Just saying that when education is the objective, it is it better to encourage interest than to point out absence of knowledge.
There...all better.
What firearm ignorance have you encountered lately?
- Thread starter drastic_quench
- Start date
- Status
There...all better.
Don't even get me started. I sometimes regret all the letters and emails I write and send to politicians in order to help change laws in favor of gun possession and use. There are just an extraordinary amount of idiots walking around out in the streets. Unfortunately for all of us, some of them are armed now. That in a perfect world should not have been allowed to breed, let alone carry a deadly weapon. But unfortunately you cannot be selective in giving people their rights, either they have them or they don't. But don't think that there will not be consequences for our efforts in allowing everyone to carry a gun who hasn't been arrested for a crime.
there are a lot of smart bad guys and a lot of stupid good guys in the world.
I am afraid of being shot by some armchair gun authority more than a predicate felon. The one who read a few gun magazines and made a few trips to a class, from some other guy who has been shooting and studying weapons and their use, for all of 6 months to 2 years, and is now an authority on guns,they may indeed be more of a threat than a skilled felon, who has no interest in shooting anyone, other than just using the gun to accomplish their end result, "whatever that is. But I could easily see 2 or 3 people opening up on a bad guy in a department store or a bank and shooting me, as collateral damage.
If I felt that 20% of the population were complete idiots before they were armed to the teeth, then why would I feel safer now?
Unfortunately this is what happens in a free society, blink, blink.
I say these things half kidding, but in reality many people take themselves much too seriously with their banter, and have never even been in a fist fight let alone a shootout.
Usually the hollow log makes the most noise. This is especially true in our sport, there are just too many people who really think that they know what they are talking about, and offer their opinion as fact, when it is not.
Many also feel that if you disagree with them, you are somehow challenging their imaginary illusion of a persona that they created for themselves online or at their local tavern or gathering place. Very few people know what they are talking about, I am not proclaiming that I know more that someone else, but for god's sake some opinions are best left unsaid.
It's just so easy to get peoples feathers ruffled by saying that 9mm is the same as 40, or 45. that can start a 200 post rebuttal about nothing really. We all know the same basic things, if you shoot someone in the head it's far better than in the stomach, yet the arguments can go on forever, reaching new heights on ridiculousness.
So we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg in this quickly growing activity we have chosen as our hobby, there will be much more stupidity ahead you can be sure.
there are a lot of smart bad guys and a lot of stupid good guys in the world.
I am afraid of being shot by some armchair gun authority more than a predicate felon. The one who read a few gun magazines and made a few trips to a class, from some other guy who has been shooting and studying weapons and their use, for all of 6 months to 2 years, and is now an authority on guns,they may indeed be more of a threat than a skilled felon, who has no interest in shooting anyone, other than just using the gun to accomplish their end result, "whatever that is. But I could easily see 2 or 3 people opening up on a bad guy in a department store or a bank and shooting me, as collateral damage.
If I felt that 20% of the population were complete idiots before they were armed to the teeth, then why would I feel safer now?
Unfortunately this is what happens in a free society, blink, blink.
I say these things half kidding, but in reality many people take themselves much too seriously with their banter, and have never even been in a fist fight let alone a shootout.
Usually the hollow log makes the most noise. This is especially true in our sport, there are just too many people who really think that they know what they are talking about, and offer their opinion as fact, when it is not.
Many also feel that if you disagree with them, you are somehow challenging their imaginary illusion of a persona that they created for themselves online or at their local tavern or gathering place. Very few people know what they are talking about, I am not proclaiming that I know more that someone else, but for god's sake some opinions are best left unsaid.
It's just so easy to get peoples feathers ruffled by saying that 9mm is the same as 40, or 45. that can start a 200 post rebuttal about nothing really. We all know the same basic things, if you shoot someone in the head it's far better than in the stomach, yet the arguments can go on forever, reaching new heights on ridiculousness.
So we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg in this quickly growing activity we have chosen as our hobby, there will be much more stupidity ahead you can be sure.
The cartridge for the 9mm is .391" right at the web, where the 380 auto is .374". Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like there would be a lot of slop in the chamber with a 380 in it.
A bunch of the younger guys at work play "Call of Duty" and all the other "shooter" games, and actually think that the wounding effects in those games are realistic.
Most of them seem to want "the shotgun with the grenade launcher" so if you can't shoot 'em close, you just blow up the whole building.
And they all seem to know all about ballistics on these weapons.SERIOUSLY!!
Most of them seem to want "the shotgun with the grenade launcher" so if you can't shoot 'em close, you just blow up the whole building.
And they all seem to know all about ballistics on these weapons.SERIOUSLY!!
