What is Wrong With People?

Status
Not open for further replies.
On that point, let me say, that my Mom was suckered out of many guns that my granddad had collected over the years. In fact, she sold all the good ones and I was left with the least valuable of all the rifles. Yes, they are valuable to me because they belonged to my grandpa. But the real monetarily valuable guns were snatched up by ******** before I had a chance to say anything about it. Basically my mom does not like guns, and she wanted to get rid of them. I had expressed no interest in these guns before hand, and that is on me. But now I know she feels guilty about selling them.

She was taken advantage of. Oh well, in the end it's only material stuff.
 
...a pawn shop that doesn't know what they have...

...doesn't exist.

At least not for very long. They know they're selling their guns for a good price. That's how the pawn business works. If you ever think you're getting one up on a pawn broker, pinch yourself, because you're suffering from delusions of grandeur.:rofl:

ETA: Oh, and I'm being buried with my guns.:evil:
 
I would have given her the sites of a few gun auctioneers.
They might not be perfect,but they will actually auction off the lot AND sometimes the prices go even higher for guns that are needed to finish a collection.
 
Having had this experience with a multitude of objects (not guns) that were left after parents passed I have to say it is better to be done with it than try to research and find buyers willing to pay top dollar which is a fantasy in this age of eBay. If you really care about your heirs you will catalog and assign values to your collection and provide contact information to professionals willing to sell said collections. Otherwise buyer beware and all that rot.
 
I typically look at three places when selling a gun. My legs for the new and used price, gun broker asking price (used) and then armslist. I usually have an idea what something is worth, those places just let me know if I am close or if I am way off. Armslist seems to be representative of a particular area. I usually scan armslist regularly, so I have a pretty good idea of how long some items have been there. If they have been there awhile I usually take that as a sign of being overpriced.
Anyway, back to the topic, I usually talk to people about the asking price and then determine whether I believe it has the same value. Unfortunately, when it comes to an older lady selling off a deceased husband's collection, I would have a very hard time negotiating with her. I just couldn't do it, unless I thought she was satisfied.
 
Is there some sort of large "Blue Book" for most used guns, found online? I've only found a "stock market" or such for SKS, AK, Mosins and several other types.

About seven years ago in (now closed) Borders, or Barnes And Noble Books, a thick book had values for some used milsurps, but as to how both buyer/seller people agree on what the condition is might be the issue.
What struck me is that the reported book values for several types of used milsurps seemed a good bit higher than what anybody wanted to pay Me for a (i.e.) Yugo Mauser etc in very good condition.

OP/Slowr1der: If any of those guys feel guilty, they could always go back to her with a extra few hundred dollars cash, and tell her that they had underestimated some values,
But that would require them to have some true character. Seems like a contradiction after what they got away with when they first 'negotiated' with her.

If you guys have a safe deposit box in First TN Bank etc, why not write down the approx. market values of what you have on a sheet of paper in a large sandwich bag etc (easy to spot), and/or who should inherit them, with your signature if not listed in an old will?
 
Last edited:
When my dad died back in January of 1994, he left a "working collection" of guns. He wasn't a collector per se, he was more like me...he was an accumulator. I don't give a damn about collecting guns. I am a shooter and along over the years I have accumulated guns I shoot. Dad was the same way, so when he died, he had 26 guns. They were all working/hunting/defense guns. Some were "collectible" based on what they were, but none of them were pristine-collector-grade-make-a-gun-nut-spooge types. BUT...they had value to me as shooters and a couple did have sentimental value like the Model 19 Smith snubby he carried as a detective with the sheriff''s department, or the Model 92 Winchester 44WCF that had once belonged to my great grandfather, and the companion Colt SAA in 44WCF, and the Colt Commander Dad carried in Korea and Vietnam Republic of. BUT...none of them were getting sold as far as I was concerned.

My older brother was an ******* and had a drug and gambling problem his whole life and saw dollar signs and I knew that if I didn't do something proactively...those guns would be gone and in the hands of pawn shops or dope dealers in a matter of hours. He was also a prohibited possessor because he caught a dishonorable from the Army and never took the steps to get it changed when he was eligible to do so. I also have an older sister who is a co-dependent head case most of the time, and all three of us were in the will. So, I went to Dad's house...loaded up all the guns and took them to my house.

