Gunbroker is the example of what someone out there is willing to pay for an item. It is not a general value. I see stuff all the time that sits around for years because its XXXX and rare and worth all this money, yadada but to 99% of gun owners its a $100 rifle. Most of the time when someone loses a spouse/close family member their gun/coin/stamp collection is the last thing they care about, they might just want it gone. And while I personally would try to be fair with a widow, I wouldn't be offering gunbroker prices either. And like others have said, with milsurp and the like there are minute details that drastically swing the value of a firearm. Matching/non matching #'s, replacement parts (even small ones), condition of the bore, year of manufacture, etc. Things they might have picked up on that you may not have. Just playing devil's advocate.
What is Wrong With People?
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buck460XVR
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I too, while being fair, am not going to pay more that something's worth, just because she's a widow. Everyone here is assuming she doesn't have a clue of what she has.......nobody knows that for sure. Condition means a lot to a guns value also. Hard to put any value on any gun unless you see it and know it's condition. Again, no one here knows that. Bunch of guns outside in a shed? Don't know where the OP is from, but around here, outside in a shed means rust, mouse piss and stock warpage/splits from extreme humidity and temp changes. Odds are if, the longer they sit out there, the worst shape they will be in. If that's the case, better to be low balled while they are worth something than to let them deteriorate to nuttin'.
I didn't see the guns and I don't know exactly what anyone paid for them.....since I'm not a psychic, makes it impossible for me to determine if the old lady was ripped off or not.
Tommygunn
Member
It may be simplistic.....but it's true. It may not apply to guns of special value.....but try to sell a ubiquitous Ruger 1022 to a lgs, where the proprietor has to resell it. He's not going to give you full price as he has to sell it for a profit, and probably cannot hike up his sell price too much.
A rare Nimschke engraved Colt percussion revolver....that's been properly appraised.....that's a different critter.
Zaydok Allen
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In my experience, yes they are.
ScrapMetalSlug
Member
Stories like this are fairly common and are a good warning to those with large collections. Definetly something to think about as you get older if you do not have family with an interest in guns. Entire collections being sold off for pennies on the dollar..... Good motivation to pass some on down while living or have a detailed plan in your will. No one wants their lifetime collection liquidated like that. At a minimum, youd want surviving family fairly compensated, unless you truly dont care.
P5 Guy
Member
A few years ago I was in line at a gun show behind an elderly lady who had a couple of revolvers. I asked to see what she had and was told by her that she'd not sell to a person, only a dealer because she was worried the guns would fall into the 'wrong hands'. I ran into her again at a large local dealer's table and saw two nearly new S&W magnums both pinned and recessed 'N' frames. She sold them for $200 dollars. =0. They disappeared behind the table at the speed of light.
SSN Vet
Member
Sadly, this type of thing is pretty typical, and not just limited to guns.
We used to rent a house from a little old lady, who's husband was a machinist. After he died, some dirt-bag came in and bought his entire tool chest full of gage blocks, micrometers and other precision tools for $100.
Come judgement day, these losers will get their just deserts.
Information is power. And like any competent antique furniture dealer, knowing what's what and what the market prices are can make you a lot of money. But ripping off widows is lower than low, no matter what the items are.
My wife has asked me to make a complete inventory of my holdings, with an appropriate value/selling price.
We used to rent a house from a little old lady, who's husband was a machinist. After he died, some dirt-bag came in and bought his entire tool chest full of gage blocks, micrometers and other precision tools for $100.
Come judgement day, these losers will get their just deserts.
Information is power. And like any competent antique furniture dealer, knowing what's what and what the market prices are can make you a lot of money. But ripping off widows is lower than low, no matter what the items are.
My wife has asked me to make a complete inventory of my holdings, with an appropriate value/selling price.
Hokkmike
Member
I have, on occasion, having been offered the sale of an item that I thought was significantly under priced, advised the seller that while I was happy to pay the cost the he/she could likely get much more buy selling it to some one else after duly advertising it in a good venue. Most of the time they thank me for my honesty, decline, and let me buy it with a "I don't want to bother with all of that" or."you are a nice person and its OK,I want you to have it". I have even once or twice refused the purchase saying "I don't want to rip you off; I couldn't enjoy the gun if I did." Yes, I am a sap some times.
What steamrolls me the most is when I see someone who is down-and-out coming to a gun shop obviously needing cash and offering a shot gun worth 5 or 6 hundred dollars, asking $100 for it, and then walk out after accepting a $75 counter offer. I have seen the gun store owner park a big smile on his face after the seller had exited the store with "see the deal I got?" exclamation. Then, he (I am thinking of one particular seller at a gun store I frequent) puts it for sale on his shelf at a price higher than retail should be.
What steamrolls me the most is when I see someone who is down-and-out coming to a gun shop obviously needing cash and offering a shot gun worth 5 or 6 hundred dollars, asking $100 for it, and then walk out after accepting a $75 counter offer. I have seen the gun store owner park a big smile on his face after the seller had exited the store with "see the deal I got?" exclamation. Then, he (I am thinking of one particular seller at a gun store I frequent) puts it for sale on his shelf at a price higher than retail should be.
redneck2
Member
I have an acquaintance that bought a nice condition 1st generation Colt SAA from a widow for $600. She needed the money for medical expenses. Was bragging day's later that it's valued at $6,500-$8,000.