J-Bar
Member
And a somewhat lighter contribution to this thread...
I was watching Clint Eastwood's "Unforgiven" on DVD again, and caught an error that I had not noted before. The story supposedly takes place in 1880, but the posse members complain that the store will not sell them anymore .30-30 shells on credit. Of course the .30-30 was not introduced until 1894.
Yet one more example in a long history of similar ignorance which could be so easily avoided.
I was watching Clint Eastwood's "Unforgiven" on DVD again, and caught an error that I had not noted before. The story supposedly takes place in 1880, but the posse members complain that the store will not sell them anymore .30-30 shells on credit. Of course the .30-30 was not introduced until 1894.
Yet one more example in a long history of similar ignorance which could be so easily avoided.
It sounds like you were there when my CCW class did their range work. Some of them couldn't hit a life size target at 7 feet. But the instructors let them "practice" until they managed to get it done by sheer luck. The instructors were knowledgeable in my class though. But I was in the second CCW class in the state of Ohio. I'm sure there are lots of "experts" teaching all sorts of bull now. I have seen people become instant experts in fact. It took one guy a whole week to tell me I was wrong about a shotgun that he knew absolutely nothing about when he first showed up on that board. But soon he was with the "in crowd" bashing a well respected brand of firearms as if he actually knew what he was talking about. This whole process took less than a week actually. My 40 years of experience (at that time) just didn't stack up to the stuff he had read on the net from 2 idiots who didn't know better than to stick a shotgun in a foam case and store it there. Because their shotguns rusted then they all must surely rust too. And they had a whole bunch of disciples because it's always more fun to act smarter than someone else even if you don't know a thing. So when the newbies got the chance to bash people who disagreed with the fellows trying to "protect them" from the awful Remington 870 Express which everyone knew was a "rust magnet". It's funny how mine has never rusted in the many years I've owned it. I wonder if that instant expert is still preaching about how the Express will rust in 5 minutes. He's probably telling everyone that his High Point is better than any Sig P210 ever made.
It's hard not to laugh at these clowns. But then I think what you think - that these people are armed and dangerous. It's the price we pay for our rights unfortunately. And it is an expensive payment too. I would fully expect to be as likely to be shot by one of those people (who failed to hit a man size target at 7 feet) as their intended target would be. Some people need to learn many things about their guns before they start carrying them. But we can't deny them their rights and expect to keep ours.
I've noticed a few mistakes in that movie regarding their guns. For example the deputies all cocked their rifles when they confronted English Bob and the writer outside the barber shop. When the writer reached inside his pouch for his book (to prove he was a writer) they cocked their guns again and no shells ejected. In the shootout at Greeley's after Munny kills everyone the writer asks him about the Spencer rifle he just handed to Munny. He seemed to be implying that he used it in the shooting but of course he used his shotgun and the Schofield revolver.
Last edited:
Tommygunn
Member
1895, actually. Yes the model 1894 Winchester came out in '94 but Winchester was still perfecting its nickel steel for the barrel which it deemed necessary for the pressures of the smokeless powder charged .30-30 round, which debuted in 1895.
Well at least here we can vent to each other about how frustrating some of these folks can be. I must say that we have some of the brightest and most knowledgeable folks on just about every gun related subject that one might need help with. And very few of the other kind.
WestKentucky
Member
My city-girl mother in law took care of the furry kids this week while the wife and I were on vacation. The cat lives in the man room with my reloading bench. She couldn't feed the zoo because my ammo rack had her too nervous to go in the room. She sent my father in law after day1. Father in law called and asked what all of the stuff on the black table is for, referencing reloading stuff, and then in all seriousness asked if anybody was as good at making ammo at home as the people in the factories, and how much extra did a man have to pay to say that they made it them self.
Red Wind
Member
^You are correct,but that is borderline! We are not all gunaholics! 
RetiredUSNChief
Member
There's ignorance...and then there's ignorance.
Perhaps the most important thing to remember about ignorance is "ignorance is opportunity".
We can either take that opportunity to open people up, enlighten them, and educate them or we can take the opposite tact.
I suppose we can always take a third tact and let people persist in their ignorance with no input from us at all. Whatever.
Remember this, though...if we do not take advantage of the opportunity to educate and enlighten that the ignorance which people have presents us, then there will always be people out there who will take the opportunity to use their ignorance to support their own cause. And we know where that road leads.
What kind of rag to clean a gun? There's an opening right there.
Someone's buying the wrong ammo for the gun they have? That's a segue into a gun conversation if I ever heard one.
Better to educate and make a friend than to turn someone off to firearms or allow their ignorance to foment frustration of bring them to harm.
