What should a non-gun owner know about guns?
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redneckrepairs
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I will also suggest the Eddy Eagle program , but not for the same reasons lol . My reasoning is that anyone who confronts a firearm without some basic know how had best leave it alone and find someone who can safely handle it , or disarm it . Male , Female , Young , or Old , If you are not familiar with it then dont screw with it , find someone who is .
CNYCacher
Member
Attack common misconceptions first
Most people think that a gun can go off if dropped or jostled. That is a huge and common misconception. I knew a guy who said "You have NO RIGHT to carry a concealed gun in my presence without my consent. You are putting me in danger!" Pressing the matter revealed that this man was scared of the scenario of the gun falling from the holster and then going off when it hit the ground, possibly hitting him. The context was hiking with mixed company.
Most people think that a gun can go off if dropped or jostled. That is a huge and common misconception. I knew a guy who said "You have NO RIGHT to carry a concealed gun in my presence without my consent. You are putting me in danger!" Pressing the matter revealed that this man was scared of the scenario of the gun falling from the holster and then going off when it hit the ground, possibly hitting him. The context was hiking with mixed company.
Eleven Mike
Member
Is that folksy, old-time speak or a pop-culture reference? I'm not sure what it means, but somehow it insults my manly pride.
Anyway, would it help to ease the hard feelings if I taught you how to shoot, ma'am?
Four rules only.
I advise not to provide any tips or instructions or guidelines to do with assessing any status or quality of the firearm, where such assessment relies on the handling of the firearm. There is room for misadventure should the firearm not be of a standard configuration, or it is otherwise altered in appearance or function such that it differs from the mechanics or operation of the gun being described in the book. It may even have a fault or a 'feature' introduced by the owner, which renders it unsafe to be handled under the assumption that it is a stock weapon.
I am also writing guidelines such as what PAX wants, but mine are geared towards hospital staff handling armed patients in South Africa.
My advice is not to unload, make safe or inspect somebody else's gun when it is not necessary to do so (the necessity being much diminished by the fact that said handling is not going to take place in a proper environment, and that said handling is not going to be done by somebody like a gunsmith who can at least take precautions when handling what is essentially an unknown and unique firearm).
I advise not to provide any tips or instructions or guidelines to do with assessing any status or quality of the firearm, where such assessment relies on the handling of the firearm. There is room for misadventure should the firearm not be of a standard configuration, or it is otherwise altered in appearance or function such that it differs from the mechanics or operation of the gun being described in the book. It may even have a fault or a 'feature' introduced by the owner, which renders it unsafe to be handled under the assumption that it is a stock weapon.
I am also writing guidelines such as what PAX wants, but mine are geared towards hospital staff handling armed patients in South Africa.
My advice is not to unload, make safe or inspect somebody else's gun when it is not necessary to do so (the necessity being much diminished by the fact that said handling is not going to take place in a proper environment, and that said handling is not going to be done by somebody like a gunsmith who can at least take precautions when handling what is essentially an unknown and unique firearm).
@ PAX
Here is the thread where I discussed it:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219176
Here is the thread where I discussed it:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219176
White Horseradish
Member
I would definitely not recommend a random person clear a gun. First, a non-gunnie finding a gun will be nervous and is pretty much guaranteed to screw up. Second, a gun may be unsafe to handle for multiple reasons, it can be rusted, improperly altered, or just broken. Third, a gun laying about in an unexpected place may be evidence. Say, a thief dropped it on the way from the owner's apartment. Wouldn't want to mess up the prints.
Gun rules for non-gunners should go something like this:
1. A gun will not fire unless touched
2. Bullets come out of the round hole on the end. Watch where you point it.
3. ...
Gun rules for non-gunners should go something like this:
1. A gun will not fire unless touched
2. Bullets come out of the round hole on the end. Watch where you point it.
3. ...
qlajlu
Member
Thank you
Pax, thank you for your explanation. Anyone can look at your Web site and see that it is a labor of love and with you asking for additional input it shows just how dedicated you are. Would that more people were as thorough as you.
Odd Job, your instructions (posted on TFL) are very clear, well thought out, to the point, and quite thorough for that particular environment. I don't think that Pax should be quite as lengthy in her instructions though, because the simpler the instructions the easier to be remembered. Pax's instructions will need to address a myriad of scenarios.
Therein lies the complexity of the problem; it must be simple and yet all inclusive. It must also buck the current fear fed to the public by the Anti's rhetoric.
Pax, thank you for your explanation. Anyone can look at your Web site and see that it is a labor of love and with you asking for additional input it shows just how dedicated you are. Would that more people were as thorough as you.
Odd Job, your instructions (posted on TFL) are very clear, well thought out, to the point, and quite thorough for that particular environment. I don't think that Pax should be quite as lengthy in her instructions though, because the simpler the instructions the easier to be remembered. Pax's instructions will need to address a myriad of scenarios.
