TOADMAN
Member
I like-em all, but can only afford two 45ACPs - a Kimber Pro Carry and a G30...Whats the problem? No worries!! Can't we all get along??
Whats the big deal?
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gc70
Member
There is always a nasty, unstated or thinly-veiled undertone of "what idiot would shoot that type of gun" in these threads.
When I shoot different types of guns, I like them or I don't. Either way, I know why I feel the way I do about a particular gun. I don't have self-esteem problems that make me desperately want to like a particular "in" gun, nor do I need to trash other guns to "prove" the ones I like are superior.
My guns work for me in the situations in which I to use them. Other shooters have different preferences and needs, so I would not expect everyone to like the same guns.
When I shoot different types of guns, I like them or I don't. Either way, I know why I feel the way I do about a particular gun. I don't have self-esteem problems that make me desperately want to like a particular "in" gun, nor do I need to trash other guns to "prove" the ones I like are superior.
My guns work for me in the situations in which I to use them. Other shooters have different preferences and needs, so I would not expect everyone to like the same guns.
JohnBT
Member
"....how many times can this horse be beat?"
Begin counting, now...
Begin counting, now...
I am another one of those that just doesn't see what all the fuss is about. I don't hate 1911s but I am not over impressed by them either. A good one can be accurate but most are nothing special. Reliabilty seems okay but not the best. Capacity is low for a modern gun and the ergos are nothing special either.
If you took just about any gun and put $2000 worth of work into it, I would expect it to shoot. These high dollar 1911s seem to shoot nice but for the money, I would expect them to. I had a nice high dollar Colt Chip McCormick Racer that was very accurate and never jammed. It was a fine pistol that I can't complain about but for $2000, I suspect a nice Beretta 92G with some custom work would shoot just as well or a SIG 210. A SIG 220 would do just as well with a $1000 of extra tuning. For $2000, I think a lot of guns would be just as good or better than a 1911. If you like the grip, good for you but I don't think the grip is all that great.
If you took just about any gun and put $2000 worth of work into it, I would expect it to shoot. These high dollar 1911s seem to shoot nice but for the money, I would expect them to. I had a nice high dollar Colt Chip McCormick Racer that was very accurate and never jammed. It was a fine pistol that I can't complain about but for $2000, I suspect a nice Beretta 92G with some custom work would shoot just as well or a SIG 210. A SIG 220 would do just as well with a $1000 of extra tuning. For $2000, I think a lot of guns would be just as good or better than a 1911. If you like the grip, good for you but I don't think the grip is all that great.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Outdated 1911
Amusing thread...
For all the shouting over the superiority of the "More modern designs"...take a closer look. If it's a recoil-operated pistol with a locked breech and a tilting barrel...guess whose design that is. Thaaaat's right. It's a 1911 under the skin. That includes Glock, Sig, HK-USP, and a host of others.
Whazzat ya say? Beretta 92 Series? That's a real modern one...Right?
Go borrow a Walther P-38...break it down...and see where ol' Pietro swiped his idea.
Why won't the present-day 1911s run? Simple. The manufacturers tossed the blueprints out when the real armorers and assemblers retired, and tried to get away with dumbing it down and cheapening it up...and it didn't work well.
Find an old 1911 that's still in good shape. They're around. It'll run, and it'll keep runnin' in conditions that'll shut most of the "Modern" designs down in short order...and if sand and grit make it stop, you can dunk it in a bucket of fresh water...agitate it for about 15 seconds...shake it dry..and keep on truckin'. Then, when you have time...you can gut the thing in about 2 minutes without tools for a proper cleaning and oiling, and reassemble it...also without tools...in about 3 minutes.
Yeah...Some of'em are downright persnickety. Takes about 20 minutes to get most of'em straightened out...usually with just a good magazine. (There's the other part of the problem.)
Wanna play follow the leader with an outdated old slabsided pistol? Ah'm yuh Huckleberry. Bring your plastic wunderpistol, and lots and LOTS of magazines and ammo. Loser buys the steaks.
Cheers, ya'll!
Amusing thread...
For all the shouting over the superiority of the "More modern designs"...take a closer look. If it's a recoil-operated pistol with a locked breech and a tilting barrel...guess whose design that is. Thaaaat's right. It's a 1911 under the skin. That includes Glock, Sig, HK-USP, and a host of others.
Whazzat ya say? Beretta 92 Series? That's a real modern one...Right?
Go borrow a Walther P-38...break it down...and see where ol' Pietro swiped his idea.