That said...there are always the true idiots out there that we could all do better off without.
Perhaps the most important thing to remember about ignorance is "ignorance is opportunity".
We can either take that opportunity to open people up, enlighten them, and educate them or we can take the opposite tact.
I suppose we can always take a third tact and let people persist in their ignorance with no input from us at all. Whatever.
Remember this, though...if we do not take advantage of the opportunity to educate and enlighten that the ignorance which people have presents us, then there will always be people out there who will take the opportunity to use their ignorance to support their own cause. And we know where that road leads.
What kind of rag to clean a gun? There's an opening right there.
Someone's buying the wrong ammo for the gun they have? That's a segue into a gun conversation if I ever heard one.
Better to educate and make a friend than to turn someone off to firearms or allow their ignorance to foment frustration of bring them to harm.
That said...there are always the true idiots out there that we could all do better off without.
Last edited:
oh fun things like idiot clerks selling people 20 guage birdshot for low recoil deer hunting. or selling 22lr rifles to people for low recoil deer hunting.
But my favorites are youtube videos were people say they love a gun because it always funcitons, but that its a piece of crap because its too innacurate when they cant get a revolver sighted in for 125 jsp 357 loads to have the same poi/poa when using 38 special wadcutters.
But my favorites are youtube videos were people say they love a gun because it always funcitons, but that its a piece of crap because its too innacurate when they cant get a revolver sighted in for 125 jsp 357 loads to have the same poi/poa when using 38 special wadcutters.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Oh...and I've my share of dealing with ignorance, too. Fortunately, it's all lately been due to honest ignorance accompanied by a real desire to learn. Being that they involve my wife and children, it takes a special tact to deal with, especially with my wife. I have to be careful not to discourage and to treat her as by my partner and my equal, especially with the things that may frustrate her.
Sure did see the words. idiot, ignorant, stupid, ridiculous, and in general a good deal of condescension in this thread. I think one said "an extraordinary amount of idiots walking around out in the streets." We all know you walk on streets. Right? You can be in the street, but you walk on the street.
Mine would have to be anytime someone hands you a loaded firearm.
Mine would have to be anytime someone hands you a loaded firearm.
Potatohead
Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2013
- Messages
- 5,375
Potatohead
Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2013
- Messages
- 5,375
Potatohead
Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2013
- Messages
- 5,375
Im with retired USNchief here.There's ignorance...and then there's ignorance.
Perhaps the most important thing to remember about ignorance is "ignorance is opportunity".
We can either take that opportunity to open people up, enlighten them, and educate them or we can take the opposite tact.
I suppose we can always take a third tact and let people persist in their ignorance with no input from us at all. Whatever.
Remember this, though...if we do not take advantage of the opportunity to educate and enlighten that the ignorance which people have presents us, then there will always be people out there who will take the opportunity to use their ignorance to support their own cause. And we know where that road leads.
What kind of rag to clean a gun? There's an opening right there.
Someone's buying the wrong ammo for the gun they have? That's a segway into a gun conversation if I ever heard one.
Better to educate and make a friend than to turn someone off to firearms or allow their ignorance to foment frustration of bring them to harm.
That said...there are always the true idiots out there that we could all do better off without.
Speaking as someone who is maybe just exiting total newb, to intermediate or advanced newb, (held my first gun a little over one yr ago) i have to say, I was WISHING someone at the LGS would have helped me out. I couldnt get any info out of them without them going over and beyond trying to make me feel like an idiot.
Theres a lot to learn about all of this stuff and I think sometimes the people that have been doing it forever forget that.
I wish someone would have told me "you know it's going to be a hard to get an optic on that AR with a carry handle, you might want to think about getting an optic ready version".
I wouldnt have ended up with a giant scope attached to the top of the carry handle!
Looks like a triple decker bus. And yes I know it was ultimately my fault, that's about the time I knew I needed to join an online forum to get some help.
barnbwt
member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
- Messages
- 7,340
A guy thinking he can make a STEN by rewelding the cut up receiver from a parts kit and pinning the selector. "Wut's 'open bolt?'" "Wut's 'readily convertible?'" "Wut's an 'SBR?'" "Wut's manufacture of an illegal 'machine gun?'" "Wut's '922r?'" "Wut's 'ten to twenty in a federal P'?'"
Hopefully his 'indiscretion' was chopped into pieces before the wrong people found out.
"I was WISHING someone at the LGS would have helped me out."
