What keeps criminals from automatic weapons?

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As was said, they're not light weight or very concealable.

How many burglaries or other common crimes are done with rifles, or carbines? Not many. Mostly just killings are done with them. Criminals want in and out, with as much ease as possible.
 
Yeah, I don't buy the "because they're prohibited and our laws are so strict" line. The criminals don't use machine guns because they don't need to. There's no value in it. Most criminals aren't even interested in shooting anything/anyone. The gun is a tool of intimidation. A semi-auto will do the job just as well as a full-auto, and in most cases, better.

Let's not pretend that the criminals are following, or deterred in any way by, THE LAW. Nor just kept from unleashing grave full-auto mayhem on the good people of society because machine guns are difficult to obtain or hard to make.
 
The vast majority of gun crimes involve handguns. Not because handguns are 'evil', powerful or easy to hit with, (thay are not compaired to long guns) but because they can be concealed. Most real criminals want to get away eith their crimes and they need a weapon that they can stash in their shorts.
 
Sam1911, I agree completely. Can we take your observation further and say that since clearly there is little to no criminal advantage to a full-auto over a semi, that we just just do away with the silly restrictions on machine guns altogether?
 
Laws prohibiting the sales and posession of machine guns really do work, but they work because they were put in place in 1934 when portable full-auto technology was in its infancy and very few people could afford a Thompson sub-machinegun.
 
JagerRanger said:
I think Sam1911 nailed it: need. The gang bangers don't need EBRs in their daily tasks.
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What about modded KG99s? Though I think ease in modding the was due to open bolt and some other features such as sear wear that could make it full auto.
 
Serious bad guys like terrorists, mafia, and the cartels will have them. But your common Crip trash ain't got the money or the desire. Most FA's are also rifles, which aren't popular for people who want to keep themselves hidden and move quickly in urban environments.
 
Let's ponder the definition of "criminal".
A career criminal can't A)pass all of the background checks and "smell test" by a class III dealer to go through the process of legally acquiring a full auto weapon B)hold a highly paying job in mainstream society to afford one either legally or otherwise. Full auto guns are rare and expensive.
If you've ever heard of a book called "Freakanomics" (Leavit IIRC), there's a chapter on why drug dealers still live with their moms. I think you can find him talking about it on Youtube if you don't want to read the whole book. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UGC2nLnaes
 
Owen Sparks said:
Laws prohibiting the sales and posession of machine guns really do work, but they work because they were put in place in 1934 when portable full-auto technology was in its infancy and very few people could afford a Thompson sub-machinegun.
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I am honestly quite happy with the original level of control set forth by the 1934 NFA. Let's face it: a machine gun can mow down large numbers of tightly-packed people in seconds before anyone can react. These things NEED to be controlled. Not prohibited, but controlled.

For a criminal, a gun is just a tool. Something to aid them in their crimes. It's the result of their crimes they care about, not the details of the tool. Because of this, pretty much nobody with criminal intent is going to put any real work into their firearm. It's something to be used and discarded, nothing more.
 
I am honestly quite happy with the original level of control set forth by the 1934 NFA. Let's face it: a machine gun can mow down large numbers of tightly-packed people in seconds before anyone can react. These things NEED to be controlled. Not prohibited, but controlled.
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As any decent shooter could tell you, you could "mow down" (if by that you mean actually KILL) more people, faster, with rapid aimed semi-auto fire than you could with a full-auto weapon.

If you begin to study and understand how automatic fire is used -- what it is good for -- you'll see that it has nothing to do with rapidity of killing individual targtets.

The argument that they need to be "controlled" more than their semi-auto cousins is utterly inane and specious and NOT the sort of thing we need to be repeating.
 
If criminals wanted to (and they do) smuggle full autos into the US to use there would be little to stop them. I think that Sam has it said well that they are lazy by nature and the time frame and effort to think this out ahead is not worth the effort 99.9% of the time. The only real thing that they are good for is intimidation and an easy to get repro in semi auto is just as good for that. So as long as the trigger is not pulled the victim will never know if it is not full auto.
Really they do have no regard for the laws and will get into just as much trouble anyway with ANY firearm so what is the difference when caught anyway. Hand guns are more concealable and that is the big answer as I understand it.:scrutiny:
 
My thoughts on the OPs question. I'll probably get flamed for this but full auto isn't all it's cracked up to be. They are good to fire a lot of rounds to keep peoples heads down but unless you are well trained with one ,15 yards is about its range of use.Don't believe what you see on TV and the movies.
Converting to full-auto isn't as easy as people think.You mention Mexico,did you know that Venezuela has a Kalashnikov factory and sells arms to anyone with the money? You can buy a full-auto AK-47 on the open arms market cheaper than you can buy a semi-auto from a US gun dealer .

Back in the 30's there were Thompson s, Browning BAR's and Reisings galore. Gun companies were just about giving them away but most people didn't have a use for them and didn't want them. They were sold cheaply or just given to police departments across the country. Most of the criminals in the 30's got their full-auto weapons by stealing them out of small police departments that were unmanned or undermanned.

Today most auto weapons are stolen from the military or Federal LE agencies. You would be surprised how much stuff they lose that you never hear about.
Armored vehicles? The ones taken are almost always taken by someone that has experience driving one. Most people wouldn't have a clue to start one let alone drive one.The people who I personally know who own armored vehicles are very responsible people and have even loaned them to law enforcement agencies on occasion for emergencies.

another poster wrote about the original Interdynamics open bolt KG-99 and KG-9 pistols.Only about 1200 of them ever hit the market and about half were legally converted before the 1986 full-auto ban. Less than 600 out there now and most are owned by collectors.