Therein lies the complexity of the problem; it must be simple and yet all inclusive. It must also buck the current fear fed to the public by the Anti's rhetoric.
The first things I try to get across:
1. Guns are not scary. They are inanimate objects and if you aren't a dumbass, you're 99.9999999% safe.
2. Guns are fun. Once you get past scary, they make a big boom and you make a hole in the target (or blow up the water bottle or ding the steel, even better) and it's a game of skill.
3. The stereotypes aren't true (or, in some cases they are true, but they aren't universal). You don't have to be a criminal nor do you have to live in constant fear, you don't have to hunt and don't even have to think about, you don't need a deep desire to join The Unit any time soon nor even pretend to and the dealer doesn't even ask about your party affiliation. Voted for Clinton? Voted for Nader? They still want your money!
1. Guns are not scary. They are inanimate objects and if you aren't a dumbass, you're 99.9999999% safe.
2. Guns are fun. Once you get past scary, they make a big boom and you make a hole in the target (or blow up the water bottle or ding the steel, even better) and it's a game of skill.
3. The stereotypes aren't true (or, in some cases they are true, but they aren't universal). You don't have to be a criminal nor do you have to live in constant fear, you don't have to hunt and don't even have to think about, you don't need a deep desire to join The Unit any time soon nor even pretend to and the dealer doesn't even ask about your party affiliation. Voted for Clinton? Voted for Nader? They still want your money!
crebralfix
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Take the NRA Gun Safety course. It does not contain any political content and no shooting is involved. They present the rules of gun safety and use real firearms with dummy ammunition. At the end of the course, you will be able to safely handle and unload any firearm.
sfhogman
Member
Many moms I meet seem to be concerned about what to do with a found gun.
Therefore, I explain the four rules, and how to check/unload a found gun. If they believe they would have trouble doing this under what are for them stressful circumstances, I tell them to remove the gun to a safe place, observing the four rules, until someone can make the gun safe for them. Further instruction can come later. I understand this is a response to a specific situation, but the question does come up often.
Jeff
Therefore, I explain the four rules, and how to check/unload a found gun. If they believe they would have trouble doing this under what are for them stressful circumstances, I tell them to remove the gun to a safe place, observing the four rules, until someone can make the gun safe for them. Further instruction can come later. I understand this is a response to a specific situation, but the question does come up often.
Jeff
Don't put your finger on the trigger. Every body does until they LEARN not to.
Don't treat it like a cracked egg that will get you dirty. Pick it up strongly... Not in a distasteful , two fingered tentative way.
Don't point it at people. This includes looking down the barrel to try & see the bullets.
Don't treat it like a cracked egg that will get you dirty. Pick it up strongly... Not in a distasteful , two fingered tentative way.
Don't point it at people. This includes looking down the barrel to try & see the bullets.
ripcurlksm
Member
Pax, do you use a CMS for your site? (Content Management System)
Glockfan.45
member
KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNLESS READY TO FIRE. After that the other 3 rules will serve them well.
If I could only give 1 message to non gun owners about safety it would be to not put your finger on the trigger. After years of tv and movies the first instinct someone has after they pick up a gun is to put their finger on the trigger. Don't pull the trigger, assume its loaded and ready to fire, find someone who knows how to operate it.
I actually disagree with most of you guys on recommending 4 safety rules.
4 safety rules are for people who choose to own and handle firearms. Pax' question is about non-owners. Whether they are non-owners due to their choice, or hoplophobia, or whatever is irrelevant here - they either chose not to learn or haven't had a chance to learn handling skills. I wouldn't expect them to remember 4 rules just because somebody told them about those rules sometime in their lives.
We remember the safety rules because we ingrain them in our brains by consciously exercising these rules every time we touch the gun, and even then, who here hasn't had an ND or near-ND?
I have 15 y.o. son who is very bright and who doesn't have a lot of interest in firearms. Same is with my wife - bright and disinterested in shooting. I trained both of them in gun safety, but I really don't want to find out in a hard way if they still remember all that.
Wrapping up: "If come across an unattended gun, don't be afraid of it, don't touch it, ask amateurs like you not touch it, and go find somebody who knows how to handle it". This way, nobody gets hurt and it presents for a supervised learning opportunity.
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
I agree with YK. I see no reason to teach the 4 rules to someone that doesn't want to shoot or handle guns, because they won't make sense to someone that doesn't care. What is a safe direction? That's a more involved topic than you think, because you have to talk about how almost nothing in a house is bullet proof, that there may be people in the next room, building or neighborhood that are well within range, even with intervening walls and so on.