BUT...being the only one who was emotionally functional after Dad passed I took charge of the situation. I told them both that I was keeping the guns and I would cut them each a check for a third of the value before the insurance policies paid off, and I was already on Dad's checking account and that I would cut them out each a third of that. I also let them both know that it was not an offer that was open to negotiation, it was how it was going to be. I was the youngest, but Dad named me as executor.

Yes, I am an *******, but I am at least an honest one. I had my friend who is the editor of a nationally published gun magazine who also lived in the area come over and we hashed out the dollar value of the guns. This was in 94, so there was no interwebz auction sites...so we used experience, Shotgun News, Fjestad's Blue Book, and "What would you be willing to pay if it was you?" guidelines. We came up with the amount, I cut a third to each of them of what was in the checking account, then used the remaining third that was mine and paid them for the guns. I was more than fair because I went with a "Plus 10%" on the guns, and used "VERY GOOD" condition as the price point, even though the guns were well worn and used. Mechanically perfect, but they all had holster wear, field wear...like honest working guns.

My brother didn't argue...he went right to the bank, cashed both checks and got high as a kite for 2 months and 4 days until he put the barrel of a 22 rifle in his mouth and turned his brain into gray matter soup after his last hot shot of heroin. When I cleaned out the mobile home my dad had bought him to live in I found a suicide note, six dollars in change, and dozens of empty "forty pop" H-Balloons. Just say NO to drugs kids. Dumbass.

If the dumbass would have waited two more days...the insurance policies paid off and he would have had a smooth 40 grand to party on for a few more months before he blew a hole in the soft pallet of his mouth.

Anyway...I used my (now half) of the insurance money to buy out my sister's half of Dad's house in Prescott and I got in touch with some old hunting and shooting buddies of Dad's and let them pick through the guns I wasn't keeping. These were life-long friends of Dad's, many were other deputies he worked with, and a couple of military buddies, so I felt good about giving them some of his guns. Over the years as some of them passed, I got a few of them back.

I wanted Dad's guns to be used by guy's who would appreciate them. I came out on top. I got to keep the guns I wanted, and got the house I grew up in and no longer had to worry about getting "that phone call" on night shift that someone had my brother cuffed up on the side of the road dropping MY name and asking me what I wanted them to do with him...(I always said, Take his ass to jail to detox).

I don't know why I just shared that. Hell, it was in April of 1994...I haven't even thought about my brother in a LONG time. BUT...the point is, the guns are still alive.

My daughter gets all my guns...she's already told me that, and she's on the Family NFA trust...so she gets those too. I doubt she will sell any of them because she's more rabid about guns that I am.
 
My brother has asked me to take charge of his sizeable collection after he is gone, but he's only in his mid-60's and in good health, so that won't be for a while. He wants me to keep what I want...and I will keep a few as mementos to him (as well as family heirlooms that my dad handed over to him) but I'd just as soon sell most of the stuff and give the proceeds to his wife (he has no kids.) I'd be happy to do this only because I wouldn't want his wife to be taken advantage of, as in the OP's scenario.

That's something for most people to think about if they're over the age of 40 and into guns. Don't let your poor wife have to deal with the vultures after you're gone. I don't think it's ethical to take advantage of an elderly person, but I also think that the free market system has self-interest built into it, and that isn't a bad thing. If a person says to a low income widow: "I'll give you $200 for that Browning Hi Power" well...I couldn't do it myself, but more than the buyers' fault it's the fault of the deceased guy who didn't leave a list of values or appraisal for his wife.

But if the vultures say, "That Browning Hi Power is only worth $200," that's just a flat out lie and it's not improper (in my opinion) to tell the woman so, even if the vultures are present and negotiating with her. I HATE getting involved in other people's transactions and almost never do it, but I'd do it in that case.

OTOH, I hate it if someone wants to sell you something, and you say "Sure, what do you want for it?" And their response is "I don't know...what's it worth?" IF you're selling something, put a price on it.
 
Another option is to take the guns to a respected gun shop, with a knowledgeable owner to set prices, and put them on consignment. There will be a split, agreed upon up front, on the sales, the seller will probably get the most money that way, without doing all the leg work, or having to deal with buyers.
 
Yes, I am an *******.....