Some people are just scum.
Some people are just scum.
One way of looking at it is you should get a good deal. OTOH, ripping off a poor old widow
is kind of cheesy, even before you start bragging about it.
The widow could have handled it differently, gotten decent, competent appraisals for the guns.
Then bided her time, getting true market value for each one. It appears as if she was happier
moving them along and being done with it.
is kind of cheesy, even before you start bragging about it.
The widow could have handled it differently, gotten decent, competent appraisals for the guns.
Then bided her time, getting true market value for each one. It appears as if she was happier
moving them along and being done with it.
I've dealt with estate guns a few times.
About 10 years ago I attended an estate auction. I drive 25 miles one-way on a Saturday night to attend. The deceased was really into guns. There were several guns and tons of ammo and accessories. The son was there taking notes of what sold and for how much.
There weren't as many people there as I expected.
After about 10 lots going for really good prices, the son went up and talked to the auctioneer who then announced that the auction was over. Well, thanks for wasting my Saturday night.
Another time my brother-in-law told me about a well-to-do widow who had half a dozen guns for sale. I went over to talk to her about them and she presented me with a list of prices. She had paid a local gun shop for an appraisal. I don't know what planet this gunshop owner was from but the prices were ridiculous.
I asked her if the shop owner had offered her anywhere near these prices. She said no.
I told her that I wasn't interested in any of them at those prices and the best thing she could do was put them on consignment with that shop and give him 10%. She got huffy so I left.
Then last year a retired friend of mine called me and said a lady we used to work with son had died and he had a bunch of guns she wanted to sell.
So I called and talked with her. I told her I would be willing to come over and make her an offer on some of them and possibly even buy the lot but wouldn't be able to give her as much as she might get selling individually. Seems like there were 17 guns.
She said she had a list and knew that she wanted $7500 for them all. She told me what she had and they weren't worth $7500 but I didn't feel right offering less.
I told her that I don't think I would be interested but if she wanted me to help sell them I would be glad to help her.
Found out a few days later that a "friend of a friend" gave her $5k for the lot.
About 10 years ago I attended an estate auction. I drive 25 miles one-way on a Saturday night to attend. The deceased was really into guns. There were several guns and tons of ammo and accessories. The son was there taking notes of what sold and for how much.
There weren't as many people there as I expected.
After about 10 lots going for really good prices, the son went up and talked to the auctioneer who then announced that the auction was over. Well, thanks for wasting my Saturday night.
Another time my brother-in-law told me about a well-to-do widow who had half a dozen guns for sale. I went over to talk to her about them and she presented me with a list of prices. She had paid a local gun shop for an appraisal. I don't know what planet this gunshop owner was from but the prices were ridiculous.
I asked her if the shop owner had offered her anywhere near these prices. She said no.
I told her that I wasn't interested in any of them at those prices and the best thing she could do was put them on consignment with that shop and give him 10%. She got huffy so I left.
Then last year a retired friend of mine called me and said a lady we used to work with son had died and he had a bunch of guns she wanted to sell.
So I called and talked with her. I told her I would be willing to come over and make her an offer on some of them and possibly even buy the lot but wouldn't be able to give her as much as she might get selling individually. Seems like there were 17 guns.
She said she had a list and knew that she wanted $7500 for them all. She told me what she had and they weren't worth $7500 but I didn't feel right offering less.
I told her that I don't think I would be interested but if she wanted me to help sell them I would be glad to help her.
Found out a few days later that a "friend of a friend" gave her $5k for the lot.
lightman
Member
First of all, I have to commend you for your honesty. But, people will be people. Unfortunately, it seems like the Widow may have set herself up for this by not taking more interest it it.
I agree with Snipper66, a auction company would probably get the most for this collection. They have the reputation and contacts to draw a crowd. They can also run some of the guys other stuff through the auction.
My guns and reloading stuff are in my will. I also have a pact with my close shooting buddies to "take care of each other". It helps that we are friends and are comfortable with each others Wives and Families.
I agree with Snipper66, a auction company would probably get the most for this collection. They have the reputation and contacts to draw a crowd. They can also run some of the guys other stuff through the auction.
My guns and reloading stuff are in my will. I also have a pact with my close shooting buddies to "take care of each other". It helps that we are friends and are comfortable with each others Wives and Families.
John G C 1
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Seems we live in a society where lots of people think it is ok to screw someone over IF it involves money.
When money is involved, people think that screwing someone is just making a deal or being smart. Many people seem to exempt behavior from moral consideration if it involves making money.
How did we get to a situation where a "business deal" was exempt from moral consideration and those who make big business deals and F*** over someone are seen as successful or admirable? How many times have you heard "hey, it was business" or "buyer beware or it is all your own fault."
Screwing the vulnerable so the buyer can make more money is immoral.
Not everyone, especially the elderly, can make wise choices.