Why won't the present-day 1911s run? Simple. The manufacturers tossed the blueprints out when the real armorers and assemblers retired, and tried to get away with dumbing it down and cheapening it up...and it didn't work well.
Find an old 1911 that's still in good shape. They're around. It'll run, and it'll keep runnin' in conditions that'll shut most of the "Modern" designs down in short order...and if sand and grit make it stop, you can dunk it in a bucket of fresh water...agitate it for about 15 seconds...shake it dry..and keep on truckin'. Then, when you have time...you can gut the thing in about 2 minutes without tools for a proper cleaning and oiling, and reassemble it...also without tools...in about 3 minutes.
Yeah...Some of'em are downright persnickety. Takes about 20 minutes to get most of'em straightened out...usually with just a good magazine. (There's the other part of the problem.)
Wanna play follow the leader with an outdated old slabsided pistol? Ah'm yuh Huckleberry. Bring your plastic wunderpistol, and lots and LOTS of magazines and ammo. Loser buys the steaks.
Cheers, ya'll!
1911WB
Member
Love or hate: 1911s
What Tuner said plus- 1911s are something you either get or don't get. For me it's love- 1911s fit and feel good in my hand, and I shoot them well. Glocks, for example, don't fit me well, and consequently, I don't shoot them as well. that doesn't mean that either one is inherently good or bad. I am often amused by those who post "serious problems" with their 1911s on this and other forums which turn out to be from ammo, mags or extractors, all of which are easy to address (with Tuner's sage advice). Not to say that some pistols don't leave the factory with really serious problems; but in my personal experience of having owned about 30 1911s over the years only two, a Colt Cmdr. LW and a Charles Daly, had serious problems. The Colt finally straightened out (a new Wilson extractor did the trick); the Daly never did work right.
What Tuner said plus- 1911s are something you either get or don't get. For me it's love- 1911s fit and feel good in my hand, and I shoot them well. Glocks, for example, don't fit me well, and consequently, I don't shoot them as well. that doesn't mean that either one is inherently good or bad. I am often amused by those who post "serious problems" with their 1911s on this and other forums which turn out to be from ammo, mags or extractors, all of which are easy to address (with Tuner's sage advice). Not to say that some pistols don't leave the factory with really serious problems; but in my personal experience of having owned about 30 1911s over the years only two, a Colt Cmdr. LW and a Charles Daly, had serious problems. The Colt finally straightened out (a new Wilson extractor did the trick); the Daly never did work right.
CajunBass
Member
I had a Colt 70 series, 45, 1911 a few years ago. It was a darn good gun and I really liked it. I traded it off for some reason or another, I forget why. One of these days, I guess I'll get another one.
JohnBT
Member
"One of his handguns was a Norinco 1911 .45a.c.p. I had never shot a 1911..."
There are those who would say you still haven't.
John
There are those who would say you still haven't.
John
Far be it from me to put down combat tupperware for being what it is. Plenty of modern designs function perfectly and hold lots of rounds. If you can hit your target with one, great! For me, I love the feel of a good single action trigger, and I love the look of an all metal gun. And I can pick up a 1911, bring it up on target and the sights align themselves naturally. The XD comes close in this regard, but still not quite as well as my Colt. Finally, a properly built 1911 will function as reliably and accurately as any modern design on the market. If Glocks and SIGs were made using unskilled labor in third world countries, they may not be perfectly reliable either. If you cheap out with a cheap gun, don't be surprised when it doesn't work properly!
Master Blaster
Member
Perhaps you can tell me what the big deal is about a too big, too expensive plastic pistol, Thats never been issued in quantity to any military worth a puddle of warm spit in the world(please dont tell me that the SOCOM or some other unit has a few of them, its not the same, and they are going back to the 1911). Uses a rubber o ring to maintain accuracy and alignment of the barrel, instead of a reliable metal to metal hard fit. ITs way too big for the round it fires. has a poor trigger like a cheap capgun, and costs as much or more than a good 1911????
A pistol that is never seen in any accuracy sport like bullseye, seldon ever seen in IPSC, IDPA, Bianchi Cup, and is never used by any top competitor in any shooting sport at all.
That right I'm talkin about HK, beloved by internet ninjas the world over.
When the FBI choose a gun for its SWAT teams and HRT across the country they picked a $2000 custom 1911 by Springfield to carry into harms way. When LAPD SWAT picked a gun.... When the SOCOM picked a new gun they also went back to an old friend 1911. When I saw an Israeli Special forces tunnel rat on an interview last year he had a 1911 in his holster, and later in his hand as he led the way into a tunnel filled with the enemy.