I don't have that opinion of you. Sometimes siblings, despite their history with us, have to be kept from throwing the family estate away. I've been lucky to have nice and responsible brothers and sisters. You didn't have an easy job to do. I'm sure it wasn't easy losing your brother, either. Glad your daughter likes guns and is carrying on a family tradition. That's an even better thing to pass on to kids than the guns themselves. ;)
 
I'm not going to comment on the friend's buddies and all of that. That's their business between them and the seller and all.

As for some of the other things, remember, to the guys at the shop, it's just business and just stuff. People come in and out with stuff to buy and sell all of the time. If you're lucky and they're feeling cash rich, you *might* get 60% of the expected retail sale price. They're looking to make money on the deal, it keeps the lights on and pays the staff. For people disposing of large collections, or who may not be into guns, this is as much about convenience and having cash NOW, plus disposing of the stuff. You're going to be doing a lot of leg-work and waiting a long-time to get top retail.

I'll also offer a thought on the idea of keeping a list with the items and market value listed. You'll have to work to keep this up to date! In just the last 12 years or so I've been actively buying, selling and trading handguns, common S&W service revolvers have gone from NIB Model 15s for $425 to $500 for a nice, but used one. N-frames could be had for $500, less for common ones, and now you can easily get $600-650 for any run of the mill N-frame. Plus, who's to say in 20 years guys who are my age will be willing to pay today's prices for some "old wheelguns" from an estate?

(Yes, 15-20 years from now I plan on being able to snag bunches of nice S&Ws, Colts and Winchesters until it's my turn to pass them on. ;) )
 
I seen the same thing today at a local gun show. My buddy tried selling a rifle that dealers and other non dealers wanted $350-450 and his is in about 95% good condition and guys were telling him his $250 was too high its only worth $125. I walked by a table that had a lot of old holsters, mag pouches, etc and noticed a nylon double mag pouch for a duty belt and I am in need of a new one so I asked the gentleman if he minded checking the fit with his m&p mag and it fit. He says give me $10 for it and its yours. It was a bianchi or safariland and that stuffs not cheap. I told him let me hit an ATM and I would be back but forgot.

Another table had holsters and there was a good if not brand new safariland duty holster and she wanted $20 for it. sometimes people don't know what they have and just price accordingly. Seeing how the mag pouch is about $40-50 normally I would have offered him $20-25 for it and the duty holster if it fit my gun maybe $50 as its over $125. Some people just have no integrity when it comes to screwing people over and its just wrong!
 
But the real monetarily valuable guns were snatched up by ******** before I had a chance to say anything about it. Basically my mom does not like guns, and she wanted to get rid of them.

So who do you feel is the, as you eloquently put it, *******? The one that bought them from the one that didn't want them or the one that didn't want them?
 
The word that sums up the problem is integrity and the lack of it in today's self centered culture. Doing the proper thing or get the screaming deal ??:scrutiny: I have always followed the old saw of: Always treat others as you want them to treat you. This has worked out well for me all these years. And yes I HAVE offered more than what someone has wanted for a firearm in the past (real value to them) but still had them say-- I just want it to go to someone that will enjoy it as much as I did.:thumbup: Or once that the woman said she was going to call her EX husband and tell him that she just sold me his his Savage 24 she won in the divorce for enough money to buy a steak dinner ($20) just to T him off.:what:
 
Not that anyone here needs to be reminded, but there are lots of low life people everywhere. Why should gun buyers be expected to be any better a class of people than car mechanics, roofers, or any number of individuals who might routinely take advantage of ignorant people and grossly under price something being sold or overprice work to be done? For many people its just the way they do business. I met a roofer that gave me a quote that was ridiculous, and I told him so. I then told him I doubt he would ever get a home roofing job because he was literally twice as high as some of his competitors. He smirked and said "that's only because you got several bids; I make my living from people who only get one bid and accept it" or similar words at the time. My guess is that when I die my wife or one of my kids will sell my small number of handguns and one shotgun for pennies on the dollar of their worth just to get them out of my wife's home. Only one of my guns has any sentimental value to me, a S&W Model 19, nickel, 4 inch barrel and that one my wife knows goes to the one son who would appreciate owning it. I keep a list in my safe, however, showing the new purchase price of every one of my guns so that whoever sells them has at least some idea of their value.
 