I do believe that if you own any firearm you should be responsible in safely securing it in your home. Unfortunately in todays economic upset people are losing their possessions to criminals who steal anything with some value and small enough to conceal and carry away.
Be a responsible firearms owner! PLEASE!
 
CoRoMo

Quote:
If criminals don't follow laws, then what's stopping them?

Nothing. If they know how to convert a semi-auto into a machine gun, they'll do it and nothing would stop them.

The thing is, the vast majority of criminals are not smart enough to know how to convert a semi-auto into a machine gun, and legal machine guns are locked up securely enough that they are not going to be easily acquired by thieves.
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Yup. In these days of the Interweb, any person who can read and has opposable thumbs can convert most semis. The thing is...they gotta be able to read first.
 
I suspect that most big city gangs own AK-47s. They would have Mini-14s or AR-15s, except the AKs are cheaper and have the reputation. They have them, but they don't use them for ordinary stuff. They are for the gang version of SHTF, which is a gang war.

This leads to a certain amount of confusion and intentional misleading statements by police. They raid a house and take away a couple of Hi-Points and an AK, and all they call about is "an assault rifle."
 
The term "AK" in the gang world vocabulary isn't what you think. AK is the slang term that refers to any firearm(most likely not a AK) that a gang-banger has. It could be a single shot .22 rifle with the stock cut down, but he calls it his AK.
Before that they called everything their "Uzi" when the Uzi was the popular gun on the big screen.
 
As any decent shooter could tell you, you could "mow down" (if by that you mean actually KILL) more people, faster, with rapid aimed semi-auto fire than you could with a full-auto weapon.

If you begin to study and understand how automatic fire is used -- what it is good for -- you'll see that it has nothing to do with rapidity of killing individual targtets.

The argument that they need to be "controlled" more than their semi-auto cousins is utterly inane and specious and NOT the sort of thing we need to be repeating.
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Then why don't we use semiautomatic weapons for suppressive fire?
 
Criminal gangs in the US were all waiting for our Admin. to allow the dreaded M-1 Carbines to be imported from Korea. This was the type of excuse used by the O Admin to block their entry, from what I remember.

Now that the dreaded carbines won't be imported, our criminals won't have any decent variety of weapons to choose from. The gangs in LA wanted their ARs to be configured for drive-by bayonetings, to escalate their "body count" (pardon the phrase) but some wonderful politicians prevented the many such events which would have happened.;)
 
"Machine guns" as I've come to learn in my career in the Army are only practical in a few instances - the most important being to lay down sustained suppressive fire so your tactical elements can maneuver.

"Mowing down" people is a fallacy. With most fully auto weapons, keeping shots on target is difficult, ammo is used very quickly, and the barrels get hot and less accurate very fast.

A "machine gun" is no more dangerous, and arguably LESS dangerous in the hands of someone that would use it on full auto. Why?

1. Poor aim, and spray and pray tactics.
2. Burning through piles of ammo quickly without hitting any targets.
3. Making the gun un-usable due to the heat of the barrel. There's a Youtube video where an AK47 literally lights the wood forearm on fire after a few drums of full auto. Yes, full auto guns get VERY hot very fast.

Contrast that with someone that takes well aimed shots in semi-auto; that is MUCH deadlier. Shots are more lethal. Ammo is conserved. Weapon usable indefinately.
 
I will dare suggest that machineguns are less used in crime in the US because:
(a) use of a machinegun in a federal crime is an automatic 20-30 year sentence enhancement.
(b) use of a machinegun in any crime will get the attention of federal investigators.
You know, turn a gas station robbery into a federal case, use a machinegun.....hmmm, bad idea.

Anyone who thinks American criminals cannot get machineguns if they want them just does not know what's out there on the black market. There is a tremendous cost to using a machinegun in a crime, and not that much benefit, unless you are as suicidal as that North Hollywood bank robbery couple.
 
Most of the criminals in the 30's got their full-auto weapons by stealing them out of small police departments that were unmanned or undermanned.
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John Dillinger stole Thompsons from Illinois police stations.
Bonnie and Clyde got BARs from National Guard Armories.
Ma Barkers gang got stolen Army Thompsons from fences.
Going back to the 1920s, Al Capone simply offered a bounty of $3000 for Thompsons, no questions asked, when the factory price was $200. $2800 profit is a lot of temptation.
 
a good friend of mine told me about 8 terrorist who drove up to a diplomatic convoy and sprayed full all over the front of the embassy, they hit everything in sight except what they where shooting at, do a little math right quick....2000 round per minut from a 32 round magazine with less than 1%effectivness,.....personaly, i wish more criminal had full autos, because i'd feel safer if the where trying to shoot at me with those numbers,
ps. two body guards with semi auto pistols killed 6 of them.
 
i've personaly got to fire, and play with a lot of full autos, mac 10/11, mp 40's, thompsons, uzi's etc,............i'll take my xdm 45 with a thirteen round mag, or my 40S&W m&p with 15 rounds anyday over a full auto..........so i say, if you can afford a mg, and want to spray bullets like it's going out of style, what's the problem
 
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