1911's are simply the best when you need to hit something dangerous and you need to be fast and accurate, and need 100% reliability.
A pistol that is never seen in any accuracy sport like bullseye, seldon ever seen in IPSC, IDPA, Bianchi Cup, and is never used by any top competitor in any shooting sport at all.
That right I'm talkin about HK, beloved by internet ninjas the world over.
When the FBI choose a gun for its SWAT teams and HRT across the country they picked a $2000 custom 1911 by Springfield to carry into harms way. When LAPD SWAT picked a gun.... When the SOCOM picked a new gun they also went back to an old friend 1911. When I saw an Israeli Special forces tunnel rat on an interview last year he had a 1911 in his holster, and later in his hand as he led the way into a tunnel filled with the enemy.
1911's are simply the best when you need to hit something dangerous and you need to be fast and accurate, and need 100% reliability.
You like potatoes I like potahtos! I love reading this crap. I don't suppose that anyone is using the venerable old bazooka anymore? No? Oh Damn! Face it you are all just arguing a point of who's pecker is the biggest!
All guns go bang if treated right and the difference is preferance only. If you like the x model you'll come up with every stupid reason under the sun to say x is better. I personally do not prefer the 1911 but I certainly won't say it isn't a good gun. The greatest responsibility of opinion is the respect of someone elses. When we as a people cannot tolerate someone elses opinion that lack of respect is called oppression. That statement goes for both sides.
No? Oh Damn! Face it you are all just arguing a point of who's pecker is the biggest! All guns go bang if treated right and the difference is preferance only. If you like the x model you'll come up with every stupid reason under the sun to say x is better. I personally do not prefer the 1911 but I certainly won't say it isn't a good gun. The greatest responsibility of opinion is the respect of someone elses. When we as a people cannot tolerate someone elses opinion that lack of respect is called oppression. That statement goes for both sides.That's because it has been done a hundred times on a hundred different forums. These threads are generally started by someone who isn't a fan of the 1911, yet they can't understand why this platform persist a hundred years after inception.
Dobe
Well said.
These threads are almost always started by the plastic crowd. Its like class envy, penis envy, some kinda envy, but one thing is for sure. Next week, there will be another thread wanting to know "What's So Great About Them 1911's?"
Dobe
It's a good thing some folks don't like the 1911, that leaves more of them for those who do.
After owning various examples for decades I've yet to run across a poor one, but I do stay away from most of the copies. If you have not tried one do so, you may find it works for you or not, but I don't knock what I don't know.
Tried an H&K full sizes .45 for a while and the ergonomics, trigger and dimensions were wrong for me. It's long gone, but the 1911s will be with me until I have to pass them on to the next owner due to my imminent demise.
After owning various examples for decades I've yet to run across a poor one, but I do stay away from most of the copies. If you have not tried one do so, you may find it works for you or not, but I don't knock what I don't know.
Tried an H&K full sizes .45 for a while and the ergonomics, trigger and dimensions were wrong for me. It's long gone, but the 1911s will be with me until I have to pass them on to the next owner due to my imminent demise.
frayluisfan
Member
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I agree with Nutball (hmm...not so sure if that's a good thing. ). Good point about open-mindedness and supporting our buddies.
Dobe--Seems to me that the only ones with a psychological disorder are those who pathologically insist that their pet model is the only one for people who are "serious" about self-defense. Mabye it's just the gun rags I read, but I don't run across too many people saying a given plastic gun is the only way to go, but I do see a couple of prominent voices in the field (and lots of people at the range) who seem convinced that J.M. Browning stands somewhere between Gabriel and Christ Jesus, and anyone who carries anything less than a .45 1911 is an idiot--a .45 XD or Glock won't do, and a 1911 in .38 super or 10mm is pathetically insufficient....No! The *only* acceptable sidearm for self-defense is the 1911 in its original, orthodox caliber (and yes, I'm using "orthodox" on purpose, for all the dogmatic connotations it carries with it.). I'm not any sort of expert, and I have nothing in particular against the 1911s--I just didn't grow up with them, am not really used to them, and have never felt any particular attraction to them. Enjoy shooting my buddy's Kimber, would enjoy owning one, and would certainly feel adequately armed if carrying one, but the neurosis of SOME 1911 fanatics strikes me as bizarre.
I agree with Nutball (hmm...not so sure if that's a good thing.
