02. Take it for what it's worth.
golfish1951
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limp wristing
i would like some input on this "limp wristing" and the problems that existed with the glock 36. i have a glock 17 and 22C. after i got over the "plastic" i have come to be a glockoholic. i have shot these two guns repeatedly since 2001 when purchased new without one problem. i have used many different loads and brands. i just received my CC permit (what a headache that was) and after much consideration i purchased a new glock 36 for carry. i like the idea of a 45 sort of don't bring a knife to a gunfight mentality. now i find all of this talk about numerous problems with the glock 36, i thought glocks were faultless! freeze 'em, throw "em in the mud, whateverer and they ALWAYS fire. imagine how i felt when i started reading about all the problems this model 36 has or had. i noticed most of the problems were dated in 2001, 2002 and 2003. did glock address these problems and is it now perfect like my other glocks? help me guys. this site seems to be the most updated so somebody tell me i didn't just waste $600.
i would like some input on this "limp wristing" and the problems that existed with the glock 36. i have a glock 17 and 22C. after i got over the "plastic" i have come to be a glockoholic. i have shot these two guns repeatedly since 2001 when purchased new without one problem. i have used many different loads and brands. i just received my CC permit (what a headache that was) and after much consideration i purchased a new glock 36 for carry. i like the idea of a 45 sort of don't bring a knife to a gunfight mentality. now i find all of this talk about numerous problems with the glock 36, i thought glocks were faultless! freeze 'em, throw "em in the mud, whateverer and they ALWAYS fire. imagine how i felt when i started reading about all the problems this model 36 has or had. i noticed most of the problems were dated in 2001, 2002 and 2003. did glock address these problems and is it now perfect like my other glocks? help me guys. this site seems to be the most updated so somebody tell me i didn't just waste $600.
AK103K
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These should clear up some of the misconceptions....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsewsolPyBU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh9JhCyFFxA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsewsolPyBU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh9JhCyFFxA
maksim
Member
exactly my experience. when i first learned to shoot, on a 22 browning buckmark was no issue. when i started shooting the bereta 92fs, would occassionaly fail to eject due to not holding the gun firmly. a few more issues with the h&k usp 45. Right now.... no issues.
but it is real... and that youtube video above shows you.
I am surprised about the glocks though. hehe.
but it is real... and that youtube video above shows you.
I am surprised about the glocks though. hehe.
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