If you knowingly offer a crazy low price and screw over the old lady and you know you screwed her over and you would be angry if someone did it to someone in your family, then you are in the same situation as if you stole out of her handbag.
If someone says, Give me a hundred and it is yours, and you explain it is worth way more and then say you will gladly give a hundred and he person accepts, that is different. That is ok.
So, for the original poster, I would say tell her the price she wants is great and low and she might make more if she holds out, but you would pay the asking price and I think you are of clear conscience. Sometimes people want to move items as fast as possible and quick money is worth more than more money but with a hassle or lengthy time frame involved.
When money is involved, people think that screwing someone is just making a deal or being smart. Many people seem to exempt behavior from moral consideration if it involves making money.
How did we get to a situation where a "business deal" was exempt from moral consideration and those who make big business deals and F*** over someone are seen as successful or admirable? How many times have you heard "hey, it was business" or "buyer beware or it is all your own fault."
Screwing the vulnerable so the buyer can make more money is immoral.
Not everyone, especially the elderly, can make wise choices.
If you knowingly offer a crazy low price and screw over the old lady and you know you screwed her over and you would be angry if someone did it to someone in your family, then you are in the same situation as if you stole out of her handbag.
If someone says, Give me a hundred and it is yours, and you explain it is worth way more and then say you will gladly give a hundred and he person accepts, that is different. That is ok.
So, for the original poster, I would say tell her the price she wants is great and low and she might make more if she holds out, but you would pay the asking price and I think you are of clear conscience. Sometimes people want to move items as fast as possible and quick money is worth more than more money but with a hassle or lengthy time frame involved.
pharmer
Member
Recently a friend called and said his girlfriend had some guns (a couple dozen) and a ton (literally) of ammo to sell. Divorce spoils. I go over and make an offer on part of the hoard, she says she will think on it. Meanwhile friend brings in a shop and they make a $4K offer for everything. The ammo was worth more than that. I didn't have enough for a competing bid so they trucked it off. She was happy with $4K of "found" money. If'n I was still an 01 FFL, I might have shot a lower bid. Guns are a commodity and worth what someone will pay. "Pappy's pride" don't got anything to do with value. Joe
Officers'Wife
Member
No matter what it is, an item is only worth what you can get for it. That said there is a certain kind that when there is a death in the family they will flock to the heirs like buzzards taking advantage of the fact they are too distracted by grief to be thinking clearly. This is why I advise the ancients I deal with to find and advocate that will be able to keep close tabs on the family members in the event of their deaths. Preferably someone that tends to value their friendship is perfectly able to be a complete witch when these scum come knocking on the door to commit their oh-so-legal theft. Sometimes all that's needed is to take the example of my grandfather when a city people "investment expert" came to sell him a dream and a balloon mortgage - Let him drink the last of the coffee then tell him to get his wheeler dealer butt the heck out of your soybeans. (quote edited to fit within the boundaries of Sister Beatrice's sensitivities.)
( My name is Selena and I am a ranter. )
( My name is Selena and I am a ranter. )
That was the USP of Interarms - they were willing to buy everything the vendor country was selling, not just cherrypicked the good stuff and left them with the dross like lesser surplus traders.
My grandmother let all her husband's machine tools go to a dealer for a small sum - she just wanted them gone. I could do with them now - forty years later.
Cannibul
Member
A few years back I was offered a very nice S&W 29 8 3/8" nickel plate, NIB Marlin 60, and a inexpensive .22 lr SA revolver. I had told the person they could get good money at the upcoming gun show, but they needed money then. I had $350 in my pocket and told them that's all I had. I told them it was less than half what the guns were worth. They did not care, then desperately needed the money.
I told them to consider the $350 as a loan and the firearms as collateral. I tried several times over the next few months to sell the guns back to them. They refused to buy them back. They told me I helped them out at a time they needed help and that the firearms were mine. I offered to just give them back the firearms. They refused.
I still feel bad that I wasn't able to give them more money for the firearms.
I told them to consider the $350 as a loan and the firearms as collateral. I tried several times over the next few months to sell the guns back to them. They refused to buy them back. They told me I helped them out at a time they needed help and that the firearms were mine. I offered to just give them back the firearms. They refused.
I still feel bad that I wasn't able to give them more money for the firearms.
jeff-10
Member
It is essentially a fire sale and she is getting fire sale prices. She isn't looking to do all the work necessary or take the time needed for an online sale.
lightman
Member
This says a lot about your character and about you as a person.
I think that you essentially missed the point of this post and made up some excuse for the people that took advantage of the old woman that lost her husband and son
I agree with the OP, his friends did take advantage of that woman... In the same situation, and I'm serious about this, I would have asked one or two questions to determine if she votes for anti-2A politicians? If the answers are good, i.e. Pro-2A, I would offer to help her catalog her collection and get it sold at fair prices. I would not take any money for myself, only a good deal on the gun I wanted from her collection, which I would pay for. If she gave me the wrong answer, i.e. consistently votes for anti-2A politicians, I would happily take her to the cleaners, then sleep soundly with a clean conscience knowing that there is payback for all the heartache she caused me and my fellow patriots...
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