). Good point about open-mindedness and supporting our buddies. Dobe--Seems to me that the only ones with a psychological disorder are those who pathologically insist that their pet model is the only one for people who are "serious" about self-defense. Mabye it's just the gun rags I read, but I don't run across too many people saying a given plastic gun is the only way to go, but I do see a couple of prominent voices in the field (and lots of people at the range) who seem convinced that J.M. Browning stands somewhere between Gabriel and Christ Jesus, and anyone who carries anything less than a .45 1911 is an idiot--a .45 XD or Glock won't do, and a 1911 in .38 super or 10mm is pathetically insufficient....No! The *only* acceptable sidearm for self-defense is the 1911 in its original, orthodox caliber (and yes, I'm using "orthodox" on purpose, for all the dogmatic connotations it carries with it.). I'm not any sort of expert, and I have nothing in particular against the 1911s--I just didn't grow up with them, am not really used to them, and have never felt any particular attraction to them. Enjoy shooting my buddy's Kimber, would enjoy owning one, and would certainly feel adequately armed if carrying one, but the neurosis of SOME 1911 fanatics strikes me as bizarre.
Perhaps, but I ask you to look at this thread alone. For the most part, it is the "others" which complain about the 1911, not the other way around.
But, if you disagree, wait a week. You'll see another thread..different title, same message.
Check out this one on TFL. This has been going on for about two weeks. Same song, different title. Also note that most 1911 shooters on this thread are not bashing the other platforms. Then look at the one person's posts who started the thread. Follow his post throughout this entire thread.
Its not that I have a problem with anyone voicing their oppinion about any platform. Yet one can't help but wonder what the motives are when repetitiveness becomes redundancy.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208532
But, if you disagree, wait a week. You'll see another thread..different title, same message.
Check out this one on TFL. This has been going on for about two weeks. Same song, different title. Also note that most 1911 shooters on this thread are not bashing the other platforms. Then look at the one person's posts who started the thread. Follow his post throughout this entire thread.
Its not that I have a problem with anyone voicing their oppinion about any platform. Yet one can't help but wonder what the motives are when repetitiveness becomes redundancy.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208532
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JohnBT
Member
"...but I don't run across too many people saying a given plastic gun is the only way to go"
I do and the most often named brand is Glock.
It's déjà vu all over again.
John
I do and the most often named brand is Glock.
It's déjà vu all over again.
John
XDKingslayer
member
Not this again...All it does is get the 1911 crowd all excited and then guys like me who aren't big on them end up getting them upset.
I will say thing though:
You didn't like the grip, and other things of the 1911. The nice thing about the 1911 is that you can change all that to suit your fancy. Don't like your Glock grip angle, you can't change it. Don't like the feel of the thichness of your XD, guess what, you're stuck with it.
They are very versitile and can be changed to fit the shooter. I love polymers, especially my XD, but you have to change to it, there isn't a whole lot you can do to make it fit you, at least not anywhere near the same scale as a 1911.
I think it's a little derogatory to refer to XD's and glocks as "tupperware" so both sides seem equally at fault. If I really wanted to know the specifics then I'd have to e-mail someone like dobe to get the real deal. Most of these threads turn out to be pissing contests. The only reason I don't have a 1911 is the expense to get a good one. For most guns It is what it is but the 1911 seems to be one that you kinda have to experiment with to get it the way you like it and thats fine if it's what you want. I'm guilty of one thing and that is I have a star B in 9mm and as far as I'm aware is identical to a 1911 right? Oh yeah except that it's in a totally insuficient cartridge right? Come on these are just semantics, if you give me a 1911 I'll be proud to take care of it and shoot the hell out of i just like anything else. I'd go shooting with someone no matter what they or I are shooting. I have a smith 10 in .38 spec. because it was my carry piece when I was a crewchief in the army. I'm sure there are plenty of folks who would just love to knock that but I got it because "I" liked it. If someone doesn't like the guns you have then who cares as long as you like it! My friends and I used to have a "rule" that we couldn't get a gun that one of the others had and as a result we've shot some great variety of guns. The rule fell as our collections grew too large but the premise was variety and it was fun! One friend is a fan of anything old and obsolete(webley,nagant,savage autos etc.) Another is all modern(sigs, p99, m9, etc.) And I ended up a blend from old obsolete to the most modern! How fun was that at any trip to the range I could shoot anything from all eras. If you covet one gun above all others maybe you should try eight or ten others perhaps you'll find the next best thing to sliced bread and maybe not but you WILL have fun doing it I assure you!!!! No matter what you prefer just have fun doing it. Someday you can say some "nutball" gave you good advice.
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