Buck460XVR wrote:
Ever have something appraised? The appraiser usually asks if you want an insurance appraisal or if the item is being appraised to settle an estate.

The standard for an appraisal is generally "fair market value" and while there are sometimes special procedures or required language that must be included in an appraisal, an appraiser should generally not be asking for the purpose of the appraisal and it can be a violation of the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP) to do so..
 
Tommygunn wrote:
  • Q: How much is this gun worth?
  • A: It's worth what money you can get for it.

Well, that's a rather simplistic way of saying that "fair market value" is the price at which something would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, neither operating under compulsion and with both in full possession of all relevant information.

I am reminded of Genesis 14:21-24, where Abraham, returning from a battle known as the "Slaughter of the Kings" is offered the spoil of the battle by the King of Sodom, to which Abraham replies, "I will not take even a thread ... otherwise you will say, 'I made Abraham rich.'"
 
At gun shows, most guys usually feel that you should give Them a huge discount (below market value), but they would not Consider giving you even a 10% discount.
To be specific, they offer $250 for a $425 all-matching Spanish FR8 in exc. condition.

"It's all about me." Comical in a way, as if such an attitude would Really improve their lives. They would probably just buy filet mignon instead of a t-bone steak.
Guys see you carrying a gun on a sling and their miserly 'offer' shows that they want You to sell wholesale, only so that they can flip for a profit, instead of keeping/appreciating it for what it is.
 
Last edited:
What the buddies did that took advantage of a grieving widow/mother is flat out wrong, hopefully karma will catch up to them in time. A real problem is, they now know where she lives and I wouldn't be surprised that they let the word slip to some other unsavory sorts. Not to mention that kind of treasure trove is attractive not to just low baller scum but to outright thieves who might hurt her physically rather than just financially. Some type of auction sounds like it'd serve this woman best.
 
To answer the question in the title, people tend to think of themselves as smarter and more deserving than anyone else. It stems from that sad episode with Eve, the apple and the snake.

The best payers are those who desire the items for their own use. A collector who collects those items, or a person looking for just that item for some reason. The only problem is locating that exact person and dealing with them.

One problem is excessive expectations. I once talked with a very nice widow who mentioned her late husband had passed on, leaving an 'old gun'. She knew it was an 'old gun' and thought it might be worth a good amount. Turned out, it was an RG single action revolver from the 1960s; was out of time (I think they came that way) and was badly rusted on one side. It wasn't worth as much as she hoped.

Dealers buy guns with the idea to resell them and make a living. So, either pawn shops, local gun shops or gun show vendors all have limits for how much they can (will?) pay. No one can pay $1000.00 for a doo-dad (regardless of the type of doo-dad) and make a profit selling it for $960.00 dollars. When a person or business sells an item (used car, gun, antique, dog) they have to recoup their investment (how much was paid), the cost of storing the item, the cost of travel to purchase and sell the item, the overhead of the store or gun show table, the salary of workers and then have enough to make it worth while doing all that.

(By the way, all those who feel a dealer should only make X% profit rather than XX% profit simply isn't considering anyone but themselves. By what authority does anyone determine how much value another places on his work? If you don't want to pay it, don't pay it. But getting all riled up and self-righteous is a pain in the [fill in the blank].)

The good part of selling an estate to a dealer is one gets funds more or less instantly. It is probably not as much as might be made other ways, it is quick.

Auction houses can make more per item, but one must wait until the organization is ready to 'hold' the auction. Additionally, one must share a certain amount of the proceeds with the auction house for their expenses - advertising, salaries and such as mentioned above.

Probably the greatest amount of funds can be had by personally selling the items individually. This takes the greatest time to accomplish. Probably the best way to get the widest audience is the internet auction houses, but those require certain fees and some expertise which is not always inherent in a survivor (of who owned the items).

And I've seen relatives who were bigger cheats and cheapskates than any dealers or strangers.
 
Maybe the best solution is to sell off as many guns as you can do without grief while you are still alive. I never had a big collection, but I have sold off almost all that I am willing to part with. Until I decide to stop going to the range I will always want at least two 22LR target pistols, at least two guns for home defense and at least two concealed carry guns (so that even if one needs some work I will never be left unarmed). Add to that my one and only sentimental gun, and I could be happy with just seven handguns. Then even if my widow sells them off at far below their real value we are not talking about a large amount of money either way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top