Aw, c'mon, you would've just discounted his opinion because it didn't jive with what you thought you wanted
The coop di greasy: “I’m persuaded these [muzzle loader sabots] are bullets. They look like bullets. They are hollow point. They are not musket balls.” -DC Judge Morin
“It’s taken four lawyers all afternoon to get through an interpretation of whether or not these are lawful,” -DC Judge Morin
“None of these people know anything about gun issues, including the judge.” -Defendant Mark Witashek
"In the afternoon on Wednesday, Judge Morin shook the [misfired] plastic [shotgun] shell and tried to listen to something inside. He said he could not hear any gunpowder. He then asked the lawyers to open the shell to see if there was powder inside." ... "The prosecutors and police officers left the courtroom to try to find a lab that was open in the afternoon to bring the judge to cut the plastic off the section that holds the pellets. When that proved not possible in the same day, the judge decided to just rule on the bullets."
-Emily Miller, Reporter
TCB
Hopefully his 'indiscretion' was chopped into pieces before the wrong people found out.
"I was WISHING someone at the LGS would have helped me out."
Aw, c'mon, you would've just discounted his opinion because it didn't jive with what you thought you wanted
The coop di greasy: “I’m persuaded these [muzzle loader sabots] are bullets. They look like bullets. They are hollow point. They are not musket balls.” -DC Judge Morin
“It’s taken four lawyers all afternoon to get through an interpretation of whether or not these are lawful,” -DC Judge Morin
“None of these people know anything about gun issues, including the judge.” -Defendant Mark Witashek
"In the afternoon on Wednesday, Judge Morin shook the [misfired] plastic [shotgun] shell and tried to listen to something inside. He said he could not hear any gunpowder. He then asked the lawyers to open the shell to see if there was powder inside." ... "The prosecutors and police officers left the courtroom to try to find a lab that was open in the afternoon to bring the judge to cut the plastic off the section that holds the pellets. When that proved not possible in the same day, the judge decided to just rule on the bullets."
-Emily Miller, Reporter
TCB
Ignorance of hardware is understandable, especially for new shooters. The ignorance that I don't understand is from those who are well versed in the history, hardware, etc. and profess to be great shooters, but they are ignorant about how to apply the principles of shooting and/or how to develop skill.
monotonous_iterancy
Member
- Joined
- May 27, 2012
- Messages
- 915
Back in high school, I talked to a guy who said he had an accidental discharge with a .22 because he pulled the trigger "to check if the safety worked".
One time at Wal-Mart, I was looking for home-defense guns. I looked at some shotguns. Then I asked to see a Beretta CX4 Storm, which I mentioned by name. The lady at the counter pointed to the ARs.
Then I asked if they had any other pistol-caliber carbines. She asked, "In 12 gauge?"
It's frustrating sometimes, but a lot of the people who work the counter at Wal-Mart know very little about guns. They probably have that position because it's where their supervisor placed them.
One time at Wal-Mart, I was looking for home-defense guns. I looked at some shotguns. Then I asked to see a Beretta CX4 Storm, which I mentioned by name. The lady at the counter pointed to the ARs.
Then I asked if they had any other pistol-caliber carbines. She asked, "In 12 gauge?"
It's frustrating sometimes, but a lot of the people who work the counter at Wal-Mart know very little about guns. They probably have that position because it's where their supervisor placed them.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I was in a Gander Mountain a long while back and saw something that, perhaps wasn't quite ignorance but struck me as pretty danged funny, and a little sad.
Really pleasant looking middle-aged fellow, so stereotypical as to make you grin -- a little paunchy, kind of short, comb-over gone grey, spectacles, and sweater vest (no joke) -- standing next to the gun counter with his 8-year-old son, and the teenaged redneck kid in the blaze orange vest working the counter was saying, "Oh, yeah, for home defense, this is the THING!" -- while handing him a pistol-grip-only Mossberg or Remington 12 ga., complete with heat shield.
The guy was peering at counter boy, through his wire-rim spectacles, like maybe the boy was from Mars and was trying to hand him a live tuna.
I've no idea what they finally decided but it was pretty clear they were not meeting with success at that point.
Really pleasant looking middle-aged fellow, so stereotypical as to make you grin -- a little paunchy, kind of short, comb-over gone grey, spectacles, and sweater vest (no joke) -- standing next to the gun counter with his 8-year-old son, and the teenaged redneck kid in the blaze orange vest working the counter was saying, "Oh, yeah, for home defense, this is the THING!" -- while handing him a pistol-grip-only Mossberg or Remington 12 ga., complete with heat shield.
The guy was peering at counter boy, through his wire-rim spectacles, like maybe the boy was from Mars and was trying to hand him a live tuna.
I've no idea what they finally decided but it was pretty clear they were not meeting with success at that point.
- Status