I see no point in teaching them how to clear a gun, because there are so many different methods, they will never be able to keep them straight, because they simply aren't interested. Don't believe me? How many ways are there to unlock the slide on a pump shotgun? I know of at least four. Add in pump rifles and there is at least 1 more that can be quite dangerous to the uninitiated (hammer must be lowered for slide to come back). Some pistols don't have a slide stop, every brand of revolver has a different means of swinging open the cylinder, if the cylinder even swings open, blah blah blah
Rule 1: Don't touch it unless you absolutely have to.
Rule 2: If you absolutely must move the gun, don't touch the trigger:
Rule 2a: If the gun is holstered or cased, leave it that way to move it.
Rule 3: If you want to learn, ask the owner of the gun to teach you.
I see no point in teaching them how to clear a gun, because there are so many different methods, they will never be able to keep them straight, because they simply aren't interested. Don't believe me? How many ways are there to unlock the slide on a pump shotgun? I know of at least four. Add in pump rifles and there is at least 1 more that can be quite dangerous to the uninitiated (hammer must be lowered for slide to come back). Some pistols don't have a slide stop, every brand of revolver has a different means of swinging open the cylinder, if the cylinder even swings open, blah blah blah
Rule 1: Don't touch it unless you absolutely have to.
Rule 2: If you absolutely must move the gun, don't touch the trigger:
Rule 2a: If the gun is holstered or cased, leave it that way to move it.
Rule 3: If you want to learn, ask the owner of the gun to teach you.
Baba Louie
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A gun, in and of itself, is only a tool. It requires both ammunition and a user to become useful. It's usefulness depends entirely on the user's intent and training. There are three types of guns, typically: Rifles, which are shoulder mounted and have spiral grooving (rifleing) inside the barrel to impart spin which stabilizes the bullet in flight for greater accuracy at longer ranges; shotguns, which are (typically) shoulder mounted and are smoothbored to discharge small pellets called shot in a disperse circular pattern at shorter ranges; and handguns, typically w/ rifled barrels useful at short ranges.
Most new firearms have some form of safety switch on them, with revolvers typically being the exception.
(You could go into greater detail if you desire, but most non-gun owners who have zero firearms in their homes and zero interest in them would probably not care to learn specifics)
Reiterate the Eddie Eagle program should they encounter a firearm.
? Should you offer any advice should they encounter a ner-do-well w/ a firearm... as to movement, cover, range of lethality, etc? I don't know.
All of the above, + where and how they are stored/locked up, safety rules the gun owner practices, not to touch them unless invited (sad that I have to write that) unless you think it wise for them to know how to place each one, or each type, on safe, should they encounter one with the owner away (typically by assuring that the safety is engaged and/or the weapon is unloaded (which would require the firearm owner to educate them. Note: If I were King of the Forest, every Jr high and H.S. student would take a firearm safety class even if they were never around firearms the rest of their lives)
meinbruder
Member
Abby hit the Eddie Eagle program this morning but redneckrepairs hit the nail on the head. Telling someone to “not touch it and find someone who knows what to do with it” is the lowest common denominator of the three questions posed in your post this morning. Any number of scenarios can be imagined where a gun could be encountered and in every case “don’t touch it” is the best advice; this will not offend an adult with no knowledge of firearms.
YK amplified the message with a personal history, family with little or no interest. His story should be the basis of a lesson in training a family member or visitor to a home where guns might be found. Just Don’t Touch It.
I agree with YK and have a similar story. My wife was a non-gun person on our wedding day and now has a snub-nose revolver and sufficient knowledge to use it. To this day, twenty-five years later, she hasn’t enough interest to learn which is which about the rest of the guns in the family arsenal. The same advice is the rule of the house. Don’t Touch It!
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YK amplified the message with a personal history, family with little or no interest. His story should be the basis of a lesson in training a family member or visitor to a home where guns might be found. Just Don’t Touch It.
I agree with YK and have a similar story. My wife was a non-gun person on our wedding day and now has a snub-nose revolver and sufficient knowledge to use it. To this day, twenty-five years later, she hasn’t enough interest to learn which is which about the rest of the guns in the family arsenal. The same advice is the rule of the house. Don’t Touch It!
}
>mike101
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The SKINNY end goes toward the bad guy.
Waitone
Member
Point one--A gun is not a living being. It is machinery.
Point two--A gun is not a free moral agent. It has no will of its own. It is machinery.
Point two--A gun is not a free moral agent. It has no will of its own. It is machinery.
tegemu
Member
That, By and large, licenced/permitted gun owners and carriers, rather than being some sort of dangerous whacko, are responsible, trained, investigated, certified shooters who, because of the responsibility of carrying a gun, are usually calmer, less violent, less dangerous to non BG's than the regular citizen. Most of us will actively avoid the potential of a confrontation rather than